BREAKING **** NEWS: Deal #done Knicks acquire Bargnani

[ibraheim718]

just because indiana beat us in the playoffs doesn't mean they'll definitely be a better seed then us. i mean, why weren't they a better seed last year then ? it just doesn't work like that. until these teams get out on the court, who knows. people forget, we were actually neck and neck with miami for the 1 seed for awhile. you can't assume this stuff.

Don't do it to yourself... I see you already trying to convince yourself to like this move. Stick with your gut reaction man.. it's looking out for your well being Grunwald isn't.

[bigfnjoe96]

just because indiana beat us in the playoffs doesn't mean they'll definitely be a better seed then us. i mean, why weren't they a better seed last year then ? it just doesn't work like that. until these teams get out on the court, who knows. people forget, we were actually neck and neck with miami for the 1 seed for awhile. you can't assume this stuff.

Welcome to the Darkside....

[Context]

How many put backs will Hibbert and West have to get before you realize it's a bad idea?

Acknowledge that Bargs is a very good man to man defender before we continue- I willing to have a discussion with u but only if u will be level headed bro...

It doesn't matter if he doesn't rebound. You're suggesting that we are going to counter the best rebounding team in the NBA by putting in a guy who is the worst rebounding forward maybe in the history of the game. It doesn't matter if you play good defense if you can't get possession of the ball.

This guy doesn't block out, doesn't try and you're going to have guys flying in from every direction getting extra possessions. And what you are saying is it doesn't matter because he is going to own David West - which he won't. Look at what he did against Indiana last year. 4 games 31 minutes 1.8 rebounds per game. WTF is that?

Can Tyson and Melo rebound? And as great as Indy was at rebounding where did that get them against Miami? And that's my main issue with ur stance on Bargs. All you acknowledge are his weaknesses but refuse to acknowledge his strengths like"man to man defense". Still waiting for u to show some "debating integrity"

[god shammgod]

just because indiana beat us in the playoffs doesn't mean they'll definitely be a better seed then us. i mean, why weren't they a better seed last year then ? it just doesn't work like that. until these teams get out on the court, who knows. people forget, we were actually neck and neck with miami for the 1 seed for awhile. you can't assume this stuff.

Don't do it to yourself... I see you already trying to convince yourself to like this move. Stick with your gut reaction man.. it's looking out for your well being Grunwald isn't.

i don't like it. i'm just talking about the seeding.

[johnnywishbone]

just because indiana beat us in the playoffs doesn't mean they'll definitely be a better seed then us. i mean, why weren't they a better seed last year then ? it just doesn't work like that. until these teams get out on the court, who knows. people forget, we were actually neck and neck with miami for the 1 seed for awhile. you can't assume this stuff.

Yeah but we know it's Indiana, Chicago, Nets and Miami that we are competing against. All those teams are going to be good defensively and they can rebound.

[Thugger HBC]

just because indiana beat us in the playoffs doesn't mean they'll definitely be a better seed then us. i mean, why weren't they a better seed last year then ? it just doesn't work like that. until these teams get out on the court, who knows. people forget, we were actually neck and neck with miami for the 1 seed for awhile. you can't assume this stuff.

My only thing is when you're solid on the side that matters most, you can always improvise on the other.

It cannot be just one player thinking defense.

I've seen quite a few post of "if Tyson did his job".

I guarantee Tyson does not think his job is cover three position, absorb double the amount of rim attempts than anyone else in the league, and rebound for both forward position too.

The move makes it harder to defend the opponent with hope of efficient scoring.

[moocow007]

For those that are hating this poor guy and pulling all sorts of advanced stats out of your pie hole to back it up...

There was a point when Stephon Marbury was on the Knicks that some advanced stat guy actually said that Royal Ivey had better advanced stats and therefore should be playing as minutes as Marbury was...and even suggested that the Knicks trade for Ivey so they can start him instead of Marbury (no, he never saw Ivey play). This stat head also HATED Marbury obviously. I chuckled then and it always stuck with me. Now by no means am I comparing Bargnani to Marbury and Novak to Royal Ivey (the only similarities are the unabridged hate both guys seem to have with many Knick fans) but sometimes advanced stats doesn't tell the whole story.

