Wizards agree to terms with Eric Maynor

[DCZards]

If you consider "get a room" an actual personal attack then just go ahead and block me, because right now your only encouraging me to actually go there.

Block you, dat. Why would I do that? Do you actually think I care what you say or think?

[LyricalRico]

It's not worth it DCZards. As long as Ernie is the GM, it won't be safe for anyone to say anything positive about any moves the team makes. Heck, we even have people already saying they're sad that a healthy Wizards team might win 50+ games because that would mean Ernie won't get fired.

WTF? A team goes from 20 wins during the lockout-shortened season to potentially 50+ just two seasons later (with max cap space in the offseason that immediately follows) and people are actually saying they'd be sad about that? Wow...

[Dat2U]

If you consider "get a room" an actual personal attack then just go ahead and block me, because right now your only encouraging me to actually go there.

Block you, dat. Why would I do that? Do you actually think I care what you say or think?

If you didn't care, you wouldn't be calling me out for my "personal attacks" now would you?

[mhd]

It's not worth it DCZards. As long as Ernie is the GM, it won't be safe for anyone to say anything positive about any moves the team makes. Heck, we even have people already saying they're sad that a healthy Wizards team might win 50+ games because that would mean Ernie won't get fired.

WTF? A team goes from 20 wins during the lockout-shortened season to potentially 50+ just two seasons later (with max cap space in the offseason that immediately follows) and people are actually saying they'd be sad about that? Wow...

I'm not sure that a 50+ win season this upcoming year is truly indicative of the talent of this team. Half the league is tanking next year.

The 2011 draft is an absolute albratross that will cripple this franchise. EG could have picked ANYONE other than Ves & Singleton, and our longterm outlook would have been much better off. That draft has hampered us severly.

[Rafael122]

It's not worth it DCZards. As long as Ernie is the GM, it won't be safe for anyone to say anything positive about any moves the team makes. Heck, we even have people already saying they're sad that a healthy Wizards team might win 50+ games because that would mean Ernie won't get fired.

WTF? A team goes from 20 wins during the lockout-shortened season to potentially 50+ just two seasons later (with max cap space in the offseason that immediately follows) and people are actually saying they'd be sad about that? Wow...

I'm not sure that a 50+ win season this upcoming year is truly indicative of the talent of this team. Half the league is tanking next year.

The 2011 draft is an absolute albratross that will cripple this franchise. EG could have picked ANYONE other than Ves & Singleton, and our longterm outlook would have been much better off. That draft has hampered us severly.

I kinda mentioned this in the EG thread, if the Wiz won 50 games, would EG get credit or will it be because half the league is tanking. There's no win/win for him.

[Dat2U]

It's not worth it DCZards. As long as Ernie is the GM, it won't be safe for anyone to say anything positive about any moves the team makes. Heck, we even have people already saying they're sad that a healthy Wizards team might win 50+ games because that would mean Ernie won't get fired.

WTF? A team goes from 20 wins during the lockout-shortened season to potentially 50+ just two seasons later (with max cap space in the offseason that immediately follows) and people are actually saying they'd be sad about that? Wow...

Sorry but Ernie's built up years of distrust among many Wizards fans to get to this point. True, I never liked the hire of Ernie in the first place 10 years ago, but I didn't actually start calling for his head until the Mike Miller/Randy Foye trade a few years back. The moment he made that deal, he had to go IMO. Most guys don't get 2nd & 3rd chances to fix what they've screwed up, nor should they.

[mhd]

It's not worth it DCZards. As long as Ernie is the GM, it won't be safe for anyone to say anything positive about any moves the team makes. Heck, we even have people already saying they're sad that a healthy Wizards team might win 50+ games because that would mean Ernie won't get fired.

WTF? A team goes from 20 wins during the lockout-shortened season to potentially 50+ just two seasons later (with max cap space in the offseason that immediately follows) and people are actually saying they'd be sad about that? Wow...

Sorry but Ernie's built up years of distrust among many Wizards fans to get to this point. True, I never liked the hire of Ernie in the first place 10 years ago, but I didn't actually start calling for his head until the Mike Miller/Randy Foye trade a few years back. The moment he made that deal, he had to go IMO. Most guys don't get 2nd & 3rd chances to fix what they've screwed up, nor should they.

The 2011 draft is what sealed it for me. Beal was a no-brianer pick. The truly astounding implications is that if Beal wasn't there, EG would have picked Barnes. I know I had Drummond rated high (as did you Dat), but I preferred Beal.

[tontoz]

It's not worth it DCZards. As long as Ernie is the GM, it won't be safe for anyone to say anything positive about any moves the team makes. Heck, we even have people already saying they're sad that a healthy Wizards team might win 50+ games because that would mean Ernie won't get fired.

WTF? A team goes from 20 wins during the lockout-shortened season to potentially 50+ just two seasons later (with max cap space in the offseason that immediately follows) and people are actually saying they'd be sad about that? Wow...

Slow your roll there. This team just finished it's 5th straight sub 30 win season. The high water mark for the EG era is 45 wins. The fans have plenty of reasons to criticize EG.

