2013 Orlando Summer League (July 7 - July 12)

[OrlDave]

Well, it is, in fact, just one summer league game. You've seen him play exactly... what? 25 minutes at PG? You want him at SG, so you have a biased point of view. I don't really care. Wherever he can excel is fine with me. I'm willing to see how he does at PG. Worst case it gives him the confidence to play PG in spurts during the regular season. Or to handle the ball during presses ect.

Jeez. You guys. You say you don't care, but you're one of many that keeps attacking the credibility of my opinion, rather than arguing against my opinion. I think I've had only one decent discussion with Neon who didn't agree with me giving up on Oladipo at PG. His opinion made sense and wasn't full of the garbage y'all are pushing. The rest of y'all just want to tell me that I'm thinking wrong. Then you go off saying you don't care. Of course you don't care, it's not your opinion being attacked.

I know I'm overreacting and have spent way too much time on this today. But it's just damn annoying. Watch the game, form an opinion, discuss your opinion. Why turn the talk into an argument about bias, impatience and pessimism?

I really didn't think I was attacking you. You clearly want him at SG and nothing else, which makes you biased toward him playing SG. It's more a fact than an attack. But whatever. It doesn't really matter. We'll see more of Dipo at PG this week and I'll get a better idea if he can be a good pg or needs to stick to SG.

[CPBalla2003 n da 863]

Figured I'll post these after every game since we are running Oladipo at the Point, and this is 2008 summer league stats on Westbrook, not that I'm trying to compare the two, but, it's in relation to the experiment that they try to run him at PG as well.

Westbrook Game 1: 31 mins, 7/13 FG, 1/3 3 PT 18 points, 4 reb, 1 stl, 5 ast, 1 to
Oladipo Game 1: 33 mins, 5/13 FG, 2/3 3 PT, 18 points, 7 reb, 5 stls, 7 ast, 6 tos

http://www.nba.com/media/magic/Game_1_Box_Score.pdf

This is for some food for thought really, take a look guys.

So because Vic posted simar numbers to Westbrook it means he's going to be as good as Westbrook? This isn't food for thought IMO , this is a small sample size of a meaningless game against mostly rookies and undrafted players.

Oh no, i wasn't posting it to prove a point, i was posting it for others to view, I thought it would be good to have it here since Orlando are experimenting with V.O. at Point. I'm going to do the next game like this as well just for others to see.

[pogiro]

I really didn't think I was attacking you. You clearly want him at SG and nothing else, which makes you biased toward him playing SG. It's more a fact than an attack. But whatever. It doesn't really matter. We'll see more of Dipo at PG this week and I'll get a better idea if he can be a good pg or needs to stick to SG.

I'm done after this one but just so it's clear I got one guy saying my reasoning was "****" and nothing else in that post, I got another guy saying that my opinion is unreasonable even though it turned out he had a similar opinion, and then you have been talking about "lunacy" and "bias" behind my opinion. It's ridiculous that I can't say that Victor Oladipo is not our answer at PG without getting that sort of garbage responses. Judging by the responses, I would think that I'm calling him a bust. Ridiculous.

(Edit: and another guy calling my opinion "stupid and baseless"...)

Now, all that aside, IMO, I think that those of you who watched Oladipo today and think he can develop into our future PG, underestimate what it takes to be a good starting NBA PG. Like I said, he may be competent enough to play backup minutes at PG, but he won't be our answer at PG. Flame on.

[TDJacksonville]

VO is gonna be the Best

Spoiler:

PG

in the NBA Said No Person ever

[rcklsscognition]

Good work getting your point across pogiro. I get what you're saying.

[Bensational]

Do whatever you want man. Make up your mind after one SL game... it's your prerogative. On the bright side, since your opinions will never change, no sense reposting them.

Oh I do whatever I want. But there's a lot of people on this board who really don't think before arguing and just echo the "it's only been one SL game" and "it's too early to know anything" mantra.

All I said was that I've seen enough of Oladipo at PG. He's not our answer there. We should put him back at SG where he can excel and develop more effectively. Basically, do you want a possibly good PG, or an elite SG? I want the elite SG.

I think that is a reasonable opinion "after one SL game" (forgetting the fact he played SG in college, projected as a SG in the NBA, and did not really have much in his pre-draft scouting reports that hint that he can be a good PG).

PG or SG, it doesn't really matter to me. if we're really gonna test how elite the guy can be, we're gonna need to put the ball in his hands and let him develop his handles and playmaking against NBA players.

