Official Off-Season Trade/Rumor Thread

[GreenHat]

We've faced five elimination games in our two title runs which is a lot for a repeat champion. Of course we went 5-0 in those last 5 games but that includes a much larger element of luck than a team with this much talent should require. Anyone can win one game which is why you want to avoid elimination games. Facing five in only two seasons is not a blueprint that should be followed in the future.

Of course Leonard split those free throws but our season shouldn't be relying on something we have no control over.

I'm definitely not advocating major changes in general or trading Bosh for Asik specifically but we have been very fortunate in these last two years in elimination games. We shouldn't be facing 2-3 per year and if we continue to it will end up biting us in the ass.

NBA Champions: "Facing Elimination"

• Bird's Celtics went 7-games against the Sixers in the 1980-81 ECF and in the Semis against the Knicks in 1983-84.

• Riley, Magic, and Kareem's Showtime squad faced elimination in 3 consecutive grueling 7-game series versus the Jazz, Mavericks, and Pistons when they repeated in 1987-88.

• The Bad Boys brawled for 7-games against the Bulls in the ECF when they repeated in 1989-90.

• Jordan and the Bulls battled for 7-games in their Semis against the Knicks in 1991-92.

• Hakeem's Rockets survived two 7-game series in 1993-94: Once against Barkley's Suns in the Semis, followed by Ewing's Knicks in the Finals. They then proceed to go 7-games in the Semis once again against Phoenix in 1994-95.

• Jordan and the Bulls scrapped for 7-games against the Pacers in the 1997-98 ECF.

• Phil, Shaq, and Kobe were taken to the brink in Game 7 of the WCF against the Blazers in 1999-00.

• Once again Shaq and Kobe fought off elimination, this time in 7-games against the Kings in the 2001-02 WCF.

• Pistons got pushed to 7-games by Kidd and the Nets in the 2003-04 Semis.

• It took 7-games for Popovich and Duncan to put away those same Pistons when they squared off in the 2004-05 Finals.

• Garnett, Pierce, and Allen flirted with elimination in Game 7's against the Hawks in the First Round and Semis versus the Cavs in 2007-08.

• Phil, Kobe, and Pau needed a 7th game to beat the Rockets in the Semis of 2008-09.

• The next year those same Lakers escaped in Game 7 to overcome the Celtics in the 2009-10 Finals.

• Your Miami Heat take out the Celtics in Game 7 of 2011-12 ECF.

• Which brings us to 2012-13, and present day, as the Heat faced elimination again: Once versus the Pacers in the ECF, followed by the Spurs in the Finals.

What history shows is champions facing elimination games isn't rare. The rarity is not having to deal with that type of adversity on the road to a title. I'd prefer to see them breeze through the playoffs as well, but tough postseason runs happen. Particularly over the last 15 years.

I said 5 games in 2 years. I wasn't saying facing one elimination game is rare. I was literally said:

We've faced five elimination games in our two title runs which is a lot for a repeat champion.

If we faced one elimination game it wouldn't be a big deal. If you continue facing 2-3 a year, one year the ball is going to bounce against you.

That isn't even bringing up how much better we are than these teams. We aren't facing elimination games against great teams. That Boston team last year was old and not good. This Indiana team won 49 games this year with an SRS of 3.

[Mars]

...That isn't even bringing up how much better we are than these teams. We aren't facing elimination games against great teams. That Boston team last year was old and not good. This Indiana team won 49 games this year with an SRS of 3.

Are the Heat actually much better than those teams when Bosh misses the first four and a half games against Boston in the ECF and Wade's battling a bum knee that entire postseason run that needed to be drained?

Or this postseason with Wade hobbled on two bad knees against both the Pacers and Spurs? Was that really the same team we saw post All-Star break that won 27 straight games? Not an excuse, just an honest question.

