Harden trade: Safe to call a failure now?

[Sc0pe92]

Now it is

[theokie]

No, the trade was terrible.

So OKC would have been better off letting him go away for nothing? Ya that makes sense.

Its all on the owners for not wanting to give him the max. He was going to a new team regardless because of that.

He was a restricted free agent, he wouldn't have walked for nothing. Waiting would have netted a much better package than Jeremy Lamb and Steve Adams.


Sam Presti made a poor move, and compounded that be extending one of the worst coaches in the league. He's an overrated GM.

He would've walked for nothing had OKC not matched the offer sheet. And trading him on his rookie salary made him more valuable than on a 15 million per year deal. He still would've put up similar numbers.

[LightTheBeam]

LeBron, Durant, Paul, Melo, Kobe, Westbrook, Duncan, Parker, and easily Dwight when he gets his act together.

You are reaching extremely hard on a lot of these players. I would hands down rather have Harden over Melo, Kobe and as much as I love Duncan him as well.

Tier 1 - Lebron
Tier 2 -Durant
Tier 3 - Paul, Westbrook, Harden, Parker, Dwight(when healthy, motivated, and not acting like a clown... so never) and maybe, maybe, Paul George. We will see how Rose comes back from this injury.

To hands down put these tier 3 players ahead of him is crazy. You can't tell me switching out Harden for any ONE player not named Lebron or Durant would make the Rockets better. As far as overall value I think Harden is 3rd really. Crazy to think last year was the 1st season he has had the chance to do his thing, can't imagine this guys ceiling.

OKC's front office really screwed up a good thing, they have proven to be amazing at drafting and absolutely horrible at trading. Kd has no real reason to stay, that team is not contending anytime soon unless Lamb becomes Harden 2.0

Not contending anytime soon? Did they contend this year when they won 60 games and had the #1 seed? They have 2 top 7 players who havent even reached their prime yet. Do teams need 3 allstars to contend nowadays?

They are capped out with the roster they have. Additionally, they have so far been unwilling to pay to retain any of their guys. I don't see them pulling a Miami, Nets, Celtics of the past and going out to sign veterans like Allen, Battier, Korver and countless other guys. Excuse me if I have a problem believing Reggie Jackson can be a 3rd option offensively on a title contender.

They are absolutely unwilling to even get close to the luxury tax. Moreover I don't see players rushing to play with a selfish point guard regardless how good he is. Some of the incentive to signing with teams like Miami is that veterans love to play with Lebron, he makes players much better and the team has a lot of fun.

They are a small market and will continue to act like 1 (trading established talent for youth, not paying the luxury tax, unwilling to resign their own players).

[theokie]

They are capped out with the roster they have. Additionally, they have so far been unwilling to pay to retain any of their guys. I don't see them pulling a Miami, Nets, Celtics of the past and going out to sign veterans like Allen, Battier, Korver and countless other guys. Excuse me if I have a problem believing Reggie Jackson can be a 3rd option offensively on a title contender.

They are absolutely unwilling to even get close to the luxury tax. Moreover I don't see players rushing to play with a selfish point guard regardless how good he is. Some of the incentive to signing with teams like Miami is that veterans love to play with Lebron, he makes players much better and the team has a lot of fun.

They are a small market and will continue to act like 1 (trading established talent for youth, not paying the luxury tax, unwilling to resign their own players).

How close would've OKC gotten to the luxury tax had Harden signed the 4 year/55 million deal?

Oh? 10 million over the luxury tax level? Im curious how that shows that the owners are "absolutely unwilling to even get close to the luxury tax"




And theres no reason why Reggie Jackson can't be the equivalent to what James Harden was for the Thunder during the 2012 Finals run.

Jackson this postseason in his 2nd year in the league.
14-5-4 and 48/30/90

Harden last postseason in his 3rd year in the league.
16-5-3 and 44/41/86

So if Jackson gets the minutes, why exactly is it impossible for him to duplicate what Harden's role was?

[karkinos]

if okc was gonna win, this year was gonna be the year. and winning one ring is all that matters. that opportunity can never come back for okc.
injured dwade, casper bosh, and a weaker bench left miami vulnerable.

if an aging spurs team took the heat to 7, imagine what harden/KD/WB would do. WB wouldn't have gotten injured either since the rockets wouldn't have made the playoffs.