[rcklsscognition]

Before I'm tainted with tomorrow's performances, I wanted to write down my thoughts on some of the Orlando squad on day 1:

Oladipo:

Nailed a couple of ice breakers out of the gate and a nice layup but then slowed down as he began looking more for teammates. Pros: Despite looking lost out there managed to get 7 assists. I only remember 2 of them though, the pass to KOQ and the pass to Moe for the dunk. Not sure how (if) the others actually happened . He does have good form on his 3 pointer. Defense was very impressive, including the steal in the backcourt and a couple of nice reach ins. Getting 5 steals in any type of game with grown men is not easy. Sign of playing at a higher intensity than others based of my laziness and getting pickpocketed by just about anyone with energy. Above average on the boards, again, good sign of activity.

Cons:

Seemed uncomfortable finishing at the rim. No dunks, couple of blocked shots, couple misses. Lacks great court vision, telegraphs passes, and picks up his dribble far too often and early. Seems to have one move to get from 3 point line in, crossover around a pick and thread the needle. Same play he ran all day in college. His dribbling is different. He pounds the rock into the floor like he's doing a dribbling drill or something. Seems forced and is too high and loose. Craftier guards will pick him clean. Was getting blown by on the 3-point line guarding opposing 1s and needs to improve moving around and through picks.

Harkless:
You hear this a lot from me, I apologize, but what you see tonight, is probably the comfort zone for Harkless in year 2, and perhaps his career. Pros: About 15 points per game, using his length and positioning under the rim to get 6-8 boards a night, and picking up a key block or two. Got a few easy looks with cuts, shows good control around the rim. Improved ability to absorb contact and get AND-1s.

Cons: Plays what looks like is solid D, yet somehow the other player puts up points and shoots a good percentage. Not sure how else to explain that, but it happened all last year and I saw the same thing today. Inconsistent shooting, lack of any types of moves or comfort in the post. Can't really do anything once he gets the ball if you cut off the baseline.


KOQ:
Pros: Vocal leader, brings energy. Projects extremely well statistically in PER36. This guy would be regarded around the league as special if he was 7 feet tall. His jumper can be silky.

Cons: Still fouls too much. Needs to watch tape of guys going straight up and needs to take less swats for steal attempts.

Osby:

Had a feeling this guy was going to come in a wow some people. He's got legit 3/4 size and can move. That spin move is lethal. Needs to hit the mid-range jumper consistently to keep teams honest. Cons: With his size and strength, needs to get more rebounds.

Lamb:

OK outing, 3-3 from downtown. Was tentative and didn't initiate the offense very well. Needs to be at 10 points a game and 4 dimes to make it worthwhile. Should try and attack the rim and open up teammates for easy assists.

Ok, I'm tired, that was harder than I imagined.

[Neon1]

Before I'm tainted with tomorrow's performances, I wanted to write down my thoughts on some of the Orlando squad on day 1:

Oladipo:

Nailed a couple of ice breakers out of the gate and a nice layup but then slowed down as he began looking more for teammates. Pros: Despite looking lost out there managed to get 7 assists. I only remember 2 of them though, the pass to KOQ and the pass to Moe for the dunk. Not sure how (if) the others actually happened . He does have good form on his 3 pointer. Defense was very impressive, including the steal in the backcourt and a couple of nice reach ins. Getting 5 steals in any type of game with grown men is not easy. Sign of playing at a higher intensity than others based of my laziness and getting pickpocketed by just about anyone with energy. Above average on the boards, again, good sign of activity.

Cons:

Seemed uncomfortable finishing at the rim. No dunks, couple of blocked shots, couple misses. Lacks great court vision, telegraphs passes, and picks up his dribble far too often and early. Seems to have one move to get from 3 point line in, crossover around a pick and thread the needle. Same play he ran all day in college. His dribbling is different. He pounds the rock into the floor like he's doing a dribbling drill or something. Seems forced and is too high and loose. Craftier guards will pick him clean. Was getting blown by on the 3-point line guarding opposing 1s and needs to improve moving around and through picks.

Harkless:
You hear this a lot from me, I apologize, but what you see tonight, is probably the comfort zone for Harkless in year 2, and perhaps his career. Pros: About 15 points per game, using his length and positioning under the rim to get 6-8 boards a night, and picking up a key block or two. Got a few easy looks with cuts, shows good control around the rim. Improved ability to absorb contact and get AND-1s.

