Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 3

[stevemcqueen1]

OKC is still the best team in the West. Durant is better than Howard and Westbrook is better than Harden, but the margin isn't that big. If Houston added one more big piece that was better than Ibaka, they might close the gap.

The Spurs will be a bad match up for Houston for now. Super smart team versus a somewhat dumb team. But Houston has at least 5 years to let this play out, which is enough time for SA to have to renovate their roster.

The Clippers have a good team, but I'm not totally sold on them quite yet. I like what they've done this offseason although trading picks for a coach is absurd. But I think they only become a legit contender if Blake Griffin becomes a legit Superstar. He's been regressing, and the team has an iffy culture. But they've got the raw potential to be the top team in the West.

The Grizzlies are good but flawed. I think Houston leap frogs them.

I think Houston is clearly better than Golden State now.

I think Houston is now the third or fourth team in the West. And they should be there for a while with OKC and the Clippers.

[stevemcqueen1]

As I was saying previously, the new CBA doesn't allow for guys to get the fifth year and 7.5% raises in S&T scenarios; it's the same money for Dwight either way now.

Very much like the decision by Dwight based on basketball and winning. The Rockets have a far superior roster and a proven ability to acquire guys, and yes, the Lakers are a mess for a few years at a minimum and were just going to waste Howard's good years.

However, I think I speak for all of us when I say I really feel for all those poor Lakers fans.

Spoiler:

Oh, well then there is no reason for LA not to agree to a S&T if the contracts in return aren't bad. That's a major rule change. Basically makes picking up stars from other teams the summer they hit FA all but impossible unless they're an oddball like Dwight. I suppose it was akways going to have to be a strange player in a really bad situation to be the first to walk away from the 30 million.

[Kanyewest]

My impression of this offseason so far is that a lot of pretenders are playing musical chairs, making a ton of sketchy trades and signings only to remain flawed teams. After all this, the best teams in the NBA next season are still going to be Miami, San Antonio, Oklahoma City, and Chicago. And Miami is still probably going to win another title.

Boston and Philly made gutsy decisions to escape mediocrity by starting the process of going full on tank. But Boston still has to do something with Rondo and Philly probably has to do something with Turner. And it could completely blow up in their faces if they don't get very high draft picks this year.

The only teams at the bottom who've remained on a path to sustainable long term success are us and Cleveland IMO.

Sacramento has something in Cousins and McLemore, but they've got a bad culture there with serious leadership problems.

Orlando, Detroit, and Phoenix need stars, their fortunes could radically change if they get star players in the 2014 draft. As of today though, those teams are pretty flawed, pretty far away.

New Orleans is making some shaky decisions IMO. I like the Holiday acquisition. I really didn't like the decision to keep Eric Gordon. I didn't like the Rivers pick. And I don't love the Tyreke Evans move. They've got a good thing in Davis but that FO has made some serious mistakes at the SG position and it's going to be a problem.

It's still a four team league.

I agree with the conclusion that Miami is the favorite but I wouldn't forget mentioning Indiana and Brooklyn. I'm also interested in what the Warriors can do considering that they gave San Antonio a run for their money.

[TGW]

I wish the FO here was half as good as the one in Houston.

[Kanyewest]

OKC is still the best team in the West. Durant is better than Howard and Westbrook is better than Harden, but the margin isn't that big. If Houston added one more big piece that was better than Ibaka, they might close the gap.

The Spurs will be a bad match up for Houston for now. Super smart team versus a somewhat dumb team. But Houston has at least 5 years to let this play out, which is enough time for SA to have to renovate their roster.

The Clippers have a good team, but I'm not totally sold on them quite yet. I like what they've done this offseason although trading picks for a coach is absurd. But I think they only become a legit contender if Blake Griffin becomes a legit Superstar. He's been regressing, and the team has an iffy culture. But they've got the raw potential to be the top team in the West.

The Grizzlies are good but flawed. I think Houston leap frogs them.

I think Houston is clearly better than Golden State now.

I think Houston is now the third or fourth team in the West. And they should be there for a while with OKC and the Clippers.

OKC could be in a tough situation while Westbrook recovers from his knee surgery plus they lost Kevin Martin. They still have the rest of the offseason though to make a signing or two, although I'm not familiar with their cap situation.

