Fake Trade Thread III

[HornetJail]

So is there any penalty for being at 70 million in payroll.... why cant we just break the soft cap?

You pay luxury tax at 71.6M. Below that number, there's no penalty. Don't worry we are nowhere close to that. Even after we re-sign Hendo and mcBob, we're likely to remain around 60M.

[James Gatz]

If we could get Eric Gordon for BG + some incentive do we do it? I would of said completely not a few days ago. But if we are pushing to win let's go for it.

Kemba/Sessions
EG/Taylor/FA
MKG/Taylor/FA
Zeller/McBob
Jefferson/Biz/Haywood

That team would make the playoffs.

[JMAC3]

Okay... So I remember us saying we had around 20.5 million, after signing draft pick and if we amnestied TT. So if we assume we spent around 13 on Jefferson for his year 1. Then we have 7 million to play with Roughly...

So to me..
1. We sign McBob to the Room Exception. Doesn't affect our cap if we wait on him last and use exception???

then..
A) we can just sign Hendo for whatever he wants and be done because he is restricted.
B) We sign Mayo to a deal for around 7 million.
C) We sign somebody first using the 7 million, then pay Hendo what he wants to go over soft cap, just stay below hard cap.
D) We go all out sign mayo to 7 million, then use our powers to sign Hendo to break cap and use him as super sub for Mayo and MKG..

[HornetJail]

If we could get Eric Gordon for BG + some incentive do we do it? I would of said completely not a few days ago. But if we are pushing to win let's go for it.

Kemba/Sessions
EG/Taylor/FA
MKG/Taylor/FA
Zeller/McBob
Jefferson/Biz/Haywood

That team would make the playoffs.

Right now, yes. Since that's the direction we're going in, I wouldn't be opposed to that risk. The worst that happens is Gordon doesn't play a lot due to injury and we tank in '14.

Oops, did I say worst?

[Logander]

Okay... So I remember us saying we had around 20.5 million, after signing draft pick and if we amnestied TT. So if we assume we spent around 13 on Jefferson for his year 1. Then we have 7 million to play with Roughly...

So to me..
1. We sign McBob to the Room Exception. Doesn't affect our cap if we wait on him last and use exception???

then..
A) we can just sign Hendo for whatever he wants and be done because he is restricted.
B) We sign Mayo to a deal for around 7 million.
C) We sign somebody first using the 7 million, then pay Hendo what he wants to go over soft cap, just stay below hard cap.
D) We go all out sign mayo to 7 million, then use our powers to sign Hendo to break cap and use him as super sub for Mayo and MKG..

If we're all in for making a playoff run this year that would be a pretty sick team really. Even if Mayo didn't sign we could maybe get Dorell Wright and still have Hendo as sixth man. I feel like we could be a threat in the playoffs if all that happened for sure.

[HornetJail]

Okay... So I remember us saying we had around 20.5 million, after signing draft pick and if we amnestied TT. So if we assume we spent around 13 on Jefferson for his year 1. Then we have 7 million to play with Roughly...

So to me..
1. We sign McBob to the Room Exception. Doesn't affect our cap if we wait on him last and use exception???

then..
A) we can just sign Hendo for whatever he wants and be done because he is restricted.
B) We sign Mayo to a deal for around 7 million.
C) We sign somebody first using the 7 million, then pay Hendo what he wants to go over soft cap, just stay below hard cap.
D) We go all out sign mayo to 7 million, then use our powers to sign Hendo to break cap and use him as super sub for Mayo and MKG..

Once Hendo is back, we aren't going to have but a million or two left under the cap.

Hendo's cap hold of 7M+ is going to keep us from shelling out additional cash for Mayo. That can't happen. It's one or another. Right now, we have more or less 50M in contracts.

[BlackOutBuzz]

Once Hendo is back, we aren't going to have but a million or two left under the cap.

Hendo's cap hold of 7M+ is going to keep us from shelling out additional cash for Mayo. That can't happen. It's one or another. Right now, we have more or less 50M in contracts.

By my count we have about $2m in space right now, and Hendo isn't likely to get paid his cap hold amount. I'm thinking he gets around $6.5m per, with the first year being about $5.5m and increasing from there (thus adding another $1-2 mil).

Posted this in the FA thread, but it's pretty relevant here as well.

Ben Gordon - 13,200,000
Al Jefferson - 12,700,000 (Estimated with raises each year)
Gerald Henderson - 7,753,318 (Cap Hold)
Ramon Sessions - 5,000,000
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist - 4,809,840
Bismack Biyombo - 3,049,920
Cody Zeller - 3,214,200 (Cap Hold)
Kemba Walker- 2,568,360
Brendan Haywood - 2,050,000
Jeff Adrien - 916,099 (Unguaranteed)
Jeff Taylor - 788,872
Troy Daniels- ??? (Summer league acquisition)
Brandon Triche- ??? (Summer league acquisition)
Tyrus Thomas - 8694215 (AMN; Not counted)
DeSagana Diop - UFA
Josh McRoberts - UFA
Byron Mullens - UFA
Jannero Pargo - UFA
Reggie Williams - UFA

Salary Cap - 58,044,000
Tax Level - 71,600,000
Team Salary - 56,050,609
Cap Space - 1,993,391

Even still, that's only 10 players under contract. Hendo, if we bring him back, is probably not gonna get $7.7m. It would probably be more like $6.5m or so, with the first year at about $5.5m with raises in the years after that. That would give us about $4 million to play with and 11 roster spots filled, and if we do exceed the cap then we can use the mid-level.