[bondom34]

Its an absolute failure, but not because of the trade, because the owners weren't willing to pony up.

Martin leaving now though has nothing to do with it. Its been reported for 9 months now that he was just a 1 year stop gap, and that he would walk away in free agency. Don't get why everyones acting so surprised.


I don't get why people are already giving up on Lamb just because he didnt get minutes. Reggie Jackson was wearing a suit last postseason, and this postseason he was our second best player at times. OKC is good at drafting and developing players.


If OKC could improve their team after losing Harden, i see no reason why they can't improve their team again after losing Martin.

This exactly. Also, to people who seem to complain about the trade and how terrible Presti is, look around the league at teams that complain about GMs. Jusat as an example, and its recent so I'll use it, Knicks fans (sorry to single out that team, but the trade just happened). The Knicks have paid player after player after player, and where have they gotten? The fans still complain about the GM that spends a ton, you can't have it both ways. Presti didn't pay up, but whatever, as a fan of the team I'd rather know that there's some flexibility in the future, instead of having 3 terrible contracts on a team and then trading to get another. OKC pays their main guys, and makes the system work as best it can. As someone said a few pages back, if you can't understand the simple concept that not all teams can afford to pay millions in tax payments to the league, whatever, I'm done debating.

[LightTheBeam]

LeBron, Durant, Paul, Melo, Kobe, Westbrook, Duncan, Parker, and easily Dwight when he gets his act together.

You are reaching extremely hard on a lot of these players. I would hands down rather have Harden over Melo, Kobe and as much as I love Duncan him as well.

Tier 1 - Lebron
Tier 2 -Durant
Tier 3 - Paul, Westbrook, Harden, Parker, Dwight(when healthy, motivated, and not acting like a clown... so never) and maybe, maybe, Paul George. We will see how Rose comes back from this injury.

To hands down put these tier 3 players ahead of him is crazy. You can't tell me switching out Harden for any ONE player not named Lebron or Durant would make the Rockets better.

I can easily use the counterargument that if you switch Harden with Parker or Duncan, they wouldn't have made the finals. And i definitely wouldn't rather have Harden "hands down" over Melo or Kobe. Is there an argument? Sure. But it's close. Paul George is close as well and I think it goes without saying that a healthy Derrick Rose is also better than Harden. I have no problem with saying Harden is the 9th or 10th best player in the league right now. Considering he's only been the man for one season, it's pretty impressive.

Really... so you are telling me if a team loses their foundation that they have built a whole team around they might now be as good? Why didn't I think of that... Obviously you can't expect things like chemistry and experience to be easily replaced, but if you ask 28 of the other teams who they would rather have for the year, my money would be 50% would take Harden.

Melo is garbage. Ya I said it. That guy is not even a top 10 NBA player. Give me K. Leonard over him 10 out of 10 times. He is an inefficient chucker who is lazy on defense. He will never win an NBA title ever, if i am wrong I will happily sig this conversation and admit I was wrong.

Kobe is the same, only difference is that Kobe can be great when not playing selfish. I realistically don't see anything either do better.. Harden is a better play maker than both, much more efficient all around at scoring, makes his teammates better, (Melo and Kobe make theirs worse, that is not up for debate) Defense they are all pretty below average, he is younger and healthier, gets to the line more often. I literally could go on forever, not to mention that last year was Hardens first year as "the guy" something Kobe and Melo have had the luxury of for awhile now. I fully expect him to refine his game even more next year and cover his weaknesses.

Goes without saying Rose is better? How... Rose is coming off an EXTREMELY serious injury that some players just never recover from, especially players who rely strictly on athleticism such as Rose. I am so tired of people giving him a pass.. Let him come out and prove he can be that same guy again before we start crowing him king please.

[bondom34]

Its an absolute failure, but not because of the trade, because the owners weren't willing to pony up.

Martin leaving now though has nothing to do with it. Its been reported for 9 months now that he was just a 1 year stop gap, and that he would walk away in free agency. Don't get why everyones acting so surprised.


I don't get why people are already giving up on Lamb just because he didnt get minutes. Reggie Jackson was wearing a suit last postseason, and this postseason he was our second best player at times. OKC is good at drafting and developing players.


If OKC could improve their team after losing Harden, i see no reason why they can't improve their team again after losing Martin.

