BREAKING **** NEWS: Deal #done Knicks acquire Bargnani

[moocow007]

Can Tyson and Melo rebound? And as great as Indy was at rebounding where did that get them against Miami? And that's my main issue with ur stance on Bargs. All you acknowledge are his weaknesses but refuse to acknowledge his strengths like"man to man defense". Still waiting for u to show some "debating integrity"

They need help big time. And what the Knicks are saying is here is your help Andrea. It's dumb.

And what the hell is debating integrity anyway? I said it doesn't matter if you are good man to man defensively (which we will see about) if you can't rebound. You haven't played defense until you rebound the ball. That's the way it works.

Look at his simple rating: http://www.82games.com/1213/1213TOR.HTM

-5.1 net. He doesn't bring it. That's why the Raptor's fans are all laughing their heads off at us.

I hope I'm wrong but I see him getting benched. I don't think Woody will be able to stand him.

And they'll be bitching and whining once they see what the players they got does and realize that that 1st round pick that they are mindlessly getting giddy about as a possible lottery pick actually has a swap on it. We've had at least 3 Raptor fans who came in to gloat that not only didn't realize that Novak stinks, that he has 3 years left on his contract but also that that 1st round pick of the KNicks, should the KNicks stink is going to Denver not them.

[Context]

It doesn't matter if he doesn't rebound. You're suggesting that we are going to counter the best rebounding team in the NBA by putting in a guy who is the worst rebounding forward maybe in the history of the game. It doesn't matter if you play good defense if you can't get possession of the ball.

This guy doesn't block out, doesn't try and you're going to have guys flying in from every direction getting extra possessions. And what you are saying is it doesn't matter because he is going to own David West - which he won't. Look at what he did against Indiana last year. 4 games 31 minutes 1.8 rebounds per game. WTF is that?

Can Tyson and Melo rebound? And as great as Indy was at rebounding where did that get them against Miami? And that's my main issue with ur stance on Bargs. All you acknowledge are his weaknesses but refuse to acknowledge his strengths like"man to man defense". Still waiting for u to show some "debating integrity"

We dont play man defense...we switch, so it's hard to give credit to something we wont utilize anyway.

So when west has the ball in an iOS situation against Bargs we r going to switch?

[bigfnjoe96]

It's still the same old song..

When someone proposed trading that poo package for someone good...the same group that is caboshing the Bargnani trade would chime in with "lol no one is going to trade anyone good for that poo poo platter".

But if they trade that poo package for someone like Bargnani...the same group chimes in with the "they should have traded that package for something good".

Real GM @ it's finest Moo. Some people will never be sastified

[johnnywishbone]

just because indiana beat us in the playoffs doesn't mean they'll definitely be a better seed then us. i mean, why weren't they a better seed last year then ? it just doesn't work like that. until these teams get out on the court, who knows. people forget, we were actually neck and neck with miami for the 1 seed for awhile. you can't assume this stuff.

Yeah but we know it's Indiana, Chicago, Nets and Miami that we are competing against. All those teams are going to be good defensively and they can rebound.

i don't know about the nets being that good defensively. but those other teams were better at that last year too. and we were the 2nd seed. i mean,that's why they play the games. i don't even know what this has to do with bargs. i must have missed something.

I thought you were saying we might not even play Indiana in the playoffs but I'm just saying that if not them in the second round it will be the Bulls, Nets or Heat. So sort of out of the frying pan into the fryer.

[moocow007]

i don't like bargs. but he's gonna take the copeland/novak minutes. those guys sucked defensively too. which is why i keep saying, just make your 3s. that's all those other guys did.

Yeah. I'm not a Bargnani fan but this silly silly silly 300+ page argument about how Bargnani doesn't play defense or rebound fail to realize that the players/minutes/roles that he'd theoretically be replacing plays even worse defense.

And like I posted, you have the bitching about how Bargnani isn't good enough of a get from the same group that shot down every trade idea for pretty much that same package for better guys buy saying no one is going to trade anyone good for that type of package.

[Thugger HBC]

Can Tyson and Melo rebound? And as great as Indy was at rebounding where did that get them against Miami? And that's my main issue with ur stance on Bargs. All you acknowledge are his weaknesses but refuse to acknowledge his strengths like"man to man defense". Still waiting for u to show some "debating integrity"

We dont play man defense...we switch, so it's hard to give credit to something we wont utilize anyway.

So when west has the ball in an iOS situation against Bargs we r going to switch?

You're assuming that Barganani will be on West at the point of catch, i'm saying with the Knicks switching...he wont be.

[johnnywishbone]

What is this "role" stuff, playoff is about the TEAM contribution.

The Pacers dont win without Lance getting his number of boards, but I guess that was hibberts job only.

This role stuff is my reference to the whispers of Tyson wanting to score more... Tyson no needs to focus on defense and rebounding...

You're wrong... Tyson is the horse that does all the heavy lifting and to keep your horses happy you have to feed them some hay (occasional touches) or your horses get tired of doing all the heavy lifting.

