BREAKING **** NEWS: Deal #done Knicks acquire Bargnani

[nykballa2k4]

Not sure why people are against this trade... we gave up

Camby - Someone who did nothing but sit on the bench and didnt even play in the playoffs

Novak - Someone who is useless if he's not making his shots

& a couple draft picks ??

Correct me if im wrong here but both Amare and Tyson will have expiring contracts by 2014/2015 season, cant we just move one of those expiring and like receive some future picks in return + some pieces in return

Here is the issue. Let's say we wanted to take a year off and re-tool when big contracts expire and there is no one good willing to come in. We have nothing to tank for.

The bigger issue to me though is that draft picks are essentially our only trade chip. If, say, we wanted to get Elton Brand in a sign and trade, we could have used a non-guaranteed contract and 2nd round picks (currency) to obtain him at a slightly larger contract. Being that we can trade the 2016 pick, that means we have 2015 and 2017. If we had not traded away our only pick in 2016, we would become eligible to trade 2015/2017 picks after the 2014 draft. This is important since after 2014, our assets would have been looking good (expiring contracts, THjr, 2 first round picks) and that off-season we could have been poised to make a serious re-load and add on significant talent.

Now we basically are in treadmill mode unless Amare gets knees and Bargnani gets heart. As a Knick fan, I had the same hopes in the early 2000's when we had Allan Houston on his contract and Tim Thomas newly acquired. We were bounced in the first round and we had some ifs. Marbury was going to be great, that was a given, but Houston had to rehab those knees, and Tim Thomas just had to give a damn.

Let me remind you this story ends with the following names: Sweetney, Lampe, Vranes, Williams, Balkman, Collins, Robinson, Frye, Lee, Ariza (in no particular order)

So next up: after 2016, we max extend an older beat up Melo, and trade every asset for a center with no cajones and a love of buffets.

[kNicksGmen]

Not sure why people are against this trade... we gave up

Camby - Someone who did nothing but sit on the bench and didnt even play in the playoffs

Novak - Someone who is useless if he's not making his shots

& a couple draft picks ??

Correct me if im wrong here but both Amare and Tyson will have expiring contracts by 2014/2015 season, cant we just move one of those expiring and like receive some future picks in return + some pieces in return

Here is the issue. Let's say we wanted to take a year off and re-tool when big contracts expire and there is no one good willing to come in. We have nothing to tank for.

The bigger issue to me though is that draft picks are essentially our only trade chip. If, say, we wanted to get Elton Brand in a sign and trade, we could have used a non-guaranteed contract and 2nd round picks (currency) to obtain him at a slightly larger contract. Being that we can trade the 2016 pick, that means we have 2015 and 2017. If we had not traded away our only pick in 2016, we would become eligible to trade 2015/2017 picks after the 2014 draft. This is important since after 2014, our assets would have been looking good (expiring contracts, THjr, 2 first round picks) and that off-season we could have been poised to make a serious re-load and add on significant talent.

Now we basically are in treadmill mode unless Amare gets knees and Bargnani gets heart. As a Knick fan, I had the same hopes in the early 2000's when we had Allan Houston on his contract and Tim Thomas newly acquired. We were bounced in the first round and we had some ifs. Marbury was going to be great, that was a given, but Houston had to rehab those knees, and Tim Thomas just had to give a damn.

Let me remind you this story ends with the following names: Sweetney, Lampe, Vranes, Williams, Balkman, Collins, Robinson, Frye, Lee, Ariza (in no particular order)

So next up: after 2016, we max extend an older beat up Melo, and trade every asset for a center with no cajones and a love of buffets.

we have our pick in 2015. the 2016 pick had very little value because denver owns the rights to swap. 2nd round picks are 2nd round picks, almost worthless.

we also would have never been allowed to trade the 2015 pick regardless, because we traded the '14 pick a long time ago. can't trade picks in back to back years. trading the '16 pick had no bearing on our ability to trade the '15 pick. you are however correct about the '17 pick. i actually like it better that we're not allowed to trade it.

[Dr. Detfink]

People need to stop putting Bargnani and Hibbert in the same sentence. Bargnani is here to play power forward alongside Melo or a defensive minded small forward. Bargnani/Amare/Leslie? will likely be our power forward unit with Chandler/FA playing center

Yea, I was having a brain lesion removed when trying to put the game stats down. That said, my response was retort to the fact, AIN'T NO WAY Bargs is going to be a "defensive small forward" or to play PF alongside Melo. I just can't see that working.