[stevemcqueen1]

OKC is still the best team in the West. Durant is better than Howard and Westbrook is better than Harden, but the margin isn't that big. If Houston added one more big piece that was better than Ibaka, they might close the gap.

The Spurs will be a bad match up for Houston for now. Super smart team versus a somewhat dumb team. But Houston has at least 5 years to let this play out, which is enough time for SA to have to renovate their roster.

The Clippers have a good team, but I'm not totally sold on them quite yet. I like what they've done this offseason although trading picks for a coach is absurd. But I think they only become a legit contender if Blake Griffin becomes a legit Superstar. He's been regressing, and the team has an iffy culture. But they've got the raw potential to be the top team in the West.

The Grizzlies are good but flawed. I think Houston leap frogs them.

I think Houston is clearly better than Golden State now.

I think Houston is now the third or fourth team in the West. And they should be there for a while with OKC and the Clippers.

OKC could be in a tough situation while Westbrook recovers from his knee surgery plus they lost Kevin Martin. They still have the rest of the offseason though to make a signing or two, although I'm not familiar with their cap situation.

I think OKC will be fine without Martin and I don't think Westbrook will miss a ton of time. They are so flush and Martin is a flawed player who was making too much money. His new deal isn't nearly as bad, but 7.5 per year for four years still isn't good for OKC. He's essentially just a spot up shooter off the bench for them. They can get that for a lot cheaper. And they might already have it in Lamb.

The top end of their roster is so good that they have an advantage over every team but Miami there. But what separates them is they've got a very sustainable build. If their player development comes through again like it did with Durant, Ibaka, Westbrook, Green, and Harden, then thy've got some young talent to work with in Adams, Lamb, Roberson, and PJIII.

Personally, I didn't like Lamb, PJIII, or Adams as prospects. But they're undeniably talented, and if anyone can develop them, it's OKC. Perkins is expiring next year, getting rid of their only bad contract. Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka keep getting better. All they need are a few bodies to hold them over in the meantime.

[stevemcqueen1]

My impression of this offseason so far is that a lot of pretenders are playing musical chairs, making a ton of sketchy trades and signings only to remain flawed teams. After all this, the best teams in the NBA next season are still going to be Miami, San Antonio, Oklahoma City, and Chicago. And Miami is still probably going to win another title.

Boston and Philly made gutsy decisions to escape mediocrity by starting the process of going full on tank. But Boston still has to do something with Rondo and Philly probably has to do something with Turner. And it could completely blow up in their faces if they don't get very high draft picks this year.

The only teams at the bottom who've remained on a path to sustainable long term success are us and Cleveland IMO.

Sacramento has something in Cousins and McLemore, but they've got a bad culture there with serious leadership problems.

Orlando, Detroit, and Phoenix need stars, their fortunes could radically change if they get star players in the 2014 draft. As of today though, those teams are pretty flawed, pretty far away.

New Orleans is making some shaky decisions IMO. I like the Holiday acquisition. I really didn't like the decision to keep Eric Gordon. I didn't like the Rivers pick. And I don't love the Tyreke Evans move. They've got a good thing in Davis but that FO has made some serious mistakes at the SG position and it's going to be a problem.

It's still a four team league.

I agree with the conclusion that Miami is the favorite but I wouldn't forget mentioning Indiana and Brooklyn. I'm also interested in what the Warriors can do considering that they gave San Antonio a run for their money.

I think Brooklyn is a dysfunctional organization and I don't think they've really built a true contender that is sustainable and well conceived. It's got a hodge podge feel to it like LA did last season. And Kidd is a sketchy hiring choice IMO. He's going to be learning on the job and this team only has about a one or two year window with KG and Pierce.

I like Indiana, but I think they've got a flawed team and they're in a bind. Their front court is terrific, but they spent all of their money on it. Granger's salary will come off only to be immediately replaced by George's extension. Their guard situation is horrible, probably the worst in the NBA, and they've got no realistic avenues for improvement there with no money and low draft picks. George Hill's contract is bad. I don't think they can beat Miami or a healthy Chicago. And in fact, I like the long term prospects of both Cleveland and DC over theirs. Better, more balanced builds with more flexibility.

Indy is to be commended though for doing so well with relatively late draft picks in George, Granger, and Hibbert though. They draft well.

