BREAKING **** NEWS: Deal #done Knicks acquire Bargnani

[Thugger HBC]

Defense and rebounding wins championships.

Except the Heat are one of the worse rebounding team in the league.

Perhaps more goes into championship basketball than just that old school cliche.

The team overall might be weak but the two main components are strong in those areas.

That makes a huge difference.

[Butch718]

Not saying that he can't return to being a decent player, but let's not get it twisted. Bargs was absolutely coddled in TOR. They gave him every opportunity to shine and he just couldn't hack it.

[TheProfessor]

Bargs actually could help you guys against the Pacers, He is actually a really really good post defender, so next year maybe Bargs can stop Hibbert from ripping you guys inside out in the paint.

Hibbert did most of his damage on the boards.

He also made look Chandler look like a whipping boy in the post when he had his high scoring games, game 3 and 6 in particular. Chandler gave it up faster then Raymond feltons diet(post position that is), which led to jump hooks or fts. All I am saying is Bargs Individual Defense is highly underrated, and he can body up on bigger guys on the post ala Marc Gasols, ZBos, Hibberts, Lopez's etc. Help D is another story...

[JustaKnickFan]

Defense and rebounding wins championships.

Except the Heat are one of the worse rebounding team in the league.

Perhaps more goes into championship basketball than just that old school cliche.

They rebound when it matters.

They won game 6 because of a rebound.

[JustaKnickFan]

Bargs actually could help you guys against the Pacers, He is actually a really really good post defender, so next year maybe Bargs can stop Hibbert from ripping you guys inside out in the paint.

Hibbert did most of his damage on the boards.

He also made look Chandler look like a whipping boy in the post when he had his high scoring games, game 3 and 6 in particular. Chandler gave it up faster then Raymond feltons diet(post position that is), which led to jump hooks or fts. All I am saying is Bargs Individual Defense is highly underrated, and he can body up on bigger guys on the post ala Marc Gasols, ZBos, Hibberts, Lopez's etc. Help D is another story...

However, the Knicks switch a ton and he will be playing PF. Chandler will be matched up with them anyway.

[Thugger HBC]

I'm actually curious what people expect statistically from Bargnani on this team and his role.

Off the bench or a starter?

Cant see him putting his best averages off the bench.

Cant see him putting up his best averages alongside Melo in the starting lineup either, unless he is extremely efficient.

17-21 points on his normal %'s is not a realistic number....he didnt do it with Bosh and he wasnt a volume shooter, and he barely did it as the main guy.

[JustaKnickFan]

If you think Bargs returning to being a 17-21ppg scorer is a realistic possibility, you'd be very disappointed.

He's injury prone, and has been declining. Even in his good years, he doesn't score very efficiently, especially for a big.

So the guy who has averaged 18 PPG over his last 200 basketball games...has zero chance of averaging 17-21 PPG next season.

Gotta love Knick fans man

He averaged that much because he was being featured on Toronto, and did so inefficiently. Do you really think Bargs is getting 15 shots a game with Melo on the team?

[JustaKnickFan]

In the context of worst case scenario or Barg playing at his worst that makes it a lateral move. Although the potential of him returning to a form that made him a 20ppg player and a versatile hard to match up with scorer makes the the possibility of a much better team.

If your mindset is that he wont ever recover or regain the form he had for a few years before this past injury plauged year then that is your own opinion, but it doesnt make it fact. pointing to where others failed in similar circumstances is as useful as pointing to those that succeeded in them.

The talent/salary trade off from Barg to Novak/Camby wasa win for the Knicks even if that only constitutes a marginal or lateral move with Barg providing his last seasns poor performance. The 1st pick is the gotcha and its the toughest part of it for me to swallow.

If Barg becomes a 17ppg second scorer who helps create space for Melo and can give effort outside of just scoring he could be a piece that helps the Knicks match up better with the better teams in the league. Obviously these both are in the 'remains to be seen' category and we wont know till next spring.