Like you said, the Pacers destroyed the Knicks on the boards. Bargs is NOT a very good rebounder. He's a perimeter guy.

So I don't know...I just don't know. Are the Knicks better from what they gave up? Yes. How much better? I just can't say.

[JustaKnickFan]

Not sure why people are against this trade... we gave up

Camby - Someone who did nothing but sit on the bench and didnt even play in the playoffs

Novak - Someone who is useless if he's not making his shots

& a couple draft picks ??

Correct me if im wrong here but both Amare and Tyson will have expiring contracts by 2014/2015 season, cant we just move one of those expiring and like receive some future picks in return + some pieces in return

Here is the issue. Let's say we wanted to take a year off and re-tool when big contracts expire and there is no one good willing to come in. We have nothing to tank for.

The bigger issue to me though is that draft picks are essentially our only trade chip. If, say, we wanted to get Elton Brand in a sign and trade, we could have used a non-guaranteed contract and 2nd round picks (currency) to obtain him at a slightly larger contract. Being that we can trade the 2016 pick, that means we have 2015 and 2017. If we had not traded away our only pick in 2016, we would become eligible to trade 2015/2017 picks after the 2014 draft. This is important since after 2014, our assets would have been looking good (expiring contracts, THjr, 2 first round picks) and that off-season we could have been poised to make a serious re-load and add on significant talent.

Now we basically are in treadmill mode unless Amare gets knees and Bargnani gets heart. As a Knick fan, I had the same hopes in the early 2000's when we had Allan Houston on his contract and Tim Thomas newly acquired. We were bounced in the first round and we had some ifs. Marbury was going to be great, that was a given, but Houston had to rehab those knees, and Tim Thomas just had to give a damn.

Let me remind you this story ends with the following names: Sweetney, Lampe, Vranes, Williams, Balkman, Collins, Robinson, Frye, Lee, Ariza (in no particular order)

So next up: after 2016, we max extend an older beat up Melo, and trade every asset for a center with no cajones and a love of buffets.

we have our pick in 2015. the 2016 pick had very little value because denver owns the rights to swap. 2nd round picks are 2nd round picks, almost worthless.

we also would have never been allowed to trade the 2015 pick regardless, because we traded the '14 pick a long time ago. can't trade picks in back to back years. trading the '16 pick had no bearing on our ability to trade the '15 pick. you are however correct about the '17 pick. i actually like it better that we're not allowed to trade it.

The 2016 pick holds plenty of value. It's still a first rounder, and who's to say both Denver and New York aren't so hot in 2016?

[kNicksGmen]

Here is the issue. Let's say we wanted to take a year off and re-tool when big contracts expire and there is no one good willing to come in. We have nothing to tank for.

The bigger issue to me though is that draft picks are essentially our only trade chip. If, say, we wanted to get Elton Brand in a sign and trade, we could have used a non-guaranteed contract and 2nd round picks (currency) to obtain him at a slightly larger contract. Being that we can trade the 2016 pick, that means we have 2015 and 2017. If we had not traded away our only pick in 2016, we would become eligible to trade 2015/2017 picks after the 2014 draft. This is important since after 2014, our assets would have been looking good (expiring contracts, THjr, 2 first round picks) and that off-season we could have been poised to make a serious re-load and add on significant talent.

Now we basically are in treadmill mode unless Amare gets knees and Bargnani gets heart. As a Knick fan, I had the same hopes in the early 2000's when we had Allan Houston on his contract and Tim Thomas newly acquired. We were bounced in the first round and we had some ifs. Marbury was going to be great, that was a given, but Houston had to rehab those knees, and Tim Thomas just had to give a damn.

Let me remind you this story ends with the following names: Sweetney, Lampe, Vranes, Williams, Balkman, Collins, Robinson, Frye, Lee, Ariza (in no particular order)

So next up: after 2016, we max extend an older beat up Melo, and trade every asset for a center with no cajones and a love of buffets.

we have our pick in 2015. the 2016 pick had very little value because denver owns the rights to swap. 2nd round picks are 2nd round picks, almost worthless.

we also would have never been allowed to trade the 2015 pick regardless, because we traded the '14 pick a long time ago. can't trade picks in back to back years. trading the '16 pick had no bearing on our ability to trade the '15 pick. you are however correct about the '17 pick. i actually like it better that we're not allowed to trade it.