Especially when you have guys who don't play defense waisting possessions with contested jump shots. Same thing two years in a row.

[Context]

What is this "role" stuff, playoff is about the TEAM contribution.

The Pacers dont win without Lance getting his number of boards, but I guess that was hibberts job only.

This role stuff is my reference to the whispers of Tyson wanting to score more... Tyson no needs to focus on defense and rebounding...

You gotta give dogs some bones to play with, no dog guards the house just out of pure loyalty.

Tyson should be involved in the offense, what ever it takes to keep his attention defense up.

Hell get his bone if he stops whining, play his role, and stop showing his legs when he dresses... TEAM - if Wade can do it so can Tyson...

[Rasho Brezec]

What series did you watch bro? just imagine west or Hibb constantly getting pump faked and driven on by Bargs- compound that with Melo dropping 39 and they don't look so mighty...

Imagine them killing us on the boards and winning because they get to have 10 more possesion per game than we. Because that's what's going to happen.

And that would have changed if Novak was on the floor? Imagine them winning because they get to have 10 more possessions per game than we do and not have to worry about anyone scoring on them but Carmelo Anthony.

He won't be taking just Novak's minutes. He'll be taking Amare's and Copeland's, too. They both rebound better than him. He'll also have Melo who's a better rebounder away from the basket because he'll be guarding perimeter players.

[moocow007]

This role stuff is my reference to the whispers of Tyson wanting to score more... Tyson no needs to focus on defense and rebounding...

You're wrong... Tyson is the horse that does all the heavy lifting and to keep your horses happy you have to feed them some hay (occasional touches) or your horses get tired of doing all the heavy lifting.

Especially when you have guys who don't play defense waisting possessions with contested jump shots. Same thing two years in a row.

So what you're saying is that the Knicks should have had their great PG's move the ball and setup their many clearly great offensive options for easier baskets?

[kNicksGmen]

i almost feel like making a new thread pointing out that the pacers series was close. people in here acting like we got destroyed or something and have no chance to beat them in the future which is ridiculous.... but i won't.

same exact amount of points scored. despite melo with a bum shoulder, amare basically not playing, chandler being rusty/sucking and JR being off all series. despite all that it was a close series... yet somehow there is no way we can ever beat them?

[K_ick_God]

The Pacers run a traditional lineup and still wiped the floor against our small ball team.

What series did you watch bro? just imagine west or Hibb constantly getting pump faked and driven on by Bargs- compound that with Melo dropping 39 and they don't look so mighty...

Imagine them killing us on the boards and winning because they get to have 10 more possesions per game than we. Because that's what's going to happen.

He's a weak rebounder. Individual rebounding stats are not as significant as your team rebounding and if that's solid, you can hide a bad rebounder some. Similar to D but even more so with rebounding.

On the other hand, you can't hide a lack of secondary scoring. It catches up to you eventually.

Individual rebounding can be very overrated and even team rebounding might be misunderstood. You love numbers so I'll throw out that the Spurs were 21st in rebounding and Miami dead last at 30th. 21 versus 30 for the championship ... and 30 won. (Hey Riley, no rebounds, no rings? )

He's not a perfect player or close to one. He's not replacing perfect players (Novak is not a good rebounder and Camby didn't play at all), nor is the package we gave up good enough to get a perfect player.

[johnnywishbone]

i don't like bargs. but he's gonna take the copeland/novak minutes. those guys sucked defensively too. which is why i keep saying, just make your 3s. that's all those other guys did.

Yeah. I'm not a Bargnani fan but this silly silly silly 300+ page argument about how Bargnani doesn't play defense or rebound fail to realize that the players/minutes/roles that he'd theoretically be replacing plays even worse defense.

And like I posted, you have the bitching about how Bargnani isn't good enough of a get from the same group that shot down every trade idea for pretty much that same package for better guys buy saying no one is going to trade anyone good for that type of package.

I don't know what packages you're talking about but I was on the trade Novak for Andre Miller train.

See Andre not Andrea. When Dolan was reading this board he must have gotten confused. Dammit.

[bigfnjoe96]

i don't like bargs. but he's gonna take the copeland/novak minutes. those guys sucked defensively too. which is why i keep saying, just make your 3s. that's all those other guys did.

Yeah. I'm not a Bargnani fan but this silly silly silly 300+ page argument about how Bargnani doesn't play defense or rebound fail to realize that the players/minutes/roles that he'd theoretically be replacing plays even worse defense.

And like I posted, you have the bitching about how Bargnani isn't good enough of a get from the same group that shot down every trade idea for pretty much that same package for better guys buy saying no one is going to trade anyone good for that type of package.

They are blurred, that can't even see how Bargnani can create a matchup problem on the offensive end due to his ability to not onlt hit the J, but take his man off the dribbble. I can just see him & Priggie running PnR

[bigfnjoe96]

Case and example...

[Thugger HBC]

we try to involve tyson in the offense and he fumbles easy catch and finish dunks, he has horrible hands.

can everyone please stop acting like the pacers series wasn't close. both teams scored the exact same amount of points in the series. the difference was they won the 2 close games, while the other 4 games were blowouts 1 way or the other. imagine if melo was healthy and shot closer to his season average? or tyson and JR didn't crap the bed. a few more made shots and the knicks win that series.