If there is a current GM in the league who has managed to keep his job as long as EG with a worse record i will eat my shorts.

[payitforward]

I'm obviously not the only one with old and tired ass routine.

Yeah, but you're the only one who resorts to personal attacks on posters' whose opinions you don't agree with.

If you consider "get a room" an actual personal attack then just go ahead and block me, because right now your only encouraging me to actually go there.

Neither of you guys is irritating. You don't even *know* irritating. You want irritating? Look at my posts... Now *that* is irritating, ok? That's what we mean when we say that word.

Truth is, I don't think you guys could be irritating if you tried. Childish, yes. Irritating, no.

And if that makes you block me, why... no no no, don't do that! Move your mouse away from that button! I have a lot to say, and I need you to read every word. It'll be good for you too. There is so much for you to learn from me.

[payitforward]

It's not worth it DCZards. As long as Ernie is the GM, it won't be safe for anyone to say anything positive about any moves the team makes.

Aw, and here I was so sure that most of us Ernie-critics liked the pick of Porter. And liked the pick of Beal. And, did anyone argue with the pick of Wall? Don't some of actually think maneuvering to get Rice might turn out well?

I guess you probably mean that it's not safe to say that you think the picks of Vesely (when Leonard, Vucevic & Faried were on the board) and Singleton (when Faried was there) and Mack (w/ 5-8 guys who are rotation players or starters now instead of being cut) were "positive... moves"? And Satoransky when the guys a bunch of us were pointing to (equally young, btw) are now rotation NBA players mostly on teams that average more than 29 wins a season.

Hey man, when you know you are right, why not be bold and tell us how "positive" those "moves" were.

Heck, we even have people already saying they're sad that a healthy Wizards team might win 50+ games because that would mean Ernie won't get fired.

Are you kidding? W/ all the great moves Ernie has made, like those above, it's championship or bust! How can you be satisfied w/ as little as "might win 50+ games"?

Btw, you wouldn't want to put a little bet on 50+ would you? I'll give you three to one odds. Would that be enough?

WTF? A team goes from 20 wins during the lockout-shortened season to potentially 50+ just two seasons later (with max cap space in the offseason that immediately follows) and people are actually saying they'd be sad about that? Wow...

I haven't read anything like that; maybe I missed it. Maybe it's just something people have "the potential" to say?

As to reality... lets see, 20 of 66 equals what, about 25 on 82? So what we actually did is go from 25 to 29. Of course, we had "the potential" to win 50+ games this time last year too. Every team has that "potential."

I think Ernie should be fired right now, should have been fired a long time ago. It's not personal. That's what a guy who averages 29-53 for a decade deserves. On the other hand, if we win 50+ games this year I'll be on his bandwagon big-time. Especially if we have this "max cap space" you claim we'll have.

Let me turn it around on you, if you don't mind -- what would be a bad enough result this year that *you* would change your mind and call for him to go? Is there anything bad enough? Would we have to have one of the 1/2 dozen worst records in the league? Would that do it? If we sneak into the playoffs w/ 30-something wins and go out in 4, would that be triumph or failure?

There must be some bar Ernie has to jump over, no? There must be some metric for success or failure, right? Otherwise, it's all about finding an ex-post facto explanation for whatever transpires.

So... what is it?

[DCZards]

The 2011 draft is an absolute albratross that will cripple this franchise. EG could have picked ANYONE other than Ves & Singleton, and our longterm outlook would have been much better off. That draft has hampered us severly.

Yeah, messing up that draft was the absolute worse. Set the Zards back years. Oh wait, what "franchise" player did we miss out on in 2011. Lebron? Shaq? Duncan? I can't remember.

[mhd]

The 2011 draft is an absolute albratross that will cripple this franchise. EG could have picked ANYONE other than Ves & Singleton, and our longterm outlook would have been much better off. That draft has hampered us severly.

Yeah, messing up that draft was the absolute worse. Set the Zards back years. Oh wait, what "franchise" player did we miss out on in 2011. Lebron? Shaq? Duncan? I can't remember.

Instead of non-contributoring busts like Ves & Singleton, we could have picked (cheap) players like Thompson, Leonard, Vucavic, Harris, Faried, Parsons, etc. Even the Morris twins would have been better picks. We picked the two worst possible players in both spots.

[DCZards]

Payit, I've never supported or defended the drafting of Ves, Mack or Sato. Not once. My crime (in at least one poster's opinion) was my defense and support of the Ariza/Okafor trade and, more recently, for believing that Maynor could turn out to be a good pick up for the Zards.

And, oh yes, I also believed that Beal was a better pick for the Zards than MKG, an opinion that same poster didn't share.

So, you see, I have sinned. I've had the audacity to agree with some of the moves made by the notorious EG...and not scream bloody murder about others.

