WT- Nate unlikely to be back (WAIT! + instagram pic pg 81!)

[kingkirk]

I've been pretty bummed with some of the other teams' moves to improve themselves thus far, but it would really make my summer if we could retain Nate...

I was going to post something, but i dont want to wreck your summer, Ben.

[TylerB]

What?

Hinrich missed 30 games this season (regular season and playoffs) due to injury. Nate missed 0.

100%

You don't understand what I was saying. Nate has some incredible offensive moments but when he isn't playing at that incredible level hes hurting the team. Kirk is always playing defense.

And Nate is always providing energy. Kirk hurt the Bulls NUMEROUS times last season with his anemic offense. He shot 37% from the floor despite mostly taking wide open shots. And while Kirk is a great defender, his defense isn't always great. Exhibit A: Game 1 of the Brooklyn series. Deron Williams dominated him all game long which set the tone for the blowout. Hinrich and Robinson are two valuable players with significant flaws. Yet you're downplaying Kirk's weaknesses and hyping up Nate's. Nate at his best won us games, playoff games, against elite competition. Hinrich at his best simply doesn't match that type of impact.

If Nate is so good how come no one in the entire league wants him above the league minimum? Worst defender in the NBA, take it into consideration. Kirk can atleast run an offense reasonably when hes not shooting well.

[dice]

We're never going to be able to out talent MIA, so adding as many diverse types of players at possible

diversity for the sake of it is wrongheaded. it's only good if the players are of like caliber. i.e. you don't replace a guy with someone inferior for the sake of diversity

What's the harm in adding a player as explosive as Nate at minimum salary?

nothing. we'd all love him back at minimum salary

He's not an inferior player though. If Nate was a few inches taller, he'd get JR Smith money easily. Same type of player just in the wrong body. For as much love as Kirk gets, you'd think he would have better numbers. All you ever hear is that he provides the type of things that the numbers don't show. For comparison sake, PER 36:



1 Kirk Hinrich

FG% .377 3FG% .390 FT% .714 AST 6.4 TOV 2.0 PTS 9.4 PER 10.8 TS% .493

2 Nate Robinson

FG% .433 3FG% .405. FT% .799 AST 6.2 TOV 2.5 PTS 18.5 PER 17.4 TS% .540


Where exactly is Kirk so superior at outside D? I'm tired of hearing about intangibles.

i can ask the same question of you: where is nate superior aside from shooting?

let's also recognize that kirk's shooting last season was a career worst. against starters. that's very likely to improve when he's back where he belongs coming off the bench. like nate did for most of last season. nate was predictably not as effective when he had to start last year. particularly in the playoffs

i'd also like to point out that an important quality of a top team is consistency. and as has been mentioned already, it's much easier to retain consistency on the defensive end. now, when you're an UNDERDOG going into a game, that's when you might wanna shake things up

[Polynice4Pippen]

You don't understand what I was saying. Nate has some incredible offensive moments but when he isn't playing at that incredible level hes hurting the team. Kirk is always playing defense.

And Nate is always providing energy. Kirk hurt the Bulls NUMEROUS times last season with his anemic offense. He shot 37% from the floor despite mostly taking wide open shots. And while Kirk is a great defender, his defense isn't always great. Exhibit A: Game 1 of the Brooklyn series. Deron Williams dominated him all game long which set the tone for the blowout. Hinrich and Robinson are two valuable players with significant flaws. Yet you're downplaying Kirk's weaknesses and hyping up Nate's. Nate at his best won us games, playoff games, against elite competition. Hinrich at his best simply doesn't match that type of impact.

If Nate is so good how come no one in the entire league wants him above the league minimum? Worst defender in the NBA, take it into consideration. Kirk can atleast run an offense reasonably when hes not shooting well.

What kind of argument is that? Who cares what other teams offer Nate, we just watched him for an ENTIRE season and postseason, we know what he brings to the table. Once again, you mention Nate's negatives, Kirk's positives. Just like clockwork. I'm sensing a theme with you.