Cons: Plays what looks like is solid D, yet somehow the other player puts up points and shoots a good percentage. Not sure how else to explain that, but it happened all last year and I saw the same thing today. Inconsistent shooting, lack of any types of moves or comfort in the post. Can't really do anything once he gets the ball if you cut off the baseline.


KOQ:
Pros: Vocal leader, brings energy. Projects extremely well statistically in PER36. This guy would be regarded around the league as special if he was 7 feet tall. His jumper can be silky.

Cons: Still fouls too much. Needs to watch tape of guys going straight up and needs to take less swats for steal attempts.

Osby:

Had a feeling this guy was going to come in a wow some people. He's got legit 3/4 size and can move. That spin move is lethal. Needs to hit the mid-range jumper consistently to keep teams honest. Cons: With his size and strength, needs to get more rebounds.

Lamb:

OK outing, 3-3 from downtown. Was tentative and didn't initiate the offense very well. Needs to be at 10 points a game and 4 dimes to make it worthwhile. Should try and attack the rim and open up teammates for easy assists.

Ok, I'm tired, that was harder than I imagined.

I can just co-sign this almost 100% to the tee on what I would have said.

[MagicFan32]

The magic are trying to develop the weaker parts in VO's game, it's simple as that. some of his turnovers were from a lack of familiarity and communication. He drew alot of fouls, which is a great sign for the future of his offensive game, and has a quick first step. The athleticism is clearly there, and he is going to generate plenty of transition offense w/his D, i don't care if turns the ball over 7 times every game in SL, this is about working on skill development.

Anyways Osby was the surprise of the day....i love that we're starting to get some tough guys in here with him and KOQ. Osby is definitely more athletic than i thought, i love where our team is going. the kids are alright and are going to keep us entertained thru the going pains.

Harkless and OVP are going to be NASTY on defense for years to come

[nicnac215]

Osby was very impressive and I hope he can keep up this type of production. I love AN's silky footwork but he is too slow and horrible on defense. I think the Magic should try and trade him to OKC for their 1st round pick, since the thunder could use post scoring and their draft pick is not very valuable.

[cedric76]

I like Victor s attitude and happy with the pick but I don't think he ll be a star.

A good solid player yes, tony Allen type

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[CourtsideTV]

I like Victor s attitude and happy with the pick but I don't think he ll be a star.

A good solid player yes, tony Allen type

Sent from my HTC One using RealGM Forums mobile app

based on one game in summer league ...

[Blue_and_Whte]

Figured I'll post these after every game since we are running Oladipo at the Point, and this is 2008 summer league stats on Westbrook, not that I'm trying to compare the two, but, it's in relation to the experiment that they try to run him at PG as well.

Westbrook Game 1: 31 mins, 7/13 FG, 1/3 3 PT 18 points, 4 reb, 1 stl, 5 ast, 1 to
Oladipo Game 1: 33 mins, 5/13 FG, 2/3 3 PT, 18 points, 7 reb, 5 stls, 7 ast, 6 tos

http://www.nba.com/media/magic/Game_1_Box_Score.pdf

This is for some food for thought really, take a look guys.

So because Vic posted simar numbers to Westbrook it means he's going to be as good as Westbrook? This isn't food for thought IMO , this is a small sample size of a meaningless game against mostly rookies and undrafted players.

Oh no, i wasn't posting it to prove a point, i was posting it for others to view, I thought it would be good to have it here since Orlando are experimenting with V.O. at Point. I'm going to do the next game like this as well just for others to see.

Gotcha point taken (no pun)

[pogiro]

I think the issue is that you think playing Dipo at PG will stunt his growth at SG. That is definitely not the case. Lebron played PG for Cavs a good amount, and he still turned into an elite SF. Durant played SG his 1st season and now he's an elite SF. George played SG his first 2 seasons, and this season he is an allstar SF. Wade played point for Miami a lot initially, he still turned into an elite SG.

Do you see what I'm trying to say? It's fine to say Dipo isn't the answer at PG, I might even agree with you, but saying that it'll negatively affect his game is stupid and baseless. ESPECIALLY when it's the summer league, c'mon bro! He's developing his handle right now, and that will only help his game in the future.

Wow. I was following until the "stupid and baseless" comment. I'm just going to ignore that because I'm tired of arguing against that ****.

I still see Dipo as a project. He does things well, and I think he does enough things well enough that he can be an elite SG one day. I want him to be playing off the ball, making cuts, nailing the spot up 3s. I want him to focus on his offensive repertoire, focus on scoring, and go all-in on that role and see how far he can develop there rather than focusing on running an offense. I'm pretty sure I never said it's going to negatively affect his game to put him at PG, I don't know, maybe I worded something like that but I don't think I did. But I just think it would be more effective developing him in a role that he'll actually play.