Although to try and call the trade a success or a failure now on any level is jumping the gun for sure. The 1st round pick could be meaningless or a point of angst but for right now at this point or anytime for the summer offseason it cant be told which it will be even thouh I expect a summer full of definitive statements about it.

If you think Bargs returning to being a 17-21ppg scorer is a realistic possibility, you'd be very disappointed.

He's injury prone, and has been declining. Even in his good years, he doesn't score very efficiently, especially for a big.

...you're out of your mind.he's 27 and just entering his prime....he was misused.overused.toyed with,and never given the opportunity to shine, yet did everything asked of him.....his only fault is he isnt lebron and went first.

...i cant wait for the season to start so you can stfu.

His prime has past IMO.

That misuse will haunt him. He's 27 but his injuries make him 30. Injured 7fters don't age well, I thought Dwight, Bynum, and Bogut taught us that already.

I can't wait for this season to start as well. I'll give Bargs 20 games before everyone hates him.

[JustaKnickFan]

In the context of worst case scenario or Barg playing at his worst that makes it a lateral move. Although the potential of him returning to a form that made him a 20ppg player and a versatile hard to match up with scorer makes the the possibility of a much better team.

If your mindset is that he wont ever recover or regain the form he had for a few years before this past injury plauged year then that is your own opinion, but it doesnt make it fact. pointing to where others failed in similar circumstances is as useful as pointing to those that succeeded in them.

The talent/salary trade off from Barg to Novak/Camby wasa win for the Knicks even if that only constitutes a marginal or lateral move with Barg providing his last seasns poor performance. The 1st pick is the gotcha and its the toughest part of it for me to swallow.

If Barg becomes a 17ppg second scorer who helps create space for Melo and can give effort outside of just scoring he could be a piece that helps the Knicks match up better with the better teams in the league. Obviously these both are in the 'remains to be seen' category and we wont know till next spring.

Although to try and call the trade a success or a failure now on any level is jumping the gun for sure. The 1st round pick could be meaningless or a point of angst but for right now at this point or anytime for the summer offseason it cant be told which it will be even thouh I expect a summer full of definitive statements about it.

If you think Bargs returning to being a 17-21ppg scorer is a realistic possibility, you'd be very disappointed.

He's injury prone, and has been declining. Even in his good years, he doesn't score very efficiently, especially for a big.

It's a possibility and even arealistic one, just because you refuse to ascknowledge it doesn't make it less realistic of a possibilty. He had one down season in which he had an injury, that doesnt make it a declining trend outside of your opinion.

True he had a recurring injury that may or may not have been extended by how his coach played him when he returned. Although to characterize him as an injury prone player that won't ever be a healthy again is more your opinion not fact.

He undoubtedy wont have +50%fg shooting because he shoots so much from the outside compared to most big men so to try to lump him with most big men is selctive reasoning. Im on my phone so cant check but seeing his pps would clarify that more than just fg%. Last seasons extremely poor shooting year should be considered his norm anymoe than his best one would either.

So it's realistic he'll go from the 1st option to the 4th or 5th and still get his 16 shots to drop 18?

[TheProfessor]

Hibbert did most of his damage on the boards.

He also made look Chandler look like a whipping boy in the post when he had his high scoring games, game 3 and 6 in particular. Chandler gave it up faster then Raymond feltons diet(post position that is), which led to jump hooks or fts. All I am saying is Bargs Individual Defense is highly underrated, and he can body up on bigger guys on the post ala Marc Gasols, ZBos, Hibberts, Lopez's etc. Help D is another story...

However, the Knicks switch a ton and he will be playing PF. Chandler will be matched up with them anyway.

And if woody was smart, god knows if he is. He would switch bargs on to the bigger post scoring threat since he actually plays really good post d and poor team D, were as Chandlers Defense on the low block is a little suspect, and his team D is stellar.
All I am saying is after watching Bargs for 7 years is, IF theres one thing thats underrated about him and that he excels at it's Post D and thats were your all world C suspect in. So it could be really interesting to see what happens.