[TylerB]

And btw deron Williams didn't score a basket on Kirk after the first quarter that game. Please stop making stuff up and guessing. He did most of his damage on Nate. Everyone is desperate to have opinion thought.

[dice]

If Nate is so good how come no one in the entire league wants him above the league minimum? Worst defender in the NBA, take it into consideration. Kirk can atleast run an offense reasonably when hes not shooting well.

What kind of argument is that? Who cares what other teams offer Nate, we just watched him for an ENTIRE season and postseason, we know what he brings to the table

and so does every GM in the league. if anything, the uneducated would see the highlights that nate provides and overvalue him

[TylerB]

And Nate is always providing energy. Kirk hurt the Bulls NUMEROUS times last season with his anemic offense. He shot 37% from the floor despite mostly taking wide open shots. And while Kirk is a great defender, his defense isn't always great. Exhibit A: Game 1 of the Brooklyn series. Deron Williams dominated him all game long which set the tone for the blowout. Hinrich and Robinson are two valuable players with significant flaws. Yet you're downplaying Kirk's weaknesses and hyping up Nate's. Nate at his best won us games, playoff games, against elite competition. Hinrich at his best simply doesn't match that type of impact.

If Nate is so good how come no one in the entire league wants him above the league minimum? Worst defender in the NBA, take it into consideration. Kirk can atleast run an offense reasonably when hes not shooting well.

What kind of argument is that? Who cares what other teams offer Nate, we just watched him for an ENTIRE season and postseason, we know what he brings to the table. Once again, you mention Nate's negatives, Kirk's positives. Just like clockwork. I'm sensing a theme with you.

Is the theme being right? Yeah zero NBA teams willing to pay Nate Robinson more than the minimum means nothing, great point. Now make somethign else up about Deron Williams owning Hinrich you could use some more lies to defend your position.

[Polynice4Pippen]

If Nate is so good how come no one in the entire league wants him above the league minimum? Worst defender in the NBA, take it into consideration. Kirk can atleast run an offense reasonably when hes not shooting well.

What kind of argument is that? Who cares what other teams offer Nate, we just watched him for an ENTIRE season and postseason, we know what he brings to the table

and so does every GM in the league. if anything, the uneducated would see the highlights that nate provides and overvalue him

So wait, the barometer for a player's value and worth is how much NBA GM's are willing to pay them? Well then welcome to the Hall of Fame Rashard Lewis and Rudy Gay.

[TylerB]

What kind of argument is that? Who cares what other teams offer Nate, we just watched him for an ENTIRE season and postseason, we know what he brings to the table

and so does every GM in the league. if anything, the uneducated would see the highlights that nate provides and overvalue him

So wait, the barometer for a player's value and worth is how much NBA GM's are willing to pay them? Well then welcome to the Hall of Fame Rashard Lewis and Rudy Gay.

ok those are examples of players being overpaid. Now give us the examples of good veteran point guards in their primes not being offered anything but the veteran minimum.

[Polynice4Pippen]

If Nate is so good how come no one in the entire league wants him above the league minimum? Worst defender in the NBA, take it into consideration. Kirk can atleast run an offense reasonably when hes not shooting well.

What kind of argument is that? Who cares what other teams offer Nate, we just watched him for an ENTIRE season and postseason, we know what he brings to the table. Once again, you mention Nate's negatives, Kirk's positives. Just like clockwork. I'm sensing a theme with you.

Is the theme being right? Yeah zero NBA teams willing to pay Nate Robinson more than the minimum means nothing, great point. Now make somethign else up about Deron Williams owning Hinrich you could use some more lies to defend your position.

I didn't know it was this personal for you and Kirk. It's okay to admit that Hinrich has flaws just like Nate. It really is. It's also okay to give Nate the occasional compliment. The guy gave everything he had for us last season to get us to the second round.

[Ben]

I've been pretty bummed with some of the other teams' moves to improve themselves thus far, but it would really make my summer if we could retain Nate...

I was going to post something, but i dont want to wreck your summer, Ben.

You know something I don't know?