The 2016 pick holds plenty of value. It's still a first rounder, and who's to say both Denver and New York aren't so hot in 2016?

late first round picks have value, just not a lot.

who's to say both denver and new york aren't so hot in 2016? common sense.

[Capn'O]

Denver has really had a remarkably bad offseason. With Gallo down it appears they're headed for the tank.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

People need to watch games and know WHY things don't work. The reason we were getting torched with a "conventional" line up is because the defense packed the paint and basically said "hey Kenyon, please take as many 18 footers as you like"

West barely guarded Melo. Melo at the 3/4 is rendered moot by the defense, regardless, playing their best match up on him (Bass, George, etc). The problem is our other guys were not good enough to take advantage of West/Pierce. Bargnani can play defense on West about as well as Melo or any other forwards we have (since we have none on the roster presently).

If we are playing Dre at center, we are going to suffer on the boards and it won't matter how well we create a hard shot, the teams will get 4 chances to take a 25% shot. The problem vs the Pacers was inefficient offense, poor double teams, and no rebounds. Bargnani is a mobile 7 foot guy, meaning he can bother shots from smaller power forwards. Also, because he is a scorer, he forces someone to actually guard him. He won't be getting those Shumpert looks all game.

Shump will still be out there... Bargs will most likely replace JR. If the only way to avoid getting shut down is to have a scorer at every position aside from C, then we need a new coach.

[JustaKnickFan]

[we have our pick in 2015. the 2016 pick had very little value because denver owns the rights to swap. 2nd round picks are 2nd round picks, almost worthless.

we also would have never been allowed to trade the 2015 pick regardless, because we traded the '14 pick a long time ago. can't trade picks in back to back years. trading the '16 pick had no bearing on our ability to trade the '15 pick. you are however correct about the '17 pick. i actually like it better that we're not allowed to trade it.

The 2016 pick holds plenty of value. It's still a first rounder, and who's to say both Denver and New York aren't so hot in 2016?

late first round picks have value, just not a lot.

who's to say both denver and new york aren't so hot in 2016? common sense.

Oh come on, you don't know the future and neither do I.

Who's to say Melo gets injured in 2016? Who's to say Melo declines by then because he's banging down low so much playing PF, and already has plenty of nagging injuries?

All I'm saying is that it's not a given that the pick in 2016 will be a late first.

Also, first round picks/early 2nd rounders have a lot of value in the league. With 1 more first, the Knicks could have gotten rid of Amar'e, Novak, and Camby (doing what GSW), and actually sign a good player.

I'm really tired of hearing the whole "these picks have no value", because they hold plenty value. In the new CBA, picks are incredibly value, and you need draft picks to contend. Like I said before, all contending teams have their fair share of draft steals.

[kNicksGmen]

The 2016 pick holds plenty of value. It's still a first rounder, and who's to say both Denver and New York aren't so hot in 2016?

late first round picks have value, just not a lot.

who's to say both denver and new york aren't so hot in 2016? common sense.

Oh come on, you don't know the future and neither do I.

Who's to say Melo gets injured in 2016? Who's to say Melo declines by then because he's banging down low so much playing PF, and already has plenty of nagging injuries?

All I'm saying is that it's not a given that the pick in 2016 will be a late first.

Also, first round picks/early 2nd rounders have a lot of value in the league. With 1 more first, the Knicks could have gotten rid of Amar'e, Novak, and Camby (doing what GSW), and actually sign a good player.

I'm really tired of hearing the whole "these picks have no value", because they hold plenty value. In the new CBA, picks are incredibly value, and you need draft picks to contend. Like I said before, all contending teams have their fair share of draft steals.

i'll concede that. but i think it's highly unlikely both are bad.

as far as 1 more pick and we'd be able to dump amare.., that still doesn't open that much cap space. also it would be harder to move amare/novak/camby than the guys the warriors moved due to the contract size/length. the guys the warriors moved were all expiring this year i believe, while amare still has another year at over 20 mil left on his deal and novak has several years left (camby too).

[Brooklyn_Yards]

The 2016 pick holds plenty of value. It's still a first rounder, and who's to say both Denver and New York aren't so hot in 2016?

late first round picks have value, just not a lot.

who's to say both denver and new york aren't so hot in 2016? common sense.

Oh come on, you don't know the future and neither do I.

Who's to say Melo gets injured in 2016? Who's to say Melo declines by then because he's banging down low so much playing PF, and already has plenty of nagging injuries?

All I'm saying is that it's not a given that the pick in 2016 will be a late first.