This exactly. Also, to people who seem to complain about the trade and how terrible Presti is, look around the league at teams that complain about GMs. Jusat as an example, and its recent so I'll use it, Knicks fans (sorry to single out that team, but the trade just happened). The Knicks have paid player after player after player, and where have they gotten? The fans still complain about the GM that spends a ton, you can't have it both ways. Presti didn't pay up, but whatever, as a fan of the team I'd rather know that there's some flexibility in the future, instead of having 3 terrible contracts on a team and then trading to get another. OKC pays their main guys, and makes the system work as best it can. As someone said a few pages back, if you can't understand the simple concept that not all teams can afford to pay millions in tax payments to the league, whatever, I'm done debating.

[LightTheBeam]

They are capped out with the roster they have. Additionally, they have so far been unwilling to pay to retain any of their guys. I don't see them pulling a Miami, Nets, Celtics of the past and going out to sign veterans like Allen, Battier, Korver and countless other guys. Excuse me if I have a problem believing Reggie Jackson can be a 3rd option offensively on a title contender.

They are absolutely unwilling to even get close to the luxury tax. Moreover I don't see players rushing to play with a selfish point guard regardless how good he is. Some of the incentive to signing with teams like Miami is that veterans love to play with Lebron, he makes players much better and the team has a lot of fun.

They are a small market and will continue to act like 1 (trading established talent for youth, not paying the luxury tax, unwilling to resign their own players).

How close would've OKC gotten to the luxury tax had Harden signed the 4 year/55 million deal?

Oh? 10 million over the luxury tax level? Im curious how that shows that the owners are "absolutely unwilling to even get close to the luxury tax"




And theres no reason why Reggie Jackson can't be the equivalent to what James Harden was for the Thunder during the 2012 Finals run.

Jackson this postseason in his 2nd year in the league.
14-5-4 and 48/30/90

Harden last postseason in his 3rd year in the league.
16-5-3 and 44/41/86

So if Jackson gets the minutes, why exactly is it impossible for him to duplicate what Harden's role was?

Did they resign Harden? They could have easily Amnestied Perkins, resigned Harden. That is something even OKC fans were hoping for. Then what they would have been 2 maybe 3 million over? Well they did none of the above, so I guess from the proof we have, it is safe to assume they are unwilling to cross that line.

Honestly If you think that Reggie Jackson can replicate what Harden does I wont even validate your argument with a counter argument, I will simply laugh. Good luck with that, all i will say is stats don't always tell the story. If you watched basketball religiously you would understand that and not even ask such a silly question. Reggie Jackson replicating Harden! Why can't Tyreke be the next Lebron, he put up 20-5-5 his rookie season!!

[theokie]

How close would've OKC gotten to the luxury tax had Harden signed the 4 year/55 million deal?

Oh? 10 million over the luxury tax level? Im curious how that shows that the owners are "absolutely unwilling to even get close to the luxury tax"




And theres no reason why Reggie Jackson can't be the equivalent to what James Harden was for the Thunder during the 2012 Finals run.

Jackson this postseason in his 2nd year in the league.
14-5-4 and 48/30/90

Harden last postseason in his 3rd year in the league.
16-5-3 and 44/41/86

So if Jackson gets the minutes, why exactly is it impossible for him to duplicate what Harden's role was?

Did they resign Harden? They could have easily Amnestied Perkins, resigned Harden. That is something even OKC fans were hoping for. Then what they would have been 2 maybe 3 million over? Well they did none of the above, so I guess from the proof we have, it is safe to assume they are unwilling to cross that line.

Honestly If you think that Reggie Jackson can replicate what Harden does I wont even validate your argument with a counter argument, I will simply laugh. Good luck with that, all i will say is stats don't always tell the story. If you watched basketball religiously you would understand that and not even ask such a silly question. Reggie Jackson replicating Harden! Why can't Tyreke be the next Lebron, he put up 20-5-5 his rookie season!!

You're either blatantly ignoring everything i wrote or it all just went over your head.

[LightTheBeam]

How close would've OKC gotten to the luxury tax had Harden signed the 4 year/55 million deal?

Oh? 10 million over the luxury tax level? Im curious how that shows that the owners are "absolutely unwilling to even get close to the luxury tax"




And theres no reason why Reggie Jackson can't be the equivalent to what James Harden was for the Thunder during the 2012 Finals run.

