Joe Dumars

Natopher · Post #1 » by **Natopher** » Fri Jul 5, 2013 8:59 pm

This is probably a little pre-mature, but considering what Golden State just did, and what Joe Dumars has done over the past, 5 years or so, I figured this topic was necessary.

I was always one of the few who defended Joe Dumars and thought he was doing as much as he could. But with the rumors surrounding the Pistons this offseason (resigning Calderon, not offering contracts to any of his top free agents, etc.), I think his time is long over. He doesn't seem to have a clear direction, and hasn't for a long time. He unnecessarily gave up a future first to drop cap to get into this free agency, severely hindering our ability to make trades. And then he hasn't even made any offers to the top free agents.

Our team needs talent, and at this point if he doesn't sign Josh Smith I will be severely disappointed. If his main acquisitions this offseason are Rondo and or Gay, then he should absolutely be fired. We could've traded for them, and made much better offers before removing our ability to offer future firsts for the foreseeable future. Now trading for them is highly unlikely anyway, as we can't throw in first round picks, and giving up Monroe for either of them (but especially Gay) would be another franchise hindering move.

Just a rant of mine because I'm getting very frustrated with the current state of the Pistons. Also, I've been writing this for about 10-15 minutes now, so if an article about this was made while I was making mine, I apologize. Not trying to double post.

DetroitPistons · Post #2 » by **DetroitPistons** » Fri Jul 5, 2013 9:04 pm

We already have a fire Dumars thread...

Natopher · Post #3 » by **Natopher** » Fri Jul 5, 2013 9:06 pm

Yeah, I didn't see that before. My bad.

Post #4 » by **Snakebites** » Fri Jul 5, 2013 9:08 pm

This isn't premature.

Whether or not Dumars should be fired has been a legitimate question for nearly 4 years now and an obvious answer (yes) for nearly as long as that.

Sheeeeed · Post #5 » by **Sheeeeed** » Fri Jul 5, 2013 9:10 pm

Signing Smith to play SF is just as stupid as giving up Monroe for Gay or Rondo. I can see Monroe having to be moved during the season out of necessity because of the horrible fit with Smith. Signing Smith is just going to lead to another **** situation like the Gordon signing when they already had Stuckey, and Rip.

Joe Berry · Post #6 » by **Joe Berry** » Fri Jul 5, 2013 9:11 pm

2008 was the year Saunders was fired, and Mike Curry was hired as HC.

also this happened:

November 3 2008
Traded guard Chauncey Billups, forward Antonio McDyess and center Cheikh Samb to the Denver Nuggets for guard Allen Iverson.

He should have been fired long ago, Mr. D passed away and only god knows why Gores kept him in place, he needs to go asap, other than some ok draft picks he made this franchise worse every year.

Q00 · Post #7 » by **Q00** » Fri Jul 5, 2013 9:14 pm

I voted yes if he doesn't get a high level talent somehow. He''s on the last year of his contract. He designated this offseason as the one thats going to make a major improvement. If he comes away with nothing but role players, we're going to be nothing but another lotto team next year. At which point he should be fired. Especially when he passed on a franchise PG potential star in the draft, banking on getting one in FA/trades instead, and then coming up with nothing. Joe needs to get Rondo and/or Smith to save his job in my book. Just bringing back this same team, plus a couple role player, and minus our 2014 draft pick is not going to get it done.

Post #8 » by **theBigLip** » Fri Jul 5, 2013 9:16 pm

Joe Asberry wrote:2008 was the year Saunders was fired, and Mike Curry was hired as HC.

also this happened:

November 3 2008
Traded guard Chauncey Billups, forward Antonio McDyess and center Cheikh Samb to the Denver Nuggets for guard Allen Iverson.

He should have been fired long ago, Mr. D passed away and only god knows why Gores kept him in place, he needs to go asap, other than some ok draft picks he made this franchise worse every year.

I was ok with the Iverson trade. We didn't know he would implode, but that was also at a time when CP3 and DWill just came into the league and making Billups look pretty slow. But we had AI's $20M expiring contract along with Sheeds $18M expiring, and our problem is we didn't do anything good with that money. The trade was a legit attempt to fix the team.

Q00 · Post #9 » by **Q00** » Fri Jul 5, 2013 9:17 pm

Sheeeeed wrote:Signing Smith to play SF is just as stupid as giving up Monroe for Gay or Rondo. I can see Monroe having to be moved during the season out of necessity because of the horrible fit with Smith. Signing Smith is just going to lead to another **** situation like the Gordon signing when they already had Stuckey, and Rip.