[Nivek]

Interesting question with Webster. Here are Webster's PPA numbers by season:

2006 -- 61
2007 -- 52
2008 -- 88
2009 -- inj
2010 -- 88
2011 -- 62
2012 -- 67
2013 -- 114

Webster's non-shooting numbers (adjusted for pace) were about the same last season as they've been throughout his career. He'd always been a decent shooter, but last season he abruptly improved his shooting (including the best FT% since his rookie season). He also had a career high in assists. Biggest issue for Webster was finally getting healthy. When healthy, his performance had been at least in the vicinity of average.

With Maynor, there's always the hope that he'll click in Washington where he hasn't elsewhere. His best season was about as good as Webster's worst, though.

Well it feeds into the positive narrative that some good health and a stable role could help spike his production. PPA doesn't exist in a vacuum from. These factors, right? Those things seemed to have helped Webster plenty.

It could. It's definitely possible. A key difference between Webster and Maynor, however, is that Webster was reasonably productive when healthy, and he developed one skill (shooting) to a fairly high level before he got to Washington. I'm not seeing either of those things with Maynor.

But, it could very well be that he's been a guy just waiting for the right situation.

[DCZards]

Instead of non-contributoring busts like Ves & Singleton, we could have picked (cheap) players like Thompson, Leonard, Vucavic, Harris, Faried, Parsons, etc. Even the Morris twins would have been better picks. We picked the two worst possible players in both spots.

I agree. I wanted Leonard in the 2011 draft. But it's ridiculous (and a bit of hyperbole) to say that the failure to draft Leonard or any of these other guys "crippled the franchise."

[TGW]

The 2011 draft is an absolute albratross that will cripple this franchise. EG could have picked ANYONE other than Ves & Singleton, and our longterm outlook would have been much better off. That draft has hampered us severly.

Yeah, messing up that draft was the absolute worse. Set the Zards back years. Oh wait, what "franchise" player did we miss out on in 2011. Lebron? Shaq? Duncan? I can't remember.

See, this is the epitome of a copout post right here. So because Grunfeld didn't miss out on a franchise player in 2011, it's okay to totally goof it up? You mean you're giving him a pass on that?

OMG. DCZards have you watched the last 5 years of Wizards basketball? I'm just curious to find out what you're watching that makes you so supportive of management. Seriously.

[doclinkin]

A key difference between Webster and Maynor, however, is that Webster was reasonably productive when healthy, and he developed one skill (shooting) to a fairly high level before he got to Washington. I'm not seeing either of those things with Maynor.

Assist % maybe.

That's all I got. But I'm working that one to death. No, to the pain. But since you didn't read I'll recap:

I support the pick up though I don't even think Maynor's going to be a super good player. I know his defense is sub-par and his offense is not good enough to compensate. I do think he'll be a better and more creative distributor of the ball than Price was.

Therefore more fans will appreciate what he does do well, since defense is trickier to measure except in the final box score. And so it looks like a plausible pick-up, the ball moves around, the guys look like they like playing with him, the ball goes in the bucket. Yay.

And if John Wall does go down and we have to lean on Maynor -- well then, we are in the running for Aaron Gordon, if not Ender Wiggin. But at least the ball doesn't stick in a careful deliberate dribble but pops to the open guy, and our 2nd option players are not torpedoed trying to create for themselves. We saw the difference in Bradley Beal pre- and post- John Wall. A pass-first PG may be some part of the difference, aside from the amount of pressure and attention John puts on a defense.

Plus passing to our hapless back-ups in places where they can finish and not have to create for themselves may even make their numbers look a little better, if not give them confidence and juvenate their games. Impossible! But maybe they look better as trade prospects.

Essentially this move says, we're not close enough to where we can just keep adding long term pieces or collect assets that make us good-but-not-great. We need at least one piece. If we merely added depth in one or two positions then that's okay since a single system failure at PG or either key frontcourt player still keeps us in the running for a 2nd franchise caliber all-star talent.

Therefore if in selecting our back-up PG we add a guy who is offense first, pass-first but otherwise unremarkable (at best) we still add an asset in one area where we need it most: making our other players occasionally look competent on offense even when John isn't on the floor. And the change of pace from pass-first John Wall isn't as stark (to careful game manager AJ Price). Basically even if he sucks, the mass of fans will be entertained if the ball goes in the basket at a nice clip.

And that seems to be the sentiment of most fans who watched him in prior stops: can't defend or shoot all that well but he makes the offense run when he's out there. Okay that should be fun.

[gambitx777]

Should EG go, yes. are all of his moves bad, NO!. Has he made some really bad moves, YES!!! But not every move he makes is bad, Okariza did not help but it did not really hurt that much us either. we would have made the play off's with a healthy john and NENE. she he **** up the 2011 draft but hes gotten better. I want him gone as much as the next guy but with beal wall and rice, maynor was a good pick up and resigning webster was smart

[nate33]

Doc gets an "and 1" for the Ender's Game reference.

[Ruzious]

I'm late to the party, but I might as well weigh in. I like Maynor. Ignore last season - he was coming off the ACL injury, so I assume he's not damaged goods - hopefully, that doesn't turn out to be a bad assumption. He's no star, but he can be Price except as a more explosive scorer. That's fine for Wall's backup. But his durability has to be a questionmark, so if the Wall tumbles down with an injury, it's problematic.