Jackson this postseason in his 2nd year in the league.
14-5-4 and 48/30/90

Harden last postseason in his 3rd year in the league.
16-5-3 and 44/41/86

So if Jackson gets the minutes, why exactly is it impossible for him to duplicate what Harden's role was?

Did they resign Harden? They could have easily Amnestied Perkins, resigned Harden. That is something even OKC fans were hoping for. Then what they would have been 2 maybe 3 million over? Well they did none of the above, so I guess from the proof we have, it is safe to assume they are unwilling to cross that line.

Honestly If you think that Reggie Jackson can replicate what Harden does I wont even validate your argument with a counter argument, I will simply laugh. Good luck with that, all i will say is stats don't always tell the story. If you watched basketball religiously you would understand that and not even ask such a silly question. Reggie Jackson replicating Harden! Why can't Tyreke be the next Lebron, he put up 20-5-5 his rookie season!!

You're either blatantly ignoring everything i wrote or it all just went over your head.

Maybe you don't understand what I said. Sure Reggie Jackson can score and put up stats, but is he the player Harden was? Can you rely on him to come in and lead the team when Durant and Westbrook need a rest? Can he come in and make all other 4 players on the court better while he is playing? Obviously not. Ya ya ya he can duplicate the "role" Harden was in, but truthfully he can't. Another thing just replicating the role Harden has still would not be good enough, and it was not good enough in 2012 either.

Listen I am not rooting against the Thunder in anyway. I really like their team and players. As a fan of the Kings I love seeing small market teams succeed. Unfortunately, I am also a realist and realize Thunders best chance was in 2012. Durant has recently signed with Jay-Z who will constantly be in his ear telling him to go to BK or another large market.

Furthermore Durant's body language and facial expressions in the playoffs was not something I would be excited about for the future. I anticipate him taking the Lebron approach and most likely heading to team up with 2 other All stars in Chicago, Brooklyn, New York, maybe Boston or Lakers by then. For the sake of basketball I hope I am wrong, but I just don't see it happening any differently.

[OldeBoy]

Did they resign Harden? They could have easily Amnestied Perkins, resigned Harden. That is something even OKC fans were hoping for. Then what they would have been 2 maybe 3 million over? Well they did none of the above, so I guess from the proof we have, it is safe to assume they are unwilling to cross that line.

Honestly If you think that Reggie Jackson can replicate what Harden does I wont even validate your argument with a counter argument, I will simply laugh. Good luck with that, all i will say is stats don't always tell the story. If you watched basketball religiously you would understand that and not even ask such a silly question. Reggie Jackson replicating Harden! Why can't Tyreke be the next Lebron, he put up 20-5-5 his rookie season!!

You're either blatantly ignoring everything i wrote or it all just went over your head.

Maybe you don't understand what I said. Sure Reggie Jackson can score and put up stats, but is he the player Harden was? Can you rely on him to come in and lead the team when Durant and Westbrook need a rest? Can he come in and make all other 4 players on the court better while he is playing? Obviously not. Ya ya ya he can duplicate the "role" Harden was in, but truthfully he can't. Another thing just replicating the role Harden has still would not be good enough, and it was not good enough in 2012 either.

Listen I am not rooting against the Thunder in anyway. I really like their team and players. As a fan of the Kings I love seeing small market teams succeed. Unfortunately, I am also a realist and realize Thunders best chance was in 2012. Durant has recently signed with Jay-Z who will constantly be in his ear telling him to go to BK or another large market.

Furthermore Durant's body language and facial expressions in the playoffs was not something I would be excited about for the future. I anticipate him taking the Lebron approach and most likely heading to team up with 2 other All stars in Chicago, Brooklyn, New York, maybe Boston or Lakers by then. For the sake of basketball I hope I am wrong, but I just don't see it happening any differently.

Martin couldnt do any of those things either, yet they won 60 games and were favored to win the west b4 RW got hurt. They improved as a team.

Its not about replacing what Harden is doing in Houston. Its about getting the production he had in OKC. I believe Jackson and Lamb are capable of doing that.

Also in 3 years Westbrook may be a top 3 player in the league and Ibaka has 15/10 potential to go along with a 4 block a game league leader. Dont see a better core than that coming along especially if you consider continuity.

[Blame Rasho]

Adams is going to dominate... ROY.... he will more than fill Harden's spot....

Not really....

The Thunder were hamstrung by their owners... they did a deal and it didn't work out. If they had different owners with bigger pocket books this wouldn't be an issue.