[JustaKnickFan]

He also made look Chandler look like a whipping boy in the post when he had his high scoring games, game 3 and 6 in particular. Chandler gave it up faster then Raymond feltons diet(post position that is), which led to jump hooks or fts. All I am saying is Bargs Individual Defense is highly underrated, and he can body up on bigger guys on the post ala Marc Gasols, ZBos, Hibberts, Lopez's etc. Help D is another story...

However, the Knicks switch a ton and he will be playing PF. Chandler will be matched up with them anyway.

And if woody was smart, god knows if he is. He would switch bargs on to the bigger post scoring threat since he actually plays really good post d and poor team D, were as Chandlers Defense on the low block is a little suspect, and his team D is stellar.
All I am saying is after watching Bargs for 7 years is, IF theres one thing thats underrated about him and that he excels at it's Post D and thats were your all world C suspect in. So it could be really interesting to see what happens.

Chandler is a great post defender as well, and can rebound MUCH better than Bargs. One poor playoff outing doesn't mean Bargs is the better guy to put on Hibbert. Putting Bargs on Hibbert is just asking the Pacers to dominate the Knicks on the glass.

[StephNYKurry]

If you think Bargs returning to being a 17-21ppg scorer is a realistic possibility, you'd be very disappointed.

He's injury prone, and has been declining. Even in his good years, he doesn't score very efficiently, especially for a big.

So the guy who has averaged 18 PPG over his last 200 basketball games...has zero chance of averaging 17-21 PPG next season.

Gotta love Knick fans man

He averaged that much because he was being featured on Toronto, and did so inefficiently. Do you really think Bargs is getting 15 shots a game with Melo on the team?

Never understood why people do this.

Because somebody else is added to your team, doesn't mean that shots are taken away from your best player. If anything, some BAD shots are taken away from your best player and a lot of shots from your lesser players are decreased.

You won't see JR with 16 shots/game next year.
You won't see Ray with 13 shots/game next year.
No shots from Kidd.
No shots from Novak.
No shots from Copeland.
Less shots for Prig.

Redistribution starts with the role players. Not the stars.

[DLTGWH]

Defense and rebounding wins championships.

Except the Heat are one of the worse rebounding team in the league.

Perhaps more goes into championship basketball than just that old school cliche.

They rebound when it matters.

They won game 6 because of a rebound.

They won game six because Spurs missed 2 free throws in the last 30 seconds...

But apparently bad rebounding teams can get big rebounds. Seems more to me that rebounding is a component of multiple variables. Obviously including fundamental practices such as boxing out and predictive trajectory (knowing where the balls headed off the rim. But also things like Pace (less shots = less rebounds), opponent shot selection (more outside shots = more offensive rebounds), LUCK (that backtap by the heat could have gone in any direction, but went directly to where Bosh was standing).

Point is... Rebounding in a way has become overrated. Its an important part of basketball, but the teams that seemingly are the most successful, arent deeming it critical and the top focus.

Second point... Bargs lack of rebounding and its adverse affect is getting slightly blown out of proportion...

[Thugger HBC]

Except the Heat are one of the worse rebounding team in the league.

Perhaps more goes into championship basketball than just that old school cliche.

They rebound when it matters.

They won game 6 because of a rebound.

They won game six because Spurs missed 2 free throws in the last 30 seconds...

But apparently bad rebounding teams can get big rebounds. Seems more to me that rebounding is a component of multiple variables. Obviously including fundamental practices such as boxing out and predictive trajectory (knowing where the balls headed off the rim. But also things like Pace (less shots = less rebounds), opponent shot selection (more outside shots = more offensive rebounds), LUCK (that backtap by the heat could have gone in any direction, but went directly to where Bosh was standing).

Point is... Rebounding in a way has become overrated. Its an important part of basketball, but the teams that seemingly are the most successful, arent deeming it critical and the top focus.