How can you imagine something that has never happened?

Melo hasn't shot anywhere near his regular season average since being a Knick, Tyson has yet to be an impact in a playoff as well as JR.

This deal compounds that...not make it better.

Imo, if you have HCA and dont force a game 7...it wasnt close....close is losing 4-3.

[moocow007]

Imagine them killing us on the boards and winning because they get to have 10 more possesion per game than we. Because that's what's going to happen.

And that would have changed if Novak was on the floor? Imagine them winning because they get to have 10 more possessions per game than we do and not have to worry about anyone scoring on them but Carmelo Anthony.

He won't be taking just Novak's minutes. He'll be taking Amare's and Copeland's, too. They both rebound better than him. He'll also have Melo who's a better rebounder away from the basket because he'll be guarding perimeter players.

? Stoudemire can barely play and can't be relied on...you've said that...now he's going to take Stoudemire's minutes? I'm confused. Copeland is a worse defender than Bargnani is...forget about the reality that he's not likely to be coming back even if they didn't do this trade. I mean isn't it clear to you that the Knicks were more interested in bringing Prigioni back and that it wasn't realistic given what little assets they had to bring both Prigioni and Copeland back? Why do you think they may have made this trade in the first place? Maybe because they realize that they're likely to lose Copeland? Melo better away from the basket guarding perimeter players? And which one of Novak, SToudemire and Copeland was going to not allow that to happen?

[johnnywishbone]

i don't like bargs. but he's gonna take the copeland/novak minutes. those guys sucked defensively too. which is why i keep saying, just make your 3s. that's all those other guys did.

Yeah. I'm not a Bargnani fan but this silly silly silly 300+ page argument about how Bargnani doesn't play defense or rebound fail to realize that the players/minutes/roles that he'd theoretically be replacing plays even worse defense.

And like I posted, you have the bitching about how Bargnani isn't good enough of a get from the same group that shot down every trade idea for pretty much that same package for better guys buy saying no one is going to trade anyone good for that type of package.

They are blurred, that can't even see how Bargnani can create a matchup problem on the offensive end due to his ability to not onlt hit the J, but take his man off the dribbble. I can just see him & Priggie running PnR

Yeah it will be like the sweet music that was Jose Calderon and Andrea. To the tune of a 22 win season.

[ibraheim718]

It's still the same old song..

When someone proposed trading that poo package for someone good...the same group that is caboshing the Bargnani trade would chime in with "lol no one is going to trade anyone good for that poo poo platter".

But if they trade that poo package for someone like Bargnani...the same group chimes in with the "they should have traded that package for something good".

I asked you this yesterday.. didn't get an answer.. reposted it again.. didn't get an answer... you probably didn't see it.

How do you know what we could've or couldn't have traded this package for?

Do you know for a fact that we shopped this type of a package to other teams?

Do you think this move was a move in haste in rebuttal to the Nets move?

And aren't trades made all the time that are unexpected? So why assume this was all we could've traded for when none of us have any real direct knowledge of what is actually happening at MSG behind closed doors?

I see you and guys like GONYK speaking definitively about what type of players were actually available to us because of what we were presumably offering.

Did anyone see the Garnett+Pierce trade coming... did anyone see the Bledsoe to Phoenix trade coming... if I would've posted that Bledsoe deal on our trade thoughts trade I would've been shot down saying well Phoenix has Dragic why would they trade for Bledsoe who isn't a better PG, no?

My point is it's not smart to say "geez this was all we could get for our scrubs" when you definitely don't know that... it's just a way of settling which is what a front office does that lacks creativity and patience.

According to reports we tried to trade for Bargnani last year... and presto.. we traded for him this year... that tells me we WANTED Bargnani however bad or good our package was. <No pun intended...

This post was made in all seriousness to prove a point and I tried to lay it out as respectful as possible because what I think I've read from you is residual disappointment at first that has now turned into anger from the Hardaway draft pick.

[moocow007]

i don't like bargs. but he's gonna take the copeland/novak minutes. those guys sucked defensively too. which is why i keep saying, just make your 3s. that's all those other guys did.

Yeah. I'm not a Bargnani fan but this silly silly silly 300+ page argument about how Bargnani doesn't play defense or rebound fail to realize that the players/minutes/roles that he'd theoretically be replacing plays even worse defense.

And like I posted, you have the bitching about how Bargnani isn't good enough of a get from the same group that shot down every trade idea for pretty much that same package for better guys buy saying no one is going to trade anyone good for that type of package.

I don't know what packages you're talking about but I was on the trade Novak for Andre Miller train.

See Andre not Andrea. When Dolan was reading this board he must have gotten confused. Dammit.

Other than cause you really really really want it to happen, why on earth would Denver do that trade? If we want to head off to fantasy land then why not just wait for them to trade that package to Boston (without Shumpert) for Rondo?