It is what it is...

[Seccci]

Well, if im GM of team with another Top 10 player, im clearing capspace for when Durant ( or heck even westbrook) has his contract expiring( or termination option), such is the failure of this trade.
its not about what value they got or not, the problem is what it shows to durant or westbrook. i think i dont need to explain what trading your friend and one of top players on the team when u come fresh of finals battle together means.

if u dont show loyalty to your players, how do you expect them to show it back when their time to make decisions is?

[OldeBoy]

Well, if im GM of team with another Top 10 player, im clearing capspace for when Durant ( or heck even westbrook) has his contract expiring( or termination option), such is the failure of this trade.
its not about what value they got or not, the problem is what it shows to durant or westbrook. i think i dont need to explain what trading your friend and one of top players on the team when u come fresh of finals battle together means.

if u dont show loyalty to your players, how do you expect them to show it back when their time to make decisions is?

From what I understand, KD and RW were less than pleased with Harden that he wouldnt take slightly less money to stay and try and build something special.

The Thunder are on the Spurs model, and their success has been helped a lot by their core guys taking a little less money to stay together. Harden wanted no part of that.

To have these super teams, you obviously have to be willing to pay up, but you also have to have your stars work with you a little as well.

[MaxRider]

Well, if im GM of team with another Top 10 player, im clearing capspace for when Durant ( or heck even westbrook) has his contract expiring( or termination option), such is the failure of this trade.
its not about what value they got or not, the problem is what it shows to durant or westbrook. i think i dont need to explain what trading your friend and one of top players on the team when u come fresh of finals battle together means.

if u dont show loyalty to your players, how do you expect them to show it back when their time to make decisions is?

From what I understand, KD and RW were less than pleased with Harden that he wouldnt take slightly less money to stay and try and build something special.

The Thunder are on the Spurs model, and their success has been helped a lot by their core guys taking a little less money to stay together. Harden wanted no part of that.

To have these super teams, you obviously have to be willing to pay up, but you also have to have your stars work with you a little as well.

hard to ask harden to take less than the max when durant and westbrook both got the max
and perkins getting way too much money

[Tumakapac713]

You are reaching extremely hard on a lot of these players. I would hands down rather have Harden over Melo, Kobe and as much as I love Duncan him as well.

Tier 1 - Lebron
Tier 2 -Durant
Tier 3 - Paul, Westbrook, Harden, Parker, Dwight(when healthy, motivated, and not acting like a clown... so never) and maybe, maybe, Paul George. We will see how Rose comes back from this injury.

To hands down put these tier 3 players ahead of him is crazy. You can't tell me switching out Harden for any ONE player not named Lebron or Durant would make the Rockets better.

I can easily use the counterargument that if you switch Harden with Parker or Duncan, they wouldn't have made the finals. And i definitely wouldn't rather have Harden "hands down" over Melo or Kobe. Is there an argument? Sure. But it's close. Paul George is close as well and I think it goes without saying that a healthy Derrick Rose is also better than Harden. I have no problem with saying Harden is the 9th or 10th best player in the league right now. Considering he's only been the man for one season, it's pretty impressive.

Really... so you are telling me if a team loses their foundation that they have built a whole team around they might now be as good? Why didn't I think of that... Obviously you can't expect things like chemistry and experience to be easily replaced, but if you ask 28 of the other teams who they would rather have for the year, my money would be 50% would take Harden.

Melo is garbage. Ya I said it. That guy is not even a top 10 NBA player. Give me K. Leonard over him 10 out of 10 times. He is an inefficient chucker who is lazy on defense. He will never win an NBA title ever, if i am wrong I will happily sig this conversation and admit I was wrong.

Kobe is the same, only difference is that Kobe can be great when not playing selfish. I realistically don't see anything either do better.. Harden is a better play maker than both, much more efficient all around at scoring, makes his teammates better, (Melo and Kobe make theirs worse, that is not up for debate) Defense they are all pretty below average, he is younger and healthier, gets to the line more often. I literally could go on forever, not to mention that last year was Hardens first year as "the guy" something Kobe and Melo have had the luxury of for awhile now. I fully expect him to refine his game even more next year and cover his weaknesses.

Goes without saying Rose is better? How... Rose is coming off an EXTREMELY serious injury that some players just never recover from, especially players who rely strictly on athleticism such as Rose. I am so tired of people giving him a pass.. Let him come out and prove he can be that same guy again before we start crowing him king please.