Second point... Bargs lack of rebounding and its adverse affect is getting slightly blown out of proportion...

Would it also be of note that Miami and even Boston in their playoff days of recent were viewed as weak rebounder because of their efficient scoring which allows fewer rebounding opportunities?

because both teams absolutely have good rebounders on them as we know from watching them.

And perhaps a team like the Pacers that has an incredibly inefficient offense has more rebounding chances?

Even the pre-2010 Knicks were the leaders in rebounding at one point...easy to do when you can't make a shot.

[JustaKnickFan]

Except the Heat are one of the worse rebounding team in the league.

Perhaps more goes into championship basketball than just that old school cliche.

They rebound when it matters.

They won game 6 because of a rebound.

They won game six because Spurs missed 2 free throws in the last 30 seconds...

But apparently bad rebounding teams can get big rebounds. Seems more to me that rebounding is a component of multiple variables. Obviously including fundamental practices such as boxing out and predictive trajectory (knowing where the balls headed off the rim. But also things like Pace (less shots = less rebounds), opponent shot selection (more outside shots = more offensive rebounds), LUCK (that backtap by the heat could have gone in any direction, but went directly to where Bosh was standing).

Point is... Rebounding in a way has become overrated. Its an important part of basketball, but the teams that seemingly are the most successful, arent deeming it critical and the top focus.

Second point... Bargs lack of rebounding and its adverse affect is getting slightly blown out of proportion...

They won game 6 because of a lot of things, and rebounding is one of them.

The Heat are a good rebounding team in the playoffs. That's why Lebron had 12 rebounds. That's why Wade had 10 in game 7. They crash the boards in the playoffs. Hell, even Bosh had a few double doubles, and had 7 rebounds in game 7.

Anyway, all 4 teams in the ECF and WCF are great defensive teams, and all are great rebounding teams as well (Heat when it matters). There's a reason the Pacers gave the Heat fits when they were much less talented.

Rebounding is not overrated, and is still vital to building a championship team.

[Context]

Defense and rebounding wins championships.

Except the Heat are one of the worse rebounding team in the league.

Perhaps more goes into championship basketball than just that old school cliche.

Wisdom and experience will finally teach the stubborn or arrogant people that there will and always be(for lack of a better/respectfully phrase) many ways to skin a cat.

[Knicksfan20]

In the context of worst case scenario or Barg playing at his worst that makes it a lateral move. Although the potential of him returning to a form that made him a 20ppg player and a versatile hard to match up with scorer makes the the possibility of a much better team.

If your mindset is that he wont ever recover or regain the form he had for a few years before this past injury plauged year then that is your own opinion, but it doesnt make it fact. pointing to where others failed in similar circumstances is as useful as pointing to those that succeeded in them.

The talent/salary trade off from Barg to Novak/Camby wasa win for the Knicks even if that only constitutes a marginal or lateral move with Barg providing his last seasns poor performance. The 1st pick is the gotcha and its the toughest part of it for me to swallow.

If Barg becomes a 17ppg second scorer who helps create space for Melo and can give effort outside of just scoring he could be a piece that helps the Knicks match up better with the better teams in the league. Obviously these both are in the 'remains to be seen' category and we wont know till next spring.

Although to try and call the trade a success or a failure now on any level is jumping the gun for sure. The 1st round pick could be meaningless or a point of angst but for right now at this point or anytime for the summer offseason it cant be told which it will be even thouh I expect a summer full of definitive statements about it.

If you think Bargs returning to being a 17-21ppg scorer is a realistic possibility, you'd be very disappointed.

He's injury prone, and has been declining. Even in his good years, he doesn't score very efficiently, especially for a big.

How can you say a player at 27 is declining? He is still in his prime age wise. Also his last 2 seasons he dealt with injuries, hard to say he is declining when you Factor those two things in. There is no reason to think that if he can stay healthy in a secondary scoring role, that he can turn it around.

