BREAKING **** NEWS: Deal #done Knicks acquire Bargnani

[NBA Fan 1234]

but you cant only focus on the negatives. that's ridiculous.

But wait.. this dudes last couple of years has been more negative than it has been positive, right?

while battling injuries and facing opposing teams as number one options, yes.

what about when he was playing next to another star? let's ignore that.

[ibraheim718]

This is what i said way before this trade happened.....

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1253760&start=15

Re: Bargnani?

Unread postby Thugger HBC on Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:26 pm
I'd lose alot of faith in Grunwald if Bargnani became a Knick.


Oh yeah, i see some flip flopping.

And whomever you are, I have my hammer cocked and ready....


Re: Bargnani?

Unread postby BowlRips on Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:46 pm
Bargnani for Novak, Camby and a first

a)i dont know why you keep mentioning amare and tyson.
b) theyre will be no market for bargs
c) toronto looking to rebuild not add salary
d) cambys deal unguaranteed, basically expiring contract
e) they need shooting, novak at 4 mil works
f) they acquire the 24th pick. more assets in rebuild

I see a gang of flip flopping in that thread... you either like a guy or you don't. I'd much rather have kept the first and the two other seconds just in case something better came along... Let Novak sit on the bench and let some other young hungry players get the opportunity Bargnani is going to get for less money.

[TrueWarrior]

who is the solid player that got traded for 2nd round picks? hopefully you're not dumb enough to be referencing the bledsoe deal.

Friend.. google the hundreds upon hundreds of transactions that go on in the NBA from one year to the next and you'll find plenty of trades where teams settle for less just to get rid of players.

What did toronto give up for Lowry last year?

Gary Forbes and the 12th pick in the draft this year. So basically a lotto pick for Lowry. We gave up a likely late first 3 years from now for Bargs while helping our cap. Id take our deal.

[kNicksGmen]

who is the solid player that got traded for 2nd round picks? hopefully you're not dumb enough to be referencing the bledsoe deal.

Friend.. google the hundreds upon hundreds of transactions that go on in the NBA from one year to the next and you'll find plenty of trades where teams settle for less just to get rid of players.

What did toronto give up for Lowry last year?

they gave up a lotto first rounder. (which hou traded to okc in the harden deal)

[ibraheim718]

but you cant only focus on the negatives. that's ridiculous.

But wait.. this dudes last couple of years has been more negative than it has been positive, right?

while battling injuries and facing opposing teams as number one options, yes.

what about when he was playing next to another star? let's ignore that.

Ignore what? What he did 3 years ago.. (I'm on my way to being banned.. so just in case I can't get it in it was nice knowing you.. and I really hate that we have to be on opposite sides of this argument.)

[SonOfRoy]

I think this video encapsulates all my concerns about Andrea.

you can just as easily find a video of him having a great offensive game.

not sure you can find one that shows his solid post defense, but all the synergy stats showed already that he is a very good post defender straight up.

Andrea is a pretty decent man on man defender in the post. He doesn't bite often at shot fakes and stays down. He doesn't foul a lot and is able to use his length to force opponents to make difficult shots. But that is where the positives end unfortunately. He is an abysmal help defender and truly one of the worst rebounder's the league has ever seen. He will never be a good rebounder as he is too soft when it comes to fighting for balls off the glass but his main problem is his apparent indifference to rebounding. Perhaps NY's coaching staff can get his head on straight in this regard.

[ibraheim718]

who is the solid player that got traded for 2nd round picks? hopefully you're not dumb enough to be referencing the bledsoe deal.

Friend.. google the hundreds upon hundreds of transactions that go on in the NBA from one year to the next and you'll find plenty of trades where teams settle for less just to get rid of players.

What did toronto give up for Lowry last year?

they gave up a lotto first rounder.

Why assume that our pick and Denver's pick can't realistically be in the vicinity in 2016?

[kNicksGmen]

I think this video encapsulates all my concerns about Andrea.

you can just as easily find a video of him having a great offensive game.

not sure you can find one that shows his solid post defense, but all the synergy stats showed already that he is a very good post defender straight up.

Andrea is a pretty decent man on man defender in the post. He doesn't bite often at shot fakes and stays down. He doesn't foul a lot and is able to use his length to force opponents to make difficult shots. But that is where the positives end unfortunately. He is an abysmal help defender and truly one of the worst rebounder's the league has ever seen. He will never be a good rebounder as he is too soft when it comes to fighting for balls off the glass but his main problem is his apparent indifference to rebounding. Perhaps NY's coaching staff can get his head on straight in this regard.

so he's a better defender than novak overall (novak is abysmal at everything relating to defense) and a more versatile offensive player too? sounds like the knicks got the better end of the deal in regards to the players in the trade. which is why the picks don't bother me that much, it made the trade fair for both teams.