Really... so you are telling me that 50% of the teams would choose Harden over TD and Parker and then saying he's clearly better than Duncan? That makes sense. Parker's been a top 5-10 player for the last 2 seasons now and Duncan had an amazing year and is the anchor of the Spurs defense. I unapologetically take both over Harden, though it's not a landslide.

Carmelo might not create for his teammates like Harden but that's not his role. Harden brings the ball up and his job is to create for himself and others. You can't blame Carmelo for not doing that when his role is to score. If you put Carmelo on Houston, they still make the playoffs as a low seed. The Knicks don't win 54 games with Harden on the team instead of Melo. Kobe had his most efficient year in a while and I do consider a player's entire body of work when comparing them to their peers.

If you read what I wrote, you'd see I said that if Rose is healthy, he's easily better than Harden. Nobody's "crowning him king." It's just a fact that he's a better player when healthy.

Lastly, you're making it as if I'm saying Harden isn't even in the top 20. He's a top 10 player, I'd just take the guys I listed over him. Enough of the thread hijacking, let's get back to the topic.

[NamelessHero]

Carmelo might not create for his teammates like Harden but that's not his role. Harden brings the ball up and his job is to create for himself and others. You can't blame Carmelo for not doing that when his role is to score. If you put Carmelo on Houston, they still make the playoffs as a low seed. The Knicks don't win 54 games with Harden on the team instead of Melo. Kobe had his most efficient year in a while and I do consider a player's entire body of work when comparing them to their peers.

you are way too heavily relying on outdated classic statistic measures to judge players performance...Harden is a team player while Kobe is not...and that is huge ...it cant be captured in numbers...Kobe is almost noncoachable while Harden is highly coachable...again this is huge....and basketball is a TEAM SPORT....and thats why Harden led a bunch of nobodys to playoffs while Kobe almost missed playoffs playing with 3 other HOFS and by far the best center in the league while burying himself to the ground and getting seriously injured...that is not efficient in my book(dont mention injuries because were he not the cancer in the lockeroom there wouldnt be so much injuries its is well known that bad atmosphere is conducive to injuries)

cmon theres almost nobody who is even a great role player on houston(only 2-3 players were starters for a single year in nba) and they would be even thought worse of where it not for harden to actually pass them the ball give them the touches and instill the confidence that they may actually play great...
neither Kobe nor Carmelo would led them to the playoffs..... they were the youngest team and the most experienced player i think was a starter only for a 2 years or so...bunch of rookies and nobodys and compare that to NY and LAL rosters....

[Boneman2]

OKC jumped the gun. Regardless, they would've ran into the same scenario with another team. When teams are aware you have no intentions of resigning somebody, said player's trade value usually takes a hit.

It was just a poorly executed transaction on OKC's part. Make no mistake a transaction was imminent, but how they handled it determined the value in return.

Can't really say Westbrook and Durant receiving the max was a bad move on their part. It's really amazing how they drafted all this elite talent.

I

[Chalky White]

Well, if im GM of team with another Top 10 player, im clearing capspace for when Durant ( or heck even westbrook) has his contract expiring( or termination option), such is the failure of this trade.
its not about what value they got or not, the problem is what it shows to durant or westbrook. i think i dont need to explain what trading your friend and one of top players on the team when u come fresh of finals battle together means.

if u dont show loyalty to your players, how do you expect them to show it back when their time to make decisions is?

From what I understand, KD and RW were less than pleased with Harden that he wouldnt take slightly less money to stay and try and build something special.

The Thunder are on the Spurs model, and their success has been helped a lot by their core guys taking a little less money to stay together. Harden wanted no part of that.

To have these super teams, you obviously have to be willing to pay up, but you also have to have your stars work with you a little as well.

This is a flat out bold faced lie with no supporting evidence. The night Harden was traded, Durants response was, and I quote: "Wow". Moreover, not only was Harden willing to take a pay cut(54 million vs. the Max contract he's obviously worth), but he was also willing to come off the bench for the betterment of the team.

The Thunder are not on the Spurs model, and the only people telling themselves such are Thunder stans. San Antonio invested in a brilliant coach, and they never traded Manu for roster "flexibility". San Antonio is run brilliantly through and through, OKC is just cheap.