Give a guy 20 games before you start bashing him.

[JustaKnickFan]

So the guy who has averaged 18 PPG over his last 200 basketball games...has zero chance of averaging 17-21 PPG next season.

Gotta love Knick fans man

He averaged that much because he was being featured on Toronto, and did so inefficiently. Do you really think Bargs is getting 15 shots a game with Melo on the team?

Never understood why people do this.

Because somebody else is added to your team, doesn't mean that shots are taken away from your best player. If anything, some BAD shots are taken away from your best player and a lot of shots from your lesser players are decreased.

You won't see JR with 16 shots/game next year.
You won't see Ray with 13 shots/game next year.
No shots from Kidd.
No shots from Novak.
No shots from Copeland.
Less shots for Prig.

Redistribution starts with the role players. Not the stars.

Here's the thing. 15 shots is 2nd/1st option kind of shots. The Raptors did everything they could to put him in a position to succeed, yet he didn't.

On the Knicks, he's going from a 1st/2nd option to a bench/fringe starter aka 4th/5th option.

Novak, Kidd, and Copeland barely got opportunities to score anyway.

Chances are, he's getting 9-10 shots and scoring 12 point. What a diference maker that will be. Will definitely make us better than Miami, Indy, and Chicago, and be worth the 3 picks.

[JustaKnickFan]

In the context of worst case scenario or Barg playing at his worst that makes it a lateral move. Although the potential of him returning to a form that made him a 20ppg player and a versatile hard to match up with scorer makes the the possibility of a much better team.

If your mindset is that he wont ever recover or regain the form he had for a few years before this past injury plauged year then that is your own opinion, but it doesnt make it fact. pointing to where others failed in similar circumstances is as useful as pointing to those that succeeded in them.

The talent/salary trade off from Barg to Novak/Camby wasa win for the Knicks even if that only constitutes a marginal or lateral move with Barg providing his last seasns poor performance. The 1st pick is the gotcha and its the toughest part of it for me to swallow.

If Barg becomes a 17ppg second scorer who helps create space for Melo and can give effort outside of just scoring he could be a piece that helps the Knicks match up better with the better teams in the league. Obviously these both are in the 'remains to be seen' category and we wont know till next spring.

Although to try and call the trade a success or a failure now on any level is jumping the gun for sure. The 1st round pick could be meaningless or a point of angst but for right now at this point or anytime for the summer offseason it cant be told which it will be even thouh I expect a summer full of definitive statements about it.

If you think Bargs returning to being a 17-21ppg scorer is a realistic possibility, you'd be very disappointed.

He's injury prone, and has been declining. Even in his good years, he doesn't score very efficiently, especially for a big.

How can you say a player at 27 is declining? He is still in his prime age wise. Also his last 2 seasons he dealt with injuries, hard to say he is declining when you Factor those two things in. There is no reason to think that if he can stay healthy in a secondary scoring role, that he can turn it around.

Give a guy 20 games before you start bashing him.

Because of his injury history, and how 7fters don't age well. The problem is, he's been progressively dealing with worse and worse injuries. He also had a calf injury which can really kill his career.

[BOOMbip]

I don't know exactly what the Knicks plans for Barg is but with his talent and skill set along with what they gave up for him, namely the 1st, I can't see that they won't at least try to use his ability to score the ball. Especially when you consider their playoff downfall was largely responsible due to scoring and namely a second scorer and especially a big who could pull the defense out of the paint to give the Knicks room to drive to the basket without meeting a shot blocker.

To suggest that Barg can't put up 16-17ppg as a second option getting 12-13fga would to be more unreasonable to than suggest it's possible. You don't have to go as far as to say it's probable, just possible and not an unrealistic possibility. Undoubtedly we hope he's healthy and stays that way but if he is it doesn't make any sense that the Knicks wouldn't play him good minutes and give him the opportunity to score, if they don't it's a waste of an opportunity and a traded 1st round draft pick.