That doesn't make sense considering Smith and Rondo are vastly superior talents than Rip, Gordon, and Stuckey were at that time. Also if you trade Monroe for Rondo, then there is no issue of how Smith fits with Monroe.

mindbender · Post #10 » by **mindbender** » Fri Jul 5, 2013 9:17 pm

Natopher wrote:This is probably a little pre-mature, but considering what Golden State just did, and what Joe Dumars has done over the past, 5 years or so, I figured this topic was necessary.

I was always one of the few who defended Joe Dumars and thought he was doing as much as he could. But with the rumors surrounding the Pistons this offseason (resigning Calderon, not offering contracts to any of his top free agents, etc.), I think his time is long over. He doesn't seem to have a clear direction, and hasn't for a long time. He unnecessarily gave up a future first to drop cap to get into this free agency, severely hindering our ability to make trades. And then he hasn't even made any offers to the top free agents.

Our team needs talent, and at this point if he doesn't sign Josh Smith I will be severely disappointed. If his main acquisitions this offseason are Rondo and or Gay, then he should absolutely be fired. We could've traded for them, and made much better offers before removing our ability to offer future firsts for the foreseeable future. Now trading for them is highly unlikely anyway, as we can't throw in first round picks, and giving up Monroe for either of them (but especially Gay) would be another franchise hindering move.

Just a rant of mine because I'm getting very frustrated with the current state of the Pistons. Also, I've been writing this for about 10-15 minutes now, so if an article about this was made while I was making mine, I apologize. Not trying to double post.

[quote="Natopher"]This is probably a little pre-mature, but considering what Golden State just did, and what Joe Dumars has done over the past, 5 years or so, I figured this topic was necessary.

Everybody was really happy that we had the cap space heading free agency. Guess what, Dumars has probably learned his lesson when it comes to FA. I'm relatively happy he hasn't done anything yet tbh, because I believe there will be far better options for us as we wait. The only way I can see us get back to championship contention is to aquire solid pieces (role players) because I believe that there are no 1st tier FAs that has a fit with us ayways. I think this whole GS thing is a blessing in disguise. Now that Igoudala is gone, I hope the Rockets signs Smoove next.

Post #11 » by **theBigLip** » Fri Jul 5, 2013 9:19 pm

I voted "maybe", but how can we judge Dumars on this offseason yet? Should we have overpaid for Iggy or Tyreke or traded for Bargnani? There is a whole lot of action that is waiting for Dwight to announce, and then we'll see how effective Dumars is.

If you thought Dumars should have been fired BEFORE this offseason, then that's another story, but it is waaaay too early to give him a report card on this offseason.

Natopher · Post #12 » by **Natopher** » Fri Jul 5, 2013 9:26 pm

Our team needs to add talent. We already have/had a lot of solid role players on this team. Bynum, Knight, Singler, Middleton, Jerebko (I still believe in him). Our problem is that there's not enough separation in talent between our starters and our bench guys. That's why I'm upset that Joe hasn't made a serious move to acquire Smith or Iggy. Obviously it takes both parties being interested for a deal to be made, and Iggy clearly wasn't, but we need talent. Monroe is still our best player, and Drummond is our second best. KCP has the potential to be really good for us, but we don't know how good he'll be starting out. Knight is inconsistent and it wouldn't be smart to bank on him being more than a solid role player at this point. If we can't add elite talent, we're going to be a team with solid depth but not enough talent to separate ourselves from other teams.

Sheeeeed · Post #13 » by **Sheeeeed** » Fri Jul 5, 2013 9:27 pm

Q00 wrote:
Sheeeeed wrote:Signing Smith to play SF is just as stupid as giving up Monroe for Gay or Rondo. I can see Monroe having to be moved during the season out of necessity because of the horrible fit with Smith. Signing Smith is just going to lead to another **** situation like the Gordon signing when they already had Stuckey, and Rip.

That doesn't make sense considering Smith and Rondo are vastly superior talents than Rip, Gordon, and Stuckey were at that time. Also if you trade Monroe for Rondo, then there is no issue of how Smith fits with Monroe.

Buffoonery to everything Goldtop/Filp Bayless

Q00 · Post #14 » by **Q00** » Fri Jul 5, 2013 9:44 pm

Sheeeeed wrote:
Q00 wrote:
Sheeeeed wrote:Signing Smith to play SF is just as stupid as giving up Monroe for Gay or Rondo. I can see Monroe having to be moved during the season out of necessity because of the horrible fit with Smith. Signing Smith is just going to lead to another **** situation like the Gordon signing when they already had Stuckey, and Rip.

That doesn't make sense considering Smith and Rondo are vastly superior talents than Rip, Gordon, and Stuckey were at that time. Also if you trade Monroe for Rondo, then there is no issue of how Smith fits with Monroe.