Also, first round picks/early 2nd rounders have a lot of value in the league. With 1 more first, the Knicks could have gotten rid of Amar'e, Novak, and Camby (doing what GSW), and actually sign a good player.

I'm really tired of hearing the whole "these picks have no value", because they hold plenty value. In the new CBA, picks are incredibly value, and you need draft picks to contend. Like I said before, all contending teams have their fair share of draft steals.

Beidris and Jefferson are both expiring, Amare, Camby, and Novak are not.

[JustaKnickFan]

late first round picks have value, just not a lot.

who's to say both denver and new york aren't so hot in 2016? common sense.

Oh come on, you don't know the future and neither do I.

Who's to say Melo gets injured in 2016? Who's to say Melo declines by then because he's banging down low so much playing PF, and already has plenty of nagging injuries?

All I'm saying is that it's not a given that the pick in 2016 will be a late first.

Also, first round picks/early 2nd rounders have a lot of value in the league. With 1 more first, the Knicks could have gotten rid of Amar'e, Novak, and Camby (doing what GSW), and actually sign a good player.

I'm really tired of hearing the whole "these picks have no value", because they hold plenty value. In the new CBA, picks are incredibly value, and you need draft picks to contend. Like I said before, all contending teams have their fair share of draft steals.

i'll concede that. but i think it's highly unlikely both are bad.

as far as 1 more pick and we'd be able to dump amare.., that still doesn't open that much cap space. also it would be harder to move amare/novak/camby than the guys the warriors moved due to the contract size/length. the guys the warriors moved were all expiring this year i believe, while amare still has another year at over 20 mil left on his deal and novak has several years left (camby too).

Even if they were expirings, this still goes to show how much first rounders can get done in this league. They managed to clear up over 20m in cap space for FA. Next year if the Knicks had some picks they could have done the same.

However, I guess Bargs + a 1st > 20+m in cap-space.

[kNicksGmen]

Oh come on, you don't know the future and neither do I.

Who's to say Melo gets injured in 2016? Who's to say Melo declines by then because he's banging down low so much playing PF, and already has plenty of nagging injuries?

All I'm saying is that it's not a given that the pick in 2016 will be a late first.

Also, first round picks/early 2nd rounders have a lot of value in the league. With 1 more first, the Knicks could have gotten rid of Amar'e, Novak, and Camby (doing what GSW), and actually sign a good player.

I'm really tired of hearing the whole "these picks have no value", because they hold plenty value. In the new CBA, picks are incredibly value, and you need draft picks to contend. Like I said before, all contending teams have their fair share of draft steals.

i'll concede that. but i think it's highly unlikely both are bad.

as far as 1 more pick and we'd be able to dump amare.., that still doesn't open that much cap space. also it would be harder to move amare/novak/camby than the guys the warriors moved due to the contract size/length. the guys the warriors moved were all expiring this year i believe, while amare still has another year at over 20 mil left on his deal and novak has several years left (camby too).

Even if they were expirings, this still goes to show how much first rounders can get done in this league. They managed to clear up over 20m in cap space for FA. Next year if the Knicks had some picks they could have done the same.

However, I guess Bargs + a 1st > 20+m in cap-space.

bargs + amare = 30 mil in cap space 2 years from now.

[JustaKnickFan]

i'll concede that. but i think it's highly unlikely both are bad.

as far as 1 more pick and we'd be able to dump amare.., that still doesn't open that much cap space. also it would be harder to move amare/novak/camby than the guys the warriors moved due to the contract size/length. the guys the warriors moved were all expiring this year i believe, while amare still has another year at over 20 mil left on his deal and novak has several years left (camby too).

Even if they were expirings, this still goes to show how much first rounders can get done in this league. They managed to clear up over 20m in cap space for FA. Next year if the Knicks had some picks they could have done the same.

However, I guess Bargs + a 1st > 20+m in cap-space.

bargs + amare = 30 mil in cap space 2 years from now.

However, Melo's getting older and the 2014 FA class >>>> 2015 FA class.

[KnicksScholar24]

Is Bargnani supposed to replace both Novak & Copeland?

[kNicksGmen]

Even if they were expirings, this still goes to show how much first rounders can get done in this league. They managed to clear up over 20m in cap space for FA. Next year if the Knicks had some picks they could have done the same.

However, I guess Bargs + a 1st > 20+m in cap-space.

bargs + amare = 30 mil in cap space 2 years from now.

