Harden trade: Safe to call a failure now?

[Edrees]

yes it was a failure. they could have amnestied perkins instead. i dont care who jeremy lamb is he isn't going to be as good as harden

Actually, with harden involved in more plays he could have been taking the ball up the court on the play westbrook got injured. i know its a HUGE what if, but in another dimension where harden didn't get traded, maybe westbrook doesn't get injured.

[OldeBoy]

Not even close, this was a horrible trade for OKC. They basically gave up their shot at having a big three. They might have killed their championship window. Durant and Westbrook are going to have to play out of their minds to win.

They won 60 games this year without him. Durant and Westbrook were the stars that they are, but they didnt play out of their minds. They were favorites to win the West w/ RW and that will continue as long as they got KD and RW.

[EscapoTHB]

This will cost them durant Imo. Presti really screwed up bad.

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[OldeBoy]

yes it was a failure. they could have amnestied perkins instead. i dont care who jeremy lamb is he isn't going to be as good as harden

Actually, with harden involved in more plays he could have been taking the ball up the court on the play westbrook got injured. i know its a HUGE what if, but in another dimension where harden didn't get traded, maybe westbrook doesn't get injured.

Harden in OKC wasnt as good as Harden in Houston. Thunder dont need to replace Houston Harden they need to replace OKC Harden, which wasnt even an all star. If Lamb can develop into a 14 ppg scorer off the bench the Thunder wont have lost much production.

Thats not even considering Reggie Jackson who looks like he can be a double digit scorer off the bench.

Lets say Lamb and Reggie combine for 20 off the bench next year. That will be a production boost from what Harden gave.

[OldeBoy]

This will cost them durant Imo. Presti really screwed up bad.

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With Westbrook and if Ibaka continues to improve where will Durant go that will offer a better core? Especially if you consider continuity, which is huge for a championship run.

[Roxflynorth]

Everybody knows Harden is a good player but nobody knows he is that good. At the time of the trade, it was a fair trade.

[Neutral 123]

Everybody knows Harden is a good player but nobody knows he is that good. At the time of the trade, it was a fair trade.

Nah, there were jokers claiming Martin was better than Harden, and the Lamb would be better than both of them lol... Anyone with any sense knew the trade was terrible and said so right when it happened. This was no surprise at all.

[sanity]

From a talent standpoint, it was an obvious downtrade for OKC. They traded an all-star player at the time for a non-all star + prospects. If OKC didn't have championship aspirations, it would've been a fair trade for them. You don't need to consider long-term when you have Durant and Westbrook under contract. Their window is now.

[DivineFury]

yes it was a failure. they could have amnestied perkins instead. i dont care who jeremy lamb is he isn't going to be as good as harden

Actually, with harden involved in more plays he could have been taking the ball up the court on the play westbrook got injured. i know its a HUGE what if, but in another dimension where harden didn't get traded, maybe westbrook doesn't get injured.

Harden in OKC wasnt as good as Harden in Houston. Thunder dont need to replace Houston Harden they need to replace OKC Harden, which wasnt even an all star. If Lamb can develop into a 14 ppg scorer off the bench the Thunder wont have lost much production.

Thats not even considering Reggie Jackson who looks like he can be a double digit scorer off the bench.

Lets say Lamb and Reggie combine for 20 off the bench next year. That will be a production boost from what Harden gave.

The issue actually was that they were trying too hard to replace Harden, literally. Instead they should of tried to package away Perk and get a quality center like Asik back, instead of going for someone like Kmart and picks.

There was no way Harden was staying. He didn't want to be a 6th man and you can't pay what he wanted to one anyways. The issue was what they got back, and they just made the wrong call. It happens, but can't call this anything but a bad trade from the stand point of OKC.

[OldeBoy]

From a talent standpoint, it was an obvious downtrade for OKC. They traded an all-star player at the time for a non-all star + prospects. If OKC didn't have championship aspirations, it would've been a fair trade for them. You don't need to consider long-term when you have Durant and Westbrook under contract. Their window is now.

Harden was not an allstar in OKC.

Martin is a less talented player, but his production dropoff from Harden is OKC was not big. And the Thunder actually won more games and were more efficient across the board.

[nickforthreee]

Jeremy Lamb will be an All-Star in this league. Quote me on that

[OldeBoy]

yes it was a failure. they could have amnestied perkins instead. i dont care who jeremy lamb is he isn't going to be as good as harden

Actually, with harden involved in more plays he could have been taking the ball up the court on the play westbrook got injured. i know its a HUGE what if, but in another dimension where harden didn't get traded, maybe westbrook doesn't get injured.

Harden in OKC wasnt as good as Harden in Houston. Thunder dont need to replace Houston Harden they need to replace OKC Harden, which wasnt even an all star. If Lamb can develop into a 14 ppg scorer off the bench the Thunder wont have lost much production.

Thats not even considering Reggie Jackson who looks like he can be a double digit scorer off the bench.

Lets say Lamb and Reggie combine for 20 off the bench next year. That will be a production boost from what Harden gave.

