GreenHat wrote:heat4life wrote:GreenHat wrote:
You're talking in circles here. You were the one who brought "What if you have to rebuild?" not me.
You're point about players taking longer to develop actually points to drafting players earlier not later. If we need a rotation guy in the future it would be better if he is a third year guy and not a rookie.
Again go back to the original post you quoted:
I was speaking from a win-now position. As long as we are in that mode we are going to be way past the luxury tax without any cap flexibility and one late draft pick wouldn't change that. We will be way over the cap even while the big 3 opt out with the cap holds for Lebron/Wade/Bosh unless we renounce their rights. If you see that happening then we have much bigger problems.
I think you are understanding in circles just for the sake of arguing. Really? A late first round pick in a weak draft (2012)?
You have yet to name a player that is was worth paying luxury tax money with a guaranteed contract and/or risk our cap flexibility in 2014 IF any one, two or all three of the big three bolt.
Here is a list of the players drafted from #27 (Heat slot) and on in 2012 NBA Draft:
Arnett Moultrie
Perry Jones III
Marquis Teague
Festus Ezeli
Jeffery Taylor
Tomáš Satoranský
Bernard James
Jae Crowder
Draymond Green
Orlando Johnson
Quincy Acy
Quincy Miller
Khris Middleton
Will Barton
Tyshawn Taylor
Doron Lamb
Mike Scott
Kim English
Justin Hamilton
Darius Miller
Kevin Murphy
Kostas Papanikolaou
Kyle O'Quinn
İzzet Türkyılmaz
Kris Joseph
Ognjen Kuzmić
Furkan Aldemir
Tornike Shengelia
Darius Johnson-Odom
Tomislav Zubčić
İlkan Karaman
Robbie Hummel
Marcus Denmon
Robert Sacre
Do you see the name of player that would've have played this season? A player that would've played this upcoming season?
If you are going to have any of those players ride the bench a la Varnado, why do it on a guaranteed contract, eliminate roster flexibility, pay a higher tax bill and complicate your cap flexibility in 2014? Don't you think that future first round pick from Philly - or two high 2nd rounder as it looks like now - are more valuable as assets when evaluating the whole situation we are in now and in 2014?
Again you are creating strawmen everywhere.
Once again I bring up the original quote that you quoted:
We are way past the luxury tax line, there is no flexibility with a pick or not.
Having that pick would do nothing to damage that flexibility, unless you consider the ability to sign Juwan Howard flexibility. And yes there are guys there I'd rather have than Juwan Howard.
But that's irrelevant. I wasn't arguing for or against the trade at this time or in the future (in which case I'm sure by 2014 some of those guys pan out)
What I was saying was having a first round pick does not kill any kind of flexibility. The salary on a late first round pick is 1 million dollars. What do you think the cap hold on a minimum salary is? Not to mention the contract is only guaranteed for two years. If you don't like the guy you can let him go for free in time for your ridiculous hypothetical of needing cap flexibility in 2014.
Of course those team options are almost always picked up because its a bargain contract of 3 mil/2yrs at that point.
Just think of the contract like Norris Cole's contract. How much flexibility would we gain if we never had that pick? Nothing.
We are so far over the cap that a 2mil/2year contract has no bearing on our flexibility. We have none. By 2014 that contract is a player option which we could decline if needed. A late first round pick from last year would have no effect on our flexibility.
I'll try this one more time.
Since you are sitting tight on that one quote from the original poster, let me clarify to you that I am speaking of our overall cap situation including 2014 and although yes THIS upcoming off-season we have no cap flexibility, the goal with Riley has always been 2014 flexibility for reasons already discussed.
Now, when I mentioned flexibility, I was also referring to roster in addition to cap. Right now we have a couple of roster spots that are interchangeable. That is how we were able to land Birdman. If we have end of bench rookies with fully guaranteed contracts, you sort of eliminate that roster spot since it would be harder to cut a fully guaranteed contract.
I agree with you in that a rookie worth developing who is able to contribute to the team right away (Chalmers, Cole etc), you gladly draft and take him on your roster with a fully guaranteed commitment. If you take a minute to look over the list of players that were available at #27 in last year's weak draft, can you find a name that would be worth eliminating that flexibility for?
That was my point from the get go. Miami did the right thing in trading the pick, convert it into assets that could be used in a future trade and STILL maintain the 2014 flexibility I am speaking off. Cap, small luxury tax breaks and roster flexibility for now and 2014. I just don't get why you would jeopardize all of that for any of the names on that 2012 draft list.
I just don't want a rival to get Joel 
He's a heat player for life! 