However, Melo's getting older and the 2014 FA class >>>> 2015 FA class.

is this based on lebron opting out? anyways even if we were able to dump amare/novak/camby we still don't have enough to sign a max contract. especially now that we signed JR.

[JustaKnickFan]

bargs + amare = 30 mil in cap space 2 years from now.

However, Melo's getting older and the 2014 FA class >>>> 2015 FA class.

is this based on lebron opting out? anyways even if we were able to dump amare/novak/camby we still don't have enough to sign a max contract. especially now that we signed JR.

No, not really.

Cousins, Monroe, Bledsoe, Favors, Vasquez, Wall, and Paul George are RFA.

Lebron, Bosh, Wade, and (God forbid) Melo can be UFA.

Knicks could have had around 8m in cap space if they didn't go after Bargs. That would be enough to at least negotiate a S&T for any of the FA's.

[kNicksGmen]

However, Melo's getting older and the 2014 FA class >>>> 2015 FA class.

is this based on lebron opting out? anyways even if we were able to dump amare/novak/camby we still don't have enough to sign a max contract. especially now that we signed JR.

No, not really.

Cousins, Monroe, Bledsoe, Favors, Vasquez, Wall, and Paul George are RFA.

Lebron, Bosh, Wade, and (God forbid) Melo can be UFA.

Knicks could have had around 8m in cap space if they didn't go after Bargs. That would be enough to at least negotiate a S&T for any of the FA's.

the heat buddies all have options, if they opt out it will be to resign with the heat.

all the RFA are what their name implies, restricted... ie. we're not getting them.

[JustaKnickFan]

is this based on lebron opting out? anyways even if we were able to dump amare/novak/camby we still don't have enough to sign a max contract. especially now that we signed JR.

No, not really.

Cousins, Monroe, Bledsoe, Favors, Vasquez, Wall, and Paul George are RFA.

Lebron, Bosh, Wade, and (God forbid) Melo can be UFA.

Knicks could have had around 8m in cap space if they didn't go after Bargs. That would be enough to at least negotiate a S&T for any of the FA's.

the heat buddies all have options, if they opt out it will be to resign with the heat.

all the RFA are what their name implies, restricted... ie. we're not getting them.

There's a chance any of them can decline, you never know what can happen in one season.

For restricted free agents, it doesn't mean we're not getting them. All the Knicks have to do is give a FA an offer where the GM can't match. Lin was a restricted free agent, but that didn't stop him from being restricted to other teams

[kNicksGmen]

No, not really.

Cousins, Monroe, Bledsoe, Favors, Vasquez, Wall, and Paul George are RFA.

Lebron, Bosh, Wade, and (God forbid) Melo can be UFA.

Knicks could have had around 8m in cap space if they didn't go after Bargs. That would be enough to at least negotiate a S&T for any of the FA's.

the heat buddies all have options, if they opt out it will be to resign with the heat.

all the RFA are what their name implies, restricted... ie. we're not getting them.

There's a chance any of them can decline, you never know what can happen in one season.

For restricted free agents, it doesn't mean we're not getting them. All the Knicks have to do is give a FA an offer where the GM can't match. Lin was a restricted free agent, but that didn't stop him from being restricted to other teams

an offer they don't want to match, not can't match. we could have matched lin but chose not to because it was a poison pill and overall he wasn't worth it.

most of the guys you mentioned are worth rookie max deals which means the team would match it. it's not impossible but unlikely that we'd be able to get any of those guys.

[Italians in NBA]

He played with Bosh, and Jonas. Both guys showed to be proven solid rebounders when given the opportunity.

Jonas is a C, and Bargs played the 4 with him. That's not playing out of position. He still failed to rebound, so I dont know what you're trying to say.

I love Jonas but he is a rookie never playing at high level in his career, his stats in his first NBA season are: 9PPG and 6 RPG. Good stats but not so impressive. Bosh in your mind is a center? Andrea is not a center. Andrea played 6 years in the NBA without a real center in the roster and a single season (with double injuries to his elbow) with a rookie one. What are you speaking about?

Jonas's play improved as the year went on, yet Bargs rebounding didn't.

Anyway, I'm confused to what you're trying to prove. If you're trying to say Bargs rebounding is due to him never playing with a true C, I'm sorry but that's wrong.

I never said that Bargnani is a good rebounder. He is not and never will be. But he can score efficently not being the center and the focal player of the team's offensive system. Miami was the worst NBA team on rebounding. Is it so important? Andrea can create shots and points. This was the real NY problem in the playoffs.