Same with the other analogy I have made on several occasions (this one from a baseball standpoint)...

I remember arguing with another stat head to death about why Alfonso Soriano (baseball fans would know who I'm talking about) was a MUCH BETTER prospect and MUCH MORE likely to be productive in the majors than another prospect that the Yankees had at the time named D'Angelo Jiminez (baseball fans would not likely know who this is).

No matter how much I argued that Soriano was more likely to succeed (despite inferior advanced stats in the minors) because of how fast he's able to generate bat speed and how great a runner he was and just how explosive overall he was at the time, there was no winning. All I got was Jiminez mind-boggling advance stat this or that and how Jiminez would be the next Barry Larkin and that Soriano would never be able to hit major league pitching. I remember pressing him about whether he actually watched either player play (I did, quite extensively) and he said "no, I didn't have to" lol. Do you believe that? Truth.

So for those looking too hard at advanced stats...step back a little. It's not the end all be all of things.

When did FG%, rebounds and games played become an advanced stat?

I'm talking about the efficiency numbers talk.

[moocow007]

just because indiana beat us in the playoffs doesn't mean they'll definitely be a better seed then us. i mean, why weren't they a better seed last year then ? it just doesn't work like that. until these teams get out on the court, who knows. people forget, we were actually neck and neck with miami for the 1 seed for awhile. you can't assume this stuff.

Yeah but we know it's Indiana, Chicago, Nets and Miami that we are competing against. All those teams are going to be good defensively and they can rebound.

So who should the Knicks have traded that great package that they traded to Toronto for that would help?

[Context]

I said that??? Don't think so. I had them going to the ECF.

viewtopic.php?f=24&p=33343090

So, you think Bargnani puts us over Miami, Indy, Chicago, and the Nets?

With everything that I know now about Bargs. My answer to your question is. It depends on TYSON's ability to recognize what his role needs to be...

What is this "role" stuff, playoff is about the TEAM contribution.

The Pacers dont win without Lance getting his number of boards, but I guess that was hibberts job only.

This role stuff is my reference to the whispers of Tyson wanting to score more... Tyson now needs to focus on defense and rebounding...

[Rasho Brezec]

Some of you need to get with the times... Basketball has CHANGED. This Knick team got the best 27 year old stretch 4 with the highest ceiling that was available. Tyson can now have more 20 rebound games...it's about balance...

The Pacers run a traditional lineup and still wiped the floor against our small ball team.

What series did you watch bro? just imagine west or Hibb constantly getting pump faked and driven on by Bargs- compound that with Melo dropping 39 and they don't look so mighty...

Imagine them killing us on the boards and winning because they get to have 10 more possesions per game than we. Because that's what's going to happen.

[Thugger HBC]

Acknowledge that Bargs is a very good man to man defender before we continue- I willing to have a discussion with u but only if u will be level headed bro...

It doesn't matter if he doesn't rebound. You're suggesting that we are going to counter the best rebounding team in the NBA by putting in a guy who is the worst rebounding forward maybe in the history of the game. It doesn't matter if you play good defense if you can't get possession of the ball.

This guy doesn't block out, doesn't try and you're going to have guys flying in from every direction getting extra possessions. And what you are saying is it doesn't matter because he is going to own David West - which he won't. Look at what he did against Indiana last year. 4 games 31 minutes 1.8 rebounds per game. WTF is that?

Can Tyson and Melo rebound? And as great as Indy was at rebounding where did that get them against Miami? And that's my main issue with ur stance on Bargs. All you acknowledge are his weaknesses but refuse to acknowledge his strengths like"man to man defense". Still waiting for u to show some "debating integrity"

We dont play man defense...we switch, so it's hard to give credit to something we wont utilize anyway.

[god shammgod]

just because indiana beat us in the playoffs doesn't mean they'll definitely be a better seed then us. i mean, why weren't they a better seed last year then ? it just doesn't work like that. until these teams get out on the court, who knows. people forget, we were actually neck and neck with miami for the 1 seed for awhile. you can't assume this stuff.