[ibraheim718]

who is the solid player that got traded for 2nd round picks? hopefully you're not dumb enough to be referencing the bledsoe deal.

Friend.. google the hundreds upon hundreds of transactions that go on in the NBA from one year to the next and you'll find plenty of trades where teams settle for less just to get rid of players.

What did toronto give up for Lowry last year?

Gary Forbes and the 12th pick in the draft this year. So basically a lotto pick for Lowry. We gave up a likely late first 3 years from now for Bargs while helping our cap. Id take our deal.

How is it likely a late first? We're one Carmelo Anthony injury away from being in the lottery ourselves.

[bklynstoops]

Kneega please. If you don't want to hear what I'm saying read then read the above. This is exactly how I feel.

[Thugger HBC]

you can just as easily find a video of him having a great offensive game.

not sure you can find one that shows his solid post defense, but all the synergy stats showed already that he is a very good post defender straight up.

Andrea is a pretty decent man on man defender in the post. He doesn't bite often at shot fakes and stays down. He doesn't foul a lot and is able to use his length to force opponents to make difficult shots. But that is where the positives end unfortunately. He is an abysmal help defender and truly one of the worst rebounder's the league has ever seen. He will never be a good rebounder as he is too soft when it comes to fighting for balls off the glass but his main problem is his apparent indifference to rebounding. Perhaps NY's coaching staff can get his head on straight in this regard.

so he's a better defender than novak overall (novak is abysmal at everything relating to defense) and a more versatile offensive player too? sounds like the knicks got the better end of the deal in regards to the players in the trade. which is why the picks don't bother me that much, it made the trade fair for both teams.

This logic is exactly why Woody would never bench JR even when he struggled....

Because he's always a "threat" to score.

[johnnywishbone]

I hate this deal because it was obviously a rushed move set up in the last minute. We showed our cards again like we always do. Trades can't become official before July 10th. We could've waited at least that long before deciding on anything, because teams would be signing FA's, making room on their roster, etc. All of the things we gave up in that trade could've been valuable since both Camby's and Novak's contracts are small.

And if we really made the trade because the FO likes Bargnani that much, then I question their job suitability. He's just not a good fit on this team if we're serious about winning in the playoffs.

I'm quoting this twice because it finally dawned on me why I hate this trade so much. The biggest existential threat to the Knicks is the idiot owner. And it just reminds me that he is in control of the team. Maybe it's not that bad of a deal but it's not any kind of game changer either. And I guess that's the best you can hope for with this jackwad. Which is really disheartening.

[ibraheim718]

Re: Bargnani?
by moocow007 on Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:36 am

66 and 76

One is the number of games that Stoudemire has played the past 2 seasons, the other is the number of games Bargnani has played the past 2 seasons. Guess which one is which?

430 and 450

One is the number of games played by Stoudemire since the 2006-2007 season, the other is the number of games played by Barnani since he came into the league in 2006-2007. Guess which one is which?

14.2ppg/5.0rpg/.575FG and 12.7ppg/3.7rpg/.399FG

One is the stats for Stoudemire this season, the other is the stats for Bargnani this season. Guess which one is which?

0 and 1

One is the number of 1st round picks the Knicks has this year, the other is the number of 1st round picks the Raptors have this year. Guess which is which?

Vagigi and Scrotum

One is what Stoudemire has. The other is what Bargnani has. Guess which one has which?

I can keep going on and on. The only thing that Bargnani has that is better than Stoudemire is that he's owed less money for the next two seasons (the Knicks will be well over the cap whether they have Stoudemire or Bargnani).

I got to give it to you Moocow this was one of your more creative posts.

[NBA Fan 1234]

But wait.. this dudes last couple of years has been more negative than it has been positive, right?

while battling injuries and facing opposing teams as number one options, yes.

what about when he was playing next to another star? let's ignore that.

Ignore what? What he did 3 years ago.. (I'm on my way to being banned.. so just in case I can't get it in it was nice knowing you.. and I really hate that we have to be on opposite sides of this argument.)

yes, what he did before the injuries and being forced into being a number one option.

why are you going to get banned? it would be a shame if we werent able to continue to talk. you know i enjoy your posts a lot (even though we disagree from time to time)

[TrueWarrior]

Friend.. google the hundreds upon hundreds of transactions that go on in the NBA from one year to the next and you'll find plenty of trades where teams settle for less just to get rid of players.

What did toronto give up for Lowry last year?

Gary Forbes and the 12th pick in the draft this year. So basically a lotto pick for Lowry. We gave up a likely late first 3 years from now for Bargs while helping our cap. Id take our deal.

