Big Al's Paint: The Al Jefferson Thread

[BeesWax]

He improves us enough to make us a bad spot lottery team but not enough to make us a real winner. He may sneak us into getting swept as the 8th seed again. I was a poor signing brought on by whiny fans who don't understand how to build a team and just wanted something to happen.

You've said the same thing literally 25 times.

On a positive note it got him off his Zeller rant where he posted the same thing 50 times. Put on your big boy pants and deal with it. There is a reason we all aren't NBA GMs and to be fair there are only a handful of successful GMs in the league. Let it play out. IMO opinion this collective group hasn't made a bad move yet.

So no GM has ever made mistakes. You can't defend either pick with anything close to a fact and so you attack me. I kept waiting for someone to show some sign of proof that either has been a good thing and nobody can. IMO this team started off ok then gave up on the plan and ruined all the work and the mess we wait through. If we waited so long for Jefferson and Zeller there was no reason to ever be half as bad as we were.

[BeesWax]

I think we need to define treadmill.

A team with Kemba, MKG, Zeller and Biz is very young and can improve significantly. We've already seen Kemba do that.

The 8th seed in the playoffs doesn't make us a treadmill team, it makes us a new playoff team with lots of youth plus a pick from DET and POR to add to the rebuild.

The team has not reached its potential. To call them a treadmill team translates to you basically thinking none of these young players has the capacity to improve at all.

Biz will not improve at the rate he should with a ball hog black hole playing ahead of him. Zeller will be stunted as well due to lack of touches and you could say the same for MKG. We would have been better giving the time Jefferson is going to get to Biz and McRoberts and then giving his touches to Zeller, who has to learn a new position on offense and defense, and MKG who needs reps as a scorer to get better. There is no substitute of game minutes and we are going to give them to a 28 year old black hole.

My defenition of treadmill is a team that is not doing what it needs to get better either as a team or building a team. When you hold back your youth but don't improve the rest of the team enough to be good, you are on the treadmill. This team likely peaks at 7th seed and barely misses other years. In other words wont get better through the draft and won't improve enough on the court either.

OK so you admit that these are talented young players so what makes us a treadmill team in your eyes is reduced development time? Teams can be competitive while rebuilding at the same time. The amount of playing time a player receives doesn't necessarily equate to linear development. In some situations, assimilation of a player is more effective as a gradual process where younger players share time with veterans whose strengths serve as a model for them. Sometimes, too much time, too soon, can expose a young players flaws, shake his confidence and force him to do things he's not ready to do. So sometimes too much playing time can become counterproductive and hinder development. I think maybe you feel increased minutes equate to increased production. They're correlated but time does not always maximize production. Sometimes it exaggerates inefficiencies. Did Byron Mullens develop with more playing time? Nope. He became a nightmare and he's out of a job now. So much for increased playing time to young players who haven't learned enough to know what to do with it.

Bottom line is, some young players handle globs of playing time heaped upon them and grow and develop. Others must be placed in situations where they may achieve success in order to fully realize their potential - and that's not every situation, every time, with unlimited minutes.

Increased time equals increased knowledge. That is a basic fundamental part of any and every sport. Game action can never be replicated in practice. There is no substitute for learning to think during action. The only time playing to much to early hurts is if you have confidence problems. None of our guys lack confidence or effort. We won't improve like the plan was and we will be in the same spot when Jefferson leaves as when he got here. That to me is treadmill. Staying put for no reason whatsoever. We are losing time and losing assets due to this signing and Zeller is so far behind at this point he needed a lot more touches to develop that he will now lose to the Black Hole.

[Liver_Pooty]

Kanter and Favors have stated how much Jefferson HELPED them grow. Its what Biyombo needs.

[Logander]

You can use the black hole excuse all you want but whose to say hes going to do that here as well? We have a different team than the Jazz, he could end up meshing well with the rest of our starters and end up spreading the ball around more. Only time will tell.

[BigSlam]

Richard Jefferson, in particular, seems like he'd be a good vet mentor for MKG

Grounds for a lifetime RGM ban right there BoB!!

[JDuaneWayne]

You've said the same thing literally 25 times.

On a positive note it got him off his Zeller rant where he posted the same thing 50 times. Put on your big boy pants and deal with it. There is a reason we all aren't NBA GMs and to be fair there are only a handful of successful GMs in the league. Let it play out. IMO opinion this collective group hasn't made a bad move yet.

So no GM has ever made mistakes. You can't defend either pick with anything close to a fact and so you attack me. I kept waiting for someone to show some sign of proof that either has been a good thing and nobody can. IMO this team started off ok then gave up on the plan and ruined all the work and the mess we wait through. If we waited so long for Jefferson and Zeller there was no reason to ever be half as bad as we were.