[dckingsfan]

I think Brooklyn is a dysfunctional organization and I don't think they've really built a true contender that is sustainable and well conceived. It's got a hodge podge feel to it like LA did last season. And Kidd is a sketchy hiring choice IMO. He's going to be learning on the job and this team only has about a one or two year window with KG and Pierce.

I like Kidd as a hire - and I think he could bring the most out of that team. I think he will end up being a terrific coach.

Williams, Johnson, Pierce, KG, Lopez is a big starting group that could give Miami fits.

The bentch is problematic with Blatche, Terry, Teletovic but the inevitable signings of FAs that want to win a title should take care of the problem.

[dckingsfan]

Anyway you look at it though, baring injuries there is a big 4 in the east - Miami, Indy, Brooklyn and Chicago. I personally have Chicago coming out of the east next year - but not by much.

If I am a NY Knicks fan, I am most annoyed.

[deneem4]

Golden state is the most dangerous team in the west
With the rockets closing in...
Okc is still in the top 3
Spurs is the spurs
Denver will be scary as well...especially if theyre healthy
Clippers is lookin like a nice team...oncs deandre gets traded theyll be better
Timberwolves is going to supries alot of people especially if Kevin love ummm exist??
Hornets will make it to th playoffss
Portland still needs a bench
Lakers need help
Jazz is confusing
Dallas who?
Phoenix rest in bledsoe hands
Sactown needs a direction

[FAH1223]

OKC is still the best team in the West. Durant is better than Howard and Westbrook is better than Harden, but the margin isn't that big. If Houston added one more big piece that was better than Ibaka, they might close the gap.

The Spurs will be a bad match up for Houston for now. Super smart team versus a somewhat dumb team. But Houston has at least 5 years to let this play out, which is enough time for SA to have to renovate their roster.

The Clippers have a good team, but I'm not totally sold on them quite yet. I like what they've done this offseason although trading picks for a coach is absurd. But I think they only become a legit contender if Blake Griffin becomes a legit Superstar. He's been regressing, and the team has an iffy culture. But they've got the raw potential to be the top team in the West.

The Grizzlies are good but flawed. I think Houston leap frogs them.

I think Houston is clearly better than Golden State now.

I think Houston is now the third or fourth team in the West. And they should be there for a while with OKC and the Clippers.

OKC as currently constituted with a jump shooting team and no inside scoring to speak of is not the best team in the West. Too much uncertainty with them as Brooks will be forced to replace Martin with Lamb. I think they are still top 3 but even with Russ, I just don't see them in the finals

San Antonio is still the best team and I really believe they will win the West again after the debacle of the finals. Duncan still has a lot left, Parker is in his prime, their young players are on the upward track, and they just are a well oiled machine. All they need is another wing behind Leonard to replace Captain Jack and for Splitter to grow a pair in the clutch moments.

[FAH1223]

BTW... LIN and ASIK are getting $8 million per year with Houston.

If the Knicks and Bulls matched the offer sheet that Houston signed them to last year, then their salaries would have been $5 million, $5 million, and then $15 million.

Morey poison pilled the deal and then structured it favorably after he got them in his lap.

[LyricalRico]

Seems like this has been explained in multiple threads...but there wasn't anything special Morey did to "poison pill" the deals (in fact that term applies to a very different scenario). It's actually the 'Gilbert Arenas rule', where the cap hit is calculated differently from the actual money being paid out. Houston is still paying them 5/5/15 in actual dollars, but the cap hit is 8/8/8 under the rule

Any team that had signed them would have had the contracts structured the same way since it's in the rule. Morey didn't do anything special.

[Rafael122]

Also congrats to the boy wonder Sam Presti who had a hand in making Howard to Houston happen!

[stevemcqueen1]

I think Brooklyn is a dysfunctional organization and I don't think they've really built a true contender that is sustainable and well conceived. It's got a hodge podge feel to it like LA did last season. And Kidd is a sketchy hiring choice IMO. He's going to be learning on the job and this team only has about a one or two year window with KG and Pierce.

I like Kidd as a hire - and I think he could bring the most out of that team. I think he will end up being a terrific coach.

Williams, Johnson, Pierce, KG, Lopez is a big starting group that could give Miami fits.