How is it likely a late first? We're one Carmelo Anthony injury away from being in the lottery ourselves.

And then the Nuggets will just swap with us. Theyd have to suck too for that to even matter. Of course its possible but its just not likely unless we both blew our teams up.

You can continue looking at all the negatives to this deal if you want. Im kind of in the middle which to me makes the most sense since it was a pretty evenly sided trade in my eyes. We clearly won this trade on talent. The 2016 pick remains to be seen but we did help our 2015 cap, so alot depends who we sign that year. Everything has been said a thousand times so lets see just how the ball bounces when the lights go on.

[kNicksGmen]

Friend.. google the hundreds upon hundreds of transactions that go on in the NBA from one year to the next and you'll find plenty of trades where teams settle for less just to get rid of players.

What did toronto give up for Lowry last year?

they gave up a lotto first rounder.

Why assume that our pick and Denver's pick can't realistically be in the vicinity in 2016?

when the raptors made the trade it was almost certainly a lotto pick because it was their pick that year, which gave it value. a pick years down the road is uncertain, meaning it has less value. you seem like you'd rather stand pat, blow the team up and use the pick down the road for a different trade (that you'd likely complain about regardless) or actually use the pick in the draft to bring in a prospect. neither possibility helps the team right now. the knicks are in win now mode. it's a simple concept really. whether you agree that they should be in win now mode or not is irelevent.

[ibraheim718]

I'm just lulzing everytime a certain someone follows "you don't know that", by making an equally definitive statement himself.

That's because I know I'm right.. why would I be going through all this garbage if I didn't? I'm just giving y'all a little wiggle room.

let's wager... We get past the 2nd round next year I'll give you my screen name.. we don't you give me yours?

If this was such a no-nrainer then the team should be better right?

[kNicksGmen]

Andrea is a pretty decent man on man defender in the post. He doesn't bite often at shot fakes and stays down. He doesn't foul a lot and is able to use his length to force opponents to make difficult shots. But that is where the positives end unfortunately. He is an abysmal help defender and truly one of the worst rebounder's the league has ever seen. He will never be a good rebounder as he is too soft when it comes to fighting for balls off the glass but his main problem is his apparent indifference to rebounding. Perhaps NY's coaching staff can get his head on straight in this regard.

so he's a better defender than novak overall (novak is abysmal at everything relating to defense) and a more versatile offensive player too? sounds like the knicks got the better end of the deal in regards to the players in the trade. which is why the picks don't bother me that much, it made the trade fair for both teams.

This logic is exactly why Woody would never bench JR even when he struggled....

Because he's always a "threat" to score.

to be fair we didn't have a lot of other options. he knew we needed JR to get going for us to have any sort of a chance to really make a deep run in the playoffs...

[ibraheim718]

they gave up a lotto first rounder.

Why assume that our pick and Denver's pick can't realistically be in the vicinity in 2016?

when the raptors made the trade it was almost certainly a lotto pick because it was their pick that year, which gave it value. a pick years down the road is uncertain, meaning it has less value. you seem like you'd rather stand pat, blow the team up and use the pick down the road for a different trade (that you'd likely complain about regardless) or actually use the pick in the draft to bring in a prospect. neither possibility helps the team right now. the knicks are in win now mode. it's a simple concept really. whether you agree that they should be in win now mode or not is irelevent.

This team ain't winning nothing now, tomorrow, or in 2015 with the direction they've taken...

Me and you can wager also.. I'm done talking.. I want screen names.

[moocow007]

I hate this deal because it was obviously a rushed move set up in the last minute. We showed our cards again like we always do. Trades can't become official before July 10th. We could've waited at least that long before deciding on anything, because teams would be signing FA's, making room on their roster, etc. All of the things we gave up in that trade could've been valuable since both Camby's and Novak's contracts are small.

And if we really made the trade because the FO likes Bargnani that much, then I question their job suitability. He's just not a good fit on this team if we're serious about winning in the playoffs.

I'm quoting this twice because it finally dawned on me why I hate this trade so much. The biggest existential threat to the Knicks is the idiot owner. And it just reminds me that he is in control of the team. Maybe it's not that bad of a deal but it's not any kind of game changer either. And I guess that's the best you can hope for with this jackwad. Which is really disheartening.

And chronically complaining about it is going to do what? How about give the ****er a chance to see if a change in scenery and playing on a good team actually will get him to produce?

He did average 17.2ppg and 6.2rpg while shooting 47% from the field the last time he actually played with a real no.1 option type. And while his fg% went down the following 2 years when he was forced to play out of position at C as a no.1 option he still did manage 21.4ppg and 19.2ppg thru the 2011-2012 season.