It's ludicrous for me to attempt to defend a Zeller pick without seeing him play, just as ludicrous as you all to cry foul. We don't know. He is sort of a flyer pick, I tend to think he has a lot of upside but lots of things have to come together.

I can defend the MKG pick, just let me know who I am defending it against. Give me any draft pick from last year and I can make a case why they shouldn't have been drafted and I'm giving you the benefit of hindsight and what we know now.

Our starters weren't the problem last year. If BG or Sessions didn't go for a lot of points we were getting next to nothing out of our bench. Good teams have good benches, which they develop.

We had two players who basically weren't playing and eating up 1/4 of our cap space. To say Cho walked into a bad situation was an understatement.

If you want to look at it as "attacking" you go ahead, but you've posted the same tireless rants over and over again, we get it. You hate the direction of the team. Repeating it won't change things. To me trying to establish a winning culture trumps anything one rookie player is going to bring to our team. If Lebron left Cleveland there was no guarantee anyone would stay in Charlotte. You make moves when you are afforded the opportunity. This is our first high profile free agent signing and should mark a change in times, but everyone is so upset about it. The culture of losing stinks on this franchise, even with the fans.

[KembaWalker]

Kanter and Favors have stated how much Jefferson HELPED them grow. Its what Biyombo needs.

this this this this this. jdm youre wrong. playtime is not the only way to develop. one good way is to invest in better coaches, and bring in knowledgeable teaching vets to help them. instead of going against Mullens and being taught by Rob "who?" Werdann, he'll be going head to head with Jefferson every day and being taught by Ewing. its not even a question to me that he will develop much more rapidly in the coming months. If you match up with Jefferson defensively in practice every day, man defense on gameday is going to be easy by comparison. its like getting tutored by PhDs instead of high school dropouts

[JMAC3]

I am really tired of debating this... It has been the same talk for the last three days, by the same people. Not really bringing anything new to the conversation...

I feel like its has been so much arguing we have not even really celebrated the signing and what he brings to this team. Honestly, You can not tell me adding Zeller and Jefferson to our frontcourt does not make us a significantly better team. Like we have been saying, it will be nice to see our backcourt play now that we are not playing 2.5 on 5 the whole game.

[JMAC3]

Also, @BrotherDave, I think it was you that was mad that we signed Jefferson even more because it meant us missing out on the Golden State salary dump, cant find the comment now. I'm so disapointed we missed out on Richard Jefferson, Biedrins and Brandon Rush... and all we got was Al Jefferson...

O don't forget those awesome draft picks that will end up being in the mid to late 20's...

[amcoolio]

I would have preferred to tank, but maybe this is the right move.

Kemba should be happy and could average 9 assists IMO.

18/9/2 and only 1 or 2 PG injuries away from the all star game

[Liver_Pooty]

I am really tired of debating this... It has been the same talk for the last three days, by the same people. Not really bringing anything new to the conversation...

I feel like its has been so much arguing we have not even really celebrated the signing and what he brings to this team. Honestly, You can not tell me adding Zeller and Jefferson to our frontcourt does not make us a significantly better team. Like we have been saying, it will be nice to see our backcourt play now that we are not playing 2.5 on 5 the whole game.

You and me both.

[Eoghan]

Honestly, You can not tell me adding Zeller and Jefferson to our frontcourt does not make us a significantly better team.

I can but it wouldn't be lock step with the consensus and therefor all I'd get is whining.

Also, @BrotherDave, I think it was you that was mad that we signed Jefferson even more because it meant us missing out on the Golden State salary dump, cant find the comment now. I'm so disapointed we missed out on Richard Jefferson, Biedrins and Brandon Rush... and all we got was Al Jefferson...

O don't forget those awesome draft picks that will end up being in the mid to late 20's...

Nope, wrong guy. I would have preferred the GSW trade of Bogut, Biedrins and whomever with 1st round picks but that was too good for the Bobcats to really entertain as possible. I'm not really mad about signing Jefferson so much as extremely nervous that the FO is putting us in place for the ultimate Lolcats debacle.

[Eoghan]

If you want to look at it as "attacking" you go ahead, but you've posted the same tireless rants over and over again, we get it. You hate the direction of the team. Repeating it won't change things. To me trying to establish a winning culture trumps anything one rookie player is going to bring to our team. If Lebron left Cleveland there was no guarantee anyone would stay in Charlotte. You make moves when you are afforded the opportunity. This is our first high profile free agent signing and should mark a change in times, but everyone is so upset about it. The culture of losing stinks on this franchise, even with the fans.

This kind of crap (talking about the sniping back and forth, not your post in particular, JDuaneWayne) is really making the board a chore to read for both sides. So let me explain to everyone how people can disagree without getting into a repetitive slapfight.

Negative Bobcat's fan: I think signing Jefferson was a big mistake for these reasons: (reasons).