Yeah but we know it's Indiana, Chicago, Nets and Miami that we are competing against. All those teams are going to be good defensively and they can rebound.

i don't know about the nets being that good defensively. but those other teams were better at that last year too. and we were the 2nd seed. i mean,that's why they play the games. i don't even know what this has to do with bargs. i must have missed something.

[moocow007]

The Pacers run a traditional lineup and still wiped the floor against our small ball team.

What series did you watch bro? just imagine west or Hibb constantly getting pump faked and driven on by Bargs- compound that with Melo dropping 39 and they don't look so mighty...

Imagine them killing us on the boards and winning because they get to have 10 more possesion per game than we. Because that's what's going to happen.

And that would have changed if Novak was on the floor? Imagine them winning because they get to have 10 more possessions per game than we do and not have to worry about anyone scoring on them but Carmelo Anthony.

[Thugger HBC]

With everything that I know now about Bargs. My answer to your question is. It depends on TYSON's ability to recognize what his role needs to be...

What is this "role" stuff, playoff is about the TEAM contribution.

The Pacers dont win without Lance getting his number of boards, but I guess that was hibberts job only.

This role stuff is my reference to the whispers of Tyson wanting to score more... Tyson no needs to focus on defense and rebounding...

You gotta give dogs some bones to play with, no dog guards the house just out of pure loyalty.

Tyson should be involved in the offense, what ever it takes to keep his attention defense up.

[johnnywishbone]

Can Tyson and Melo rebound? And as great as Indy was at rebounding where did that get them against Miami? And that's my main issue with ur stance on Bargs. All you acknowledge are his weaknesses but refuse to acknowledge his strengths like"man to man defense". Still waiting for u to show some "debating integrity"

They need help big time. And what the Knicks are saying is here is your help Andrea. It's dumb.

And what the hell is debating integrity anyway? I said it doesn't matter if you are good man to man defensively (which we will see about) if you can't rebound. You haven't played defense until you rebound the ball. That's the way it works.

Look at his simple rating: http://www.82games.com/1213/1213TOR.HTM

-5.1 net. He doesn't bring it. That's why the Raptor's fans are all laughing their heads off at us.

I hope I'm wrong but I see him getting benched. I don't think Woody will be able to stand him.

[moocow007]

It's still the same old song..

When someone proposed trading that poo package for someone good...the same group that is caboshing the Bargnani trade would chime in with "lol no one is going to trade anyone good for that poo poo platter".

But if they trade that poo package for someone like Bargnani...the same group chimes in with the "they should have traded that package for something good".

[god shammgod]

i don't like bargs. but he's gonna take the copeland/novak minutes. those guys sucked defensively too. which is why i keep saying, just make your 3s. that's all those other guys did.

[ibraheim718]

With everything that I know now about Bargs. My answer to your question is. It depends on TYSON's ability to recognize what his role needs to be...

What is this "role" stuff, playoff is about the TEAM contribution.

The Pacers dont win without Lance getting his number of boards, but I guess that was hibberts job only.

This role stuff is my reference to the whispers of Tyson wanting to score more... Tyson no needs to focus on defense and rebounding...

You're wrong... Tyson is the horse that does all the heavy lifting and to keep your horses happy you have to feed them some hay (occasional touches) or your horses get tired of doing all the heavy lifting.

[Thugger HBC]

If anything was learned in these playoffs.....

Seeding is irrelevant...matchups are everything.

If you're fortunate enough to get out of the first round...your next opponent can beat you in your building.

Miami recovered three times from that because they can return the favor.

A team with little emphasis on defense will not have such luck.

[kNicksGmen]

we try to involve tyson in the offense and he fumbles easy catch and finish dunks, he has horrible hands.

can everyone please stop acting like the pacers series wasn't close. both teams scored the exact same amount of points in the series. the difference was they won the 2 close games, while the other 4 games were blowouts 1 way or the other. imagine if melo was healthy and shot closer to his season average? or tyson and JR didn't crap the bed. a few more made shots and the knicks win that series.