[Polynice4Pippen]

and so does every GM in the league. if anything, the uneducated would see the highlights that nate provides and overvalue him

So wait, the barometer for a player's value and worth is how much NBA GM's are willing to pay them? Well then welcome to the Hall of Fame Rashard Lewis and Rudy Gay.

ok those are examples of players being overpaid. Now give us the examples of good veteran point guards in their primes not being offered anything but the veteran minimum.

Again, you're evaluating Nate on market value. I'm evaluating Nate on actual production. Think about that for a second.

[TylerB]

So wait, the barometer for a player's value and worth is how much NBA GM's are willing to pay them? Well then welcome to the Hall of Fame Rashard Lewis and Rudy Gay.

ok those are examples of players being overpaid. Now give us the examples of good veteran point guards in their primes not being offered anything but the veteran minimum.

Again, you're evaluating Nate on market value. I'm evaluating Nate on actual production. Think about that for a second.

You are evaluating Nate on his offensive production only.

[Polynice4Pippen]

ok those are examples of players being overpaid. Now give us the examples of good veteran point guards in their primes not being offered anything but the veteran minimum.

Again, you're evaluating Nate on market value. I'm evaluating Nate on actual production. Think about that for a second.

You are evaluating Nate on his offensive production only.

Well that's where his value lies. Everyone takes his size, defensive limitations and out of control at times play into consideration. And even with all that, we still get a guy who willed us to victories last season in the playoffs and stepped up in the clutch, played through pain and injury. Pretty valuable guy to bring off the bench next season I'd say. I don't even understand the debate here.

[RedBulls23]

I feel like this player A vs. player B stuff has gone on for the past 10-11 years. Bulls fans always pick a side and relentlessly bash the other player. I can just picture it now... Butler vs. Snell for the next 3-4 years. CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?

[TylerB]

Again, you're evaluating Nate on market value. I'm evaluating Nate on actual production. Think about that for a second.

You are evaluating Nate on his offensive production only.

Well that's where his value lies. Everyone takes his size, defensive limitations and out of control at times play into consideration. And even with all that, we still get a guy who willed us to victories last season in the playoffs and stepped up in the clutch, played through pain and injury. Pretty valuable guy to bring off the bench next season I'd say. I don't even understand the debate here.

I don't understand the debate either except that if we re-sign Nate Robinson he is going to play less than Hinrich and will get DNP-CDs depending on matchups. Kirk won't.

And the point is you don't take his size, defensize limitations, and out of control at times play into consideration. You basically remember the 10 games where he just dominated and pretend the rest of the time didn't happen.

[RedBulls23]

I've been pretty bummed with some of the other teams' moves to improve themselves thus far, but it would really make my summer if we could retain Nate...

I was going to post something, but i dont want to wreck your summer, Ben.

You know something I don't know?

I really hope he meant something else.

[kingkirk]

You know something I don't know?

No, friend.

Just making a conscious decision to put away my realist / FO supportive post for your well being.

Don't say i don't do anything for you!

[RedBulls23]

You know something I don't know?

No, friend.

Just making a conscious decision to put away my realist / FO supportive post for your well being.

Don't say i don't do anything for you!

But it was reported that the Bulls already offered nate the vet min. He's just holding out for more. He could still be back if no team blows him away.

[Polynice4Pippen]

You are evaluating Nate on his offensive production only.

Well that's where his value lies. Everyone takes his size, defensive limitations and out of control at times play into consideration. And even with all that, we still get a guy who willed us to victories last season in the playoffs and stepped up in the clutch, played through pain and injury. Pretty valuable guy to bring off the bench next season I'd say. I don't even understand the debate here.

I don't understand the debate either except that if we re-sign Nate Robinson he is going to play less than Hinrich and will get DNP-CDs depending on matchups. Kirk won't.

And the point is you don't take his size, defensize limitations, and out of control at times play into consideration. You basically remember the 10 games where he just dominated and pretend the rest of the time didn't happen.

Here we go.

Because you're smarter than everyone on this board, right? FOH. Grow up. You have a lot of nerve to tell me what I do and don't take into consideration, especially considering how I just detailed my line of thinking for you in clear, understandable terms. And betting on Thibs' rotation, yeah, good luck with that.