The other option would be to renounce Hendo - thus giving us about $9.6m in cap space if we wanted to make a run at another expensive FA. And like Fats said, suddenly a guy like Mayo makes a bit more sense than Hendo.

[HornetJail]

McBob also has a cap hold, which I assume we will be renouncing unless we've got a deal in place for Haywood or Hendo comes to an agreement worth a fair bit less than his hold, neither is a given.

I also disagree that Mayo makes sense for our direction, unless you believe Al Jefferson is a secret tank commander or something.

[JMAC3]

Okay.. I am starting to understand a bit better....

1. How does McBob have a cap hold if he is an unrestricted FA?
2. Why is Hendo cap hold so high? seems a bit ridiculous..
3. How does it make sense that teams over the cap have a higher exception than teams under the cap?
4. So if teams have to account for cap holds, then how do teams like LA, Nets, and Miami have such high caps?
5. So is the only way to build your cap, to have rising contracts, only sign restricted guy, and midlevel exceptions?

Seems like teams over the soft cap are almost in a better situation then teams under the cap...

[Logander]

Okay.. I am starting to understand a bit better....

1. How does McBob have a cap hold if he is an unrestricted FA?
2. Why is Hendo cap hold so high? seems a bit ridiculous..
3. How does it make sense that teams over the cap have a higher exception than teams under the cap?
4. So if teams have to account for cap holds, then how do teams like LA, Nets, and Miami have such high caps?
5. So is the only way to build your cap, to have rising contracts, only sign restricted guy, and midlevel exceptions?

Seems like teams over the soft cap are almost in a better situation then teams under the cap...

Well if you are well under the cap you could be considered not putting enough money into your team and blatantly tanking in a way I guess? It's wierd how it works. I guess they see it the more money you put into your team equates to you trying to be a good team unlike the latter.

[BlackOutBuzz]

All FAs have cap holds if they have Bird Rights. Basically, the holds are there so that teams don't use up all their cap space on guys from other teams and then use their own FAs Bird Rights to re-sign them even if they're over the cap.

In McBob's case, even though we want him back, it doesn't make sense for us to hold onto his cap number and restrict our cap space, since we won't be signing him for an amount greater than his cap hold.

Gerald shouldn't get an amount as high as his hold either, but keeping the hold keeps him restricted.

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[BlackOutBuzz]

As far as caps... the soft cap this year is like 58m, beyond that teams can re-sign their own guys or take on additional salary through trades up until about 71m, which is where the nasty luxury tax penalties (which are much worse starting this season) kick in. There are like 10 teams in the tax, and they're pretty frantically trying to get out before the penalties start rolling in.

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[KembaWalker]

wouldnt be surprised if we make a big trade at this point. the last thing this team needs is 3 more rookies next year. there are only so many minutes to go around

[countryboi]

wouldnt be surprised if we make a big trade at this point. the last thing this team needs is 3 more rookies next year. there are only so many minutes to go around

I expect us to package at least 2 of these picks in a attempt to move up in next years draft but its a little early for all that

[BobsBuddy]

I agree with the post that we are not done moving players. GSW might be able to use remaining 12 million cap left on 3-4 way deal to land Howard. How about Jefferson, GSW 2014 1st round pick for Gordy to another team. Sign Jefferson to 2 year contract with 2nd as Team option. Jefferson helps us offensively and in locker room. 6.5 mil a year savings in Cap space to GSW if we find a contender that wants Gordy's expiring.
KW Sess
Hendo,Daniels JT
MKG, Jefferson
AL,Z-man Adrien
Biz, Haywood

And we pick up a 2014 1st round pick

[MasterIchiro]

Biyombo + DET pick (I really feel will carry over and become top-1 protected because DET sucks) + POR pick (I feel it could reach 2016 unprotected if they trade LMA) + capsace for Bogut and Klay Thompson?

[HornetJail]

Biyombo + DET pick (I really feel will carry over and become top-1 protected because DET sucks) + POR pick (I feel it could reach 2016 unprotected if they trade LMA) + capsace for Bogut and Klay Thompson?

If you think Detroit and Portland suck that badly, then why are you proposing trading both for Klay Thompson?

Plus Golden State is desperate to clear cap and are looking to deal Bogut, RJ, AND Biedrins. We can't help them now that we signed Al Jefferson.

[MasterIchiro]

Biyombo + DET pick (I really feel will carry over and become top-1 protected because DET sucks) + POR pick (I feel it could reach 2016 unprotected if they trade LMA) + capsace for Bogut and Klay Thompson?

If you think Detroit and Portland suck that badly, then why are you proposing trading both for Klay Thompson?

Still those picks represent unproven players so if the goal is to turn both into one player, I'd love to have Thompson. If not Bogut, then take Jefferson off their hands and pull Biz if that tickles your fancy.

[MasterIchiro]

My general point is I'd like to somehow turn those 2 picks (DET and POR) into Klay Thompson if possible.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

I don't think that the team should trade picks unless they are getting something amazing back. Those picks are what is going to enable the rebuild to keep going even as the team gets better in the short to mid term.

Ben Gordon should be about the only thing that the team dangles for most deals. Mid-year there will be more demand for him. Sessions, picks, or other young players should only be traded in hugely favorable deals. They are the team's foundation for the future.