Positive Bobcat's fan: I disagree for these reasons: (reasons) But you're entitled to your opinion.

Negative Bobcat's fan: Duly noted.

Positive Bobcat's fan: Quite.

The End.

This is a lot better than:

Negative Bobcat's fan: I think signing Jefferson was a big mistake for these reasons: (reasons).

Positive Bobcat's fan: Says the guy that: (something irrelevant and off-topic)

Negative Bobcat's fan: (Now defensive) What are you talking about? Clearly you're wrong about: (something irrelevant and off-topic).

3 different positive Bobcat's fans: "Blah blah blah" "So tired of these negative nancies" "If you don't like Cho you can git out!"

Butthurtness ensues.

The End.

[BigSlam]

Interesting light you paint the positive and negative Bobcat's fan's in there BD!

Either way, Big Al is here to stay (for who knows, how long?) so we all better get used to it.

And if having Big Al means not having to have Thomas and Mullens I can't see how anyone could be upset!

[Winglish]

@ the broken record calling Big Al the black hole:

Al Jefferson was 8th among all centers in the NBA in assists last year. You're like the guys who never acknowledged that Jason Kidd could shoot the three point shot because he was so bad at it early in his career. Then when Kidd shot over 40% for three years in a row people still thought he was a 20% shooter because that's what he had done for a few years to begin his career. Twenty-two teams in the NBA got fewer assists from their starting centers than the Utah Jazz last season. Let that soak in for awhile.

[Elden Payton]

I've been busy for the last few days and as soon as I logged in and seen this thread title my eyes just popped out of my head, I honestly thought Jefferson was a free agency smokescreen from Cho.

There are obviously positives and negatives to this signing as any but I'm just going to revel in the fact that Charlotte managed to snag a big name free agent, and Jefferson is a big name free agent no matter what anybody says, he is arguably the most talented player in Bobcats history, already.

"Cho me the money!"

[Logander]

@ the broken record calling Big Al the black hole:

Al Jefferson was 8th among all centers in the NBA in assists last year. You're like the guys who never acknowledged that Jason Kidd could shoot the three point shot because he was so bad at it early in his career. Then when Kidd shot over 40% for three years in a row people still thought he was a 20% shooter because that's what he had done for a few years to begin his career. Twenty-two teams in the NBA got fewer assists from their starting centers than the Utah Jazz last season. Let that soak in for awhile.

And 1 for you good sir.

[Logander]

I've been busy for the last few days and as soon as I logged in and seen this thread title my eyes just popped out of my head, I honestly thought Jefferson was a free agency smokescreen from Cho.

There are obviously positives and negatives to this signing as any but I'm just going to revel in the fact that Charlotte managed to snag a big name free agent, and Jefferson is a big name free agent no matter what anybody says, he is arguably the most talented player in Bobcats history, already.

"Cho me the money!"

I was one of the negative ones when it first happened, mainly because I think Al can get us to the 11-15 range in the lottery and I was pissed that we could miss out in this draft all together. But after a day thinking on it I came to the realization that we have a good chance of getting the DET or POR pick regardless, not to mention we have Gordons expiring contract to deal out. I honestly hope we either get top 10 or actually make the playoffs. I just don't want to get stuck in that late lottery pile. But nonetheless, I am excited about this pick up.

[Elden Payton]

I've been busy for the last few days and as soon as I logged in and seen this thread title my eyes just popped out of my head, I honestly thought Jefferson was a free agency smokescreen from Cho.

There are obviously positives and negatives to this signing as any but I'm just going to revel in the fact that Charlotte managed to snag a big name free agent, and Jefferson is a big name free agent no matter what anybody says, he is arguably the most talented player in Bobcats history, already.

"Cho me the money!"

I was one of the negative ones when it first happened, mainly because I think Al can get us to the 11-15 range in the lottery and I was pissed that we could miss out in this draft all together. But after a day thinking on it I came to the realization that we have a good chance of getting the DET or POR pick regardless, not to mention we have Gordons expiring contract to deal out. I honestly hope we either get top 10 or actually make the playoffs. I just don't want to get stuck in that late lottery pile. But nonetheless, I am excited about this pick up.

The thing that separates us from a treadmill team is the fact that we have a young core and plenty of upside left, most improvement will come from within imo.

Obviously we want one of the big name prospects but I truly believe our FO has spotted an opportunity to cement a regular playoff spot over the next few seasons and have made moves to do so, at this point playoff experience will only help Kemba, Gilcrist, Zeller and Biyombo.

I can understand people's disappointment we probably won't get Wiggins/Randle/Parker but I cannot understand how people are upset that we will at least be competitive? Ridiculous.

[vorbis]

i am so ready for the stupid term 'butthurt' to be put out to pasture forever. hate it so much.