The bentch is problematic with Blatche, Terry, Teletovic but the inevitable signings of FAs that want to win a title should take care of the problem.

I think Kidd can be a terrific HC in time. But to start his career, he's going to be learning on the job and it might not be pretty. He has literally, 0 coaching experience at any level. He knows the game no doubt, but being a HC is so much more than just knowing the Xs and Os. He's got a lot of big egos to juggle now.

The way the team is constructed, they don't have a ton of time to wait on him to grow as a coach.

[stevemcqueen1]

OKC as currently constituted with a jump shooting team and no inside scoring to speak of is not the best team in the West. Too much uncertainty with them as Brooks will be forced to replace Martin with Lamb. I think they are still top 3 but even with Russ, I just don't see them in the finals

San Antonio is still the best team and I really believe they will win the West again after the debacle of the finals. Duncan still has a lot left, Parker is in his prime, their young players are on the upward track, and they just are a well oiled machine. All they need is another wing behind Leonard to replace Captain Jack and for Splitter to grow a pair in the clutch moments.

I wouldn't be so quick to bury OKC. They're on an upward track too, and OKC won 60 games last year and was the one seed. KMart was hardly a key reason for that. He was a spot up three point shooter off the bench. Spot up three point shooters are the most available player in the league, they can replace his production in FA with a cheap contract.

OKC overwhelmed what looked like an invincible SA team two years ago to get to the Finals. They are the paper to SA's rock. I don't see how SA is going to beat them now that Westbrook, Durant, and Ibaka have all gotten better. And they are going to keep getting better still. Westbrook is a terrible match up for Parker and SA has no answer whatsoever for Durant. They defended LeBron and Wade largely by packing the paint. That's the worst thing to do against Durant.

SA is really really good and it's close. But OKC is better. They've got the second best player in the game. And it's a big drop off to #3. He's a complete player now, excellent passer, rebounder, defender, and the best inside-out scorer in the World. And he's still just 24, still getting better.

[Kanyewest]

I'm worried about OKC's team because of Westbrook's knee injury. I'm not sure if it is as severe but Gilbert Arenas also tore his meniscus. If Westbrook can back to 100%, they can probably be back on top again. Still, there is the risk that Westbrook's knee injury could be career altering/threatening .

[nuposse04]

Josh Smith to the Pistons...I wonder what the asking price for Monroe is....

*Btw, some rather odd FA destinations this offseason. Milsap, Iggy now Smith.

[stevemcqueen1]

Anyway you look at it though, baring injuries there is a big 4 in the east - Miami, Indy, Brooklyn and Chicago. I personally have Chicago coming out of the east next year - but not by much.

If I am a NY Knicks fan, I am most annoyed.

No, I don't think it's a big four. I think it's a two team conference. I do not think Indy and Brooklyn are real contenders. Indy is the same flawed team they were last year, they caught Miami when they were playing some of their worst basketball and still couldn't beat them. And if they match up with Chicago and a healthy Rose, they can't beat them either.

Brooklyn has a lot of new pieces, but none of them are particularly great. The roster is absurdly overpriced, they've got no draft picks, and the team has no upside at all. Lopez is probably the only player on the team who still has a little room for growth. He's arguably their best player, but will probably end up being fourth or fifth on the food chain. KG, Pierce, and Crash Wallace are all in major decline. Joe Johnson is terrible and has one of the worst contracts in the NBA. Deron Williams isn't the player he was in Utah. And their HC has 0 coaching experience.

Let's be real, this experiment is going to crash and burn. The team has a one or two year window and it's not nearly as good as Miami. They chucked sustainability to the wind.

The Knicks were never real contenders anyway. They basically got screwed by Amare being such an enormous bust. They're in the same boat as Brooklyn.

[stevemcqueen1]

I'm worried about OKC's team because of Westbrook's knee injury. I'm not sure if it is as severe but Gilbert Arenas also tore his meniscus. If Westbrook can back to 100%, they can probably be back on top again. Still, there is the risk that Westbrook's knee injury could be career altering/threatening .

Didn't hear anything to suggest it was that serious. It's a huge loss if he doesn't come back the player he was before. But even if he misses a fair chunk of time to start next season, OKC still has Durant. It's similar to how Miami will always be fine so long as they have LeBron.