All those examples you had...
LeBron... that's just a bad example. LeBron is a generational talent who has an all around game that is on an exceptional level even when compared to the NBA legends. LeBron would probably be an elite anything, PG, SG, SF, PF, C, if he was kept there.
Durant and George... is there really that much difference between SG and SF?
Wade... I hope Oladipo is a Wade. But just because Wade could handle it, doesn't mean Oladipo can handle it.

You list these examples but they are the exceptions. The NBA is littered with players that don't make it to their full potential because they weren't developed right. I already said this is just SL so in the long-run we're not talking about making or breaking a career. All I said was I've seen enough to know he's not our PG. I can understand keeping him at PG for the time being. I wouldn't do it if I was Henny/Jacque/Borrego. IMO you shouldn't spend too much time experimenting. You need to put the rookie in the best situation where he can use his talents best. You don't try to make him into a player he's not and trying to make him into a player that can run the offense, which is some people's hopes and expectations here, would be a mistake.

[CourtsideTV]

I think they just want him to develop the ability to bring the ball up court and be that 2ndary guard who can handle ball duties harden-lite ... if he runs pg full time, it would be perfect for tank-city to bring on wiggins/jabari/etc.

[pogiro]

I think they just want him to develop the ability to bring the ball up court and be that 2ndary guard who can handle ball duties harden-lite ... if he runs pg full time, it would be perfect for tank-city to bring on wiggins/jabari/etc.

Yea. I don't know what they are planning, but that's what I'd guess too. But not knowing that much about Oladipo except for scouting reports and videos, and highlight videos, I see people saying he could do what Russell Westbrook did, I'm just saying, "nope."

But personally, I want him to focus on scoring and not facilitating.

[pogiro]

A better example is Dwight. He wanted to be PF when he was drafted. He wanted to be more like KG. He wanted to be facing the basket more and have his game developed down that pathway. I don't remember if they actually experimented with him there. But even with the Magic sticking him at C, he still doesn't have an offense that people acknowledge (I give more respect to his hook than most). Would SL make the difference? Probably not. But developing young players' games is not an exact science. You teach him, put him in the best position you can, and hope for the best.

[CourtsideTV]

I think they just want him to develop the ability to bring the ball up court and be that 2ndary guard who can handle ball duties harden-lite ... if he runs pg full time, it would be perfect for tank-city to bring on wiggins/jabari/etc.

Yea. I don't know what they are planning, but that's what I'd guess too. But not knowing that much about Oladipo except for scouting reports and videos, and highlight videos, I see people saying he could do what Russell Westbrook did, I'm just saying, "nope."

But personally, I want him to focus on scoring and not facilitating.

i know its just 1 game but i did NOT see russel westbrook in him at all. he has no court vision/playmaking ability. you can't just learn that in 1 season..it takes many years to develop that skill and even after that, it won't be that great. the best case scenario i see from him is being like t-mac...bring the ball up...cut to the rim and dish out...or be like dwade in the sense of run and gun and dish for easy passes bc of the fast breaks they will get from his quickness/steals.. etc.

[Blue_and_Whte]

I think they just want him to develop the ability to bring the ball up court and be that 2ndary guard who can handle ball duties harden-lite ... if he runs pg full time, it would be perfect for tank-city to bring on wiggins/jabari/etc.

Yea. I don't know what they are planning, but that's what I'd guess too. But not knowing that much about Oladipo except for scouting reports and videos, and highlight videos, I see people saying he could do what Russell Westbrook did, I'm just saying, "nope."

But personally, I want him to focus on scoring and not facilitating.

i know its just 1 game but i did NOT see russel westbrook in him at all. he has no court vision/playmaking ability. you can't just learn that in 1 season..it takes many years to develop that skill and even after that, it won't be that great. the best case scenario i see from him is being like t-mac...bring the ball up...cut to the rim and dish out...or be like dwade in the sense of run and gun and dish for easy passes bc of the fast breaks they will get from his quickness/steals.. etc.

Like I said on page 51, Vic obviously doesn't have the feel for being a full time pg in the NBA but I thought he did a good job improvising in that role yesterday. I still think best case scenerio he'll be a secondary ball handler and not a full time pg. I think he's a willing passer but not so much a playmaker.

[JBSouthpaw]

Would someone be so kind to do a game thread for each game? it was a bit hard finding the begining of Sunday's game.