Buffoonery to everything Goldtop/Filp Bayless

what does this mean?

princeofpalace · Post #15 » by **princeofpalace** » Fri Jul 5, 2013 9:58 pm

Joe D's biggest failure was not tearing everything down to rebuild. Id be willing to give him 1 additional year to see what he can do. He has put us in a solid position with capspace and youth, rebuilding takes time, and if this is the year that he chooses as the rebuilding year- then Im fine with that- more power to him. However, if he uses this offseason to retool (ie sign medicore FA's) and we end up a lottery team without a pick- then its time to let him go

russkopp · Post #16 » by **russkopp** » Fri Jul 5, 2013 10:15 pm

If I see Monta Ellis in a Pistons jersey, as a desperation signing, this will signal the end of my love for Pistons basketball. At least I have the Detroit Shock...wait...

retrolenny · Post #17 » by **retrolenny** » Fri Jul 5, 2013 10:16 pm

I LOVE that Joe hasn't wasted all our money. We could make a huge splash just by Joe getting back to his roots.

Calderon, Billups or Jack/Bynum
Pope/BK
Landry, Chandler/Singler/Mitchell
Moose/JJ
Dre/Slava or Ben

We don't need to spend our way out of this. We need a leader at the point. Calderon, Billups, or Jack can handle that. We need a starting SF and a backup PF. I have a hard time believing we cannot accomplish this unless we use up all our cap space!!!

We're going to trade Stuck & CV at some point and will probably get rid of one or both of JJ & Singler. Things will happen this summer. Mark my words!!!

mindbender · Post #18 » by **mindbender** » Fri Jul 5, 2013 10:22 pm

princeofpalace wrote:Joe D's biggest failure was not tearing everything down to rebuild. Id be willing to give him 1 additional year to see what he can do. He has put us in a solid position with capspace and youth, rebuilding takes time, and if this is the year that he chooses as the rebuilding year- then Im fine with that- more power to him. However, if he uses this offseason to retool (ie sign medicore FA's) and we end up a lottery team without a pick- then its time to let him go

Count that baby and a foul!

mindbender · Post #19 » by **mindbender** » Fri Jul 5, 2013 10:26 pm

retrolenny wrote:I LOVE that Joe hasn't wasted all our money. We could make a huge splash just by Joe getting back to his roots.

Calderon, Billups or Jack/Bynum
Pope/BK
Landry, Chandler/Singler/Mitchell
Moose/JJ
Dre/Slava or Ben

We don't need to spend our way out of this. We need a leader at the point. Calderon, Billups, or Jack can handle that. We need a starting SF and a backup PF. I have a hard time believing we cannot accomplish this unless we use up all our cap space!!!

We're going to trade Stuck & CV at some point and will probably get rid of one or both of JJ & Singler. Things will happen this summer. Mark my words!!!

If somehow we manage to get rid of Stuckey and end up with Chauncey then I'd be happy to call it a decent off-season. I just don't understand why people would hate Dumars right now when he is doing the franchise a favor by doing nothing in these desperate times. Im glad he isn't Bryan Colangelo lol

ImHeisenberg · Post #20 » by **ImHeisenberg** » Fri Jul 5, 2013 11:05 pm

Natopher wrote: I figured this topic was necessary.

I don't know how there ever being another "fire Dumars" topic is necessary. There's been dozens upon dozens.

I'm happy he didn't give Igoudala 15 million a year to be the fourth option for this team, and cripple the cap space. Whether it was him, or Igoudala saving us from his fate, we'll never be sure.

When people call for Dumars' head, I can understand a lot of their logic. Then, I take a look around the NBA landscape, and ask myself, what other small market teams (because Detroit is ABSOLUTELY small market now) have even whiffed at what Detroit has accomplished over the last decade?

1 championship, back to back finals appearances, a string of 50+ win seasons and conference finals appearances, no less than 4 all stars.

You see Milwaukee doing anything of note in the last 20 years? Cleveland? Charlotte/New Orleans? Memphis? Sacramento? Portland? All these teams have been toiling away for 2+ decades. Maybe having one conference finals run then falling apart.

If you're not LA or New York, it's incredibly difficult to field a contender year after year when you aren't a major free agent destination. LeBron James didn't have a problem leaving his hometown where he was idolized for the sunny beaches of tax-free Florida. Pau Gasol didn't miss Memphis for one second on his way to LA.

All things considered- Dumars has done a fantastic job with the limited resources he's had. People think that somehow he's responsible for where players do and do not sign. That's simply stupid. He can't force Igoudala or Josh Smith to sign in Detroit, when other teams that are better fits or more competitive can offer just as much or more money.

Give it a break, people. No NBA GM bats 100/100.

*mic drop

Should Joe Dumars be fired?