The issue actually was that they were trying too hard to replace Harden, literally. Instead they should of tried to package away Perk and get a quality center like Asik back, instead of going for someone like Kmart and picks.

There was no way Harden was staying. He didn't want to be a 6th man and you can't pay what he wanted to one anyways. The issue was what they got back, and they just made the wrong call. It happens, but can't call this anything but a bad trade from the stand point of OKC.

From a talent standpoint the Thunder loss. From a production and efficiency standpoint, they didnt miss a beat.

[Wooderson]

From a talent standpoint, it was an obvious downtrade for OKC. They traded an all-star player at the time for a non-all star + prospects. If OKC didn't have championship aspirations, it would've been a fair trade for them. You don't need to consider long-term when you have Durant and Westbrook under contract. Their window is now.

Harden was not an allstar in OKC.

Martin is a less talented player, but his production dropoff from Harden is OKC was not big. And the Thunder actually won more games and were more efficient across the board.

Harden's ball handling and playmaking are what sets him apart from Martin, and some of that won't show up in the score sheet. I think there are still questions to be answered about how well OKC will perform in the playoffs without that secondary ball-handler (although Durant has and will likely continue to improve tremendously in that regard).

As to the team performance, Durant and Ibaka both made big jumps in efficiency, with Ibaka taking on a larger volume as well. I really doubt their improvement had anything to do with Harden not being on the floor. More like they are young players getting closer to their prime.

Yes OKC improved as a team, but the relevant question is how would they do with Harden instead of Martin. I think they have a chance to win 65+ in the regular season, and at the very least make it to the WCF even if WB gets injured.

[InFlames]

Everybody knows Harden is a good player but nobody knows he is that good. At the time of the trade, it was a fair trade.

Didn't Morey say that according to advanced stats Harden was a top 5 offensive player in the league and that he couldn't believe a player that good and that young was on the block?

[Wooderson]

From a talent standpoint the Thunder loss. From a production and efficiency standpoint, they didnt miss a beat.

They didn't miss a beat because of internal improvement + Martin. I think it's likely that internal improvement + Harden = gaining a beat.

[OldeBoy]

From a talent standpoint the Thunder loss. From a production and efficiency standpoint, they didnt miss a beat.

They didn't miss a beat because of internal improvement + Martin. I think it's likely that internal improvement + Harden = gaining a beat.

Or the Harden contract situation could have been a distaction all year and Harden could have been looking more to pad his stats for his contract vs playing a lesser role to win.

[Effigy]

This will cost them durant Imo. Presti really screwed up bad.

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I agree with this completely.

[OldeBoy]

From a talent standpoint, it was an obvious downtrade for OKC. They traded an all-star player at the time for a non-all star + prospects. If OKC didn't have championship aspirations, it would've been a fair trade for them. You don't need to consider long-term when you have Durant and Westbrook under contract. Their window is now.

Harden was not an allstar in OKC.

Martin is a less talented player, but his production dropoff from Harden is OKC was not big. And the Thunder actually won more games and were more efficient across the board.

Harden's ball handling and playmaking are what sets him apart from Martin, and some of that won't show up in the score sheet. I think there are still questions to be answered about how well OKC will perform in the playoffs without that secondary ball-handler (although Durant has and will likely continue to improve tremendously in that regard).

As to the team performance, Durant and Ibaka both made big jumps in efficiency, with Ibaka taking on a larger volume as well. I really doubt their improvement had anything to do with Harden not being on the floor. More like they are young players getting closer to their prime.

Yes OKC improved as a team, but the relevant question is how would they do with Harden instead of Martin. I think they have a chance to win 65+ in the regular season, and at the very least make it to the WCF even if WB gets injured.

We will never know. Buts its hard to hit the panic mode when they still improved as a team when losing Harden. For the trade to have been the monumental failure people are trying to make it out, they would have had to got worse imo.

[Wooderson]

From a talent standpoint the Thunder loss. From a production and efficiency standpoint, they didnt miss a beat.

They didn't miss a beat because of internal improvement + Martin. I think it's likely that internal improvement + Harden = gaining a beat.

Or the Harden contract situation could have been a distaction all year and Harden could have been looking more to pad his stats for his contract vs playing a lesser role to win.

I really doubt the distraction aspect - the NBA is a business and players know that (plus the fact that all 3 guys on OKC seemed to be pretty tight). And anyway, if these distractions are really a big deal, then wouldn't making a huge move like this just before the season constitute a distraction (plus the fact that Martin also only had one year left?).

As to Harden padding his stats, I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that would have happened. From the sound of it, Harden didn't want to take a pay cut, a reduced role, AND be at risk of being traded (from the report that OKC wouldn't put the 15% trade kicker into the contract). Seems pretty reasonable.

[OldeBoy]

This will cost them durant Imo. Presti really screwed up bad.

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I agree with this completely.

With Westbrook in the fold and if ibaka continues to improve at the rate he has, where would Durant find a better core than that? Especially if you consider continuity?