[GreenHat]

We've faced five elimination games in our two title runs which is a lot for a repeat champion. Of course we went 5-0 in those last 5 games but that includes a much larger element of luck than a team with this much talent should require. Anyone can win one game which is why you want to avoid elimination games. Facing five in only two seasons is not a blueprint that should be followed in the future.

Of course Leonard split those free throws but our season shouldn't be relying on something we have no control over.

I'm definitely not advocating major changes in general or trading Bosh for Asik specifically but we have been very fortunate in these last two years in elimination games. We shouldn't be facing 2-3 per year and if we continue to it will end up biting us in the ass.

That's true as far as it goes, but at the same time, we've played the last two postseasons with one of the big 3 significantly limited and/or missing time with injury and still come out with 2 titles. 2 elimination games against Boston...in a series where Bosh only played in 2.5 games. 2 elimination games against SA and 1 against Ind...in a playoff when Wade severely limited by knee injuries.

It's true that injuries happen and we might wonder if Wade in particular will be ever be healthy through a full playoff run again. At the same time, it's hard to imagine the Bulls 3-peating with Scottie being as limited as Wade was, or the Lakers winning back-to-backs with Worthy missing as much time as Bosh did in the 12 postseason.

If you don't change a single thing about the team but get both of those guys playing at normal playoff level, you might not see any elimination games. It's not hard to imagine the Indy series, e.g., being a "close" 5-game series (ala Bulls in 11), rather than a 7-gamer, with Wade playing like he did in Jan/Feb/Mar. It's not hard to imagine Miami beating Boston in 6 in '12 if Bosh is there for the entire series. So, I mean, yeah, you don't want to constantly have your back against the wall in the playoffs, and yeah, you always want to be improving, but you also need some perspective.

Its also not hard to imagine the Spurs beating us in a relatively easy series if Parker doesn't get hurt. Or Indiana beating us if Granger was healthy so that they would have more than 5 playable players (remember we won game 1 in overtime). Those guys are part of the "big 3" of their teams. Heck even the Mavs were missing their #2 or 3 offensive option while they were dismantling us (obviously they had guys with defensive value who were better than Caron)

Additionally I think that even with the injuries we were the much better team in all four situations, including their injuries which I'm sure their fans point to as the reason why they didn't beat us (just like all fans do).

As long as Lebron is healthy and at least one of Wade/Bosh is good to go I think we still have the best team in the league which shows just how much more talent we have than everyone else.

[GreenHat]

...That isn't even bringing up how much better we are than these teams. We aren't facing elimination games against great teams. That Boston team last year was old and not good. This Indiana team won 49 games this year with an SRS of 3.

Are the Heat actually much better than those teams when Bosh misses the first four and a half games against Boston in the ECF and Wade's battling a bum knee that entire postseason run that needed to be drained?

Or this postseason with Wade hobbled on two bad knees against both the Pacers and Spurs? Was that really the same team we saw post All-Star break that won 27 straight games? Not an excuse, just an honest question.

Yes they are. Even if Wade sits the series or Bosh missed the whole series last year.

[Mars]

Yes they are. Even if Wade sits the series or Bosh missed the whole series last year.

But they actually weren't or we wouldn't be having this discussion.

And of the 7 different squads that repeated as champions the last 26 years (Lakers, Pistons, Bulls, Rockets, Lakers, Lakers, Heat) here are the ones who faced multiple elimination games...

• Rockets faced 6 elimination games during the 1993-94 & 1994-95 title runs (3 each playoff run).

• Heat faced 5 elimination games during the 2011-12 & 2012-13 title runs.

• Lakers faced 4 elimination games against the Jazz (1), Mavericks (1), and Pistons (2) during their 1987-88 title run.

• Lakers faced 2 elimination games, both against the Kings, during their 2001-02 title run.

[weouthere]

Why does is matter how many elimination games we play? We won. So what?

Pacers are GREAT at our biggest weakness

And we have no interior defender so we overhelp in the paint and three point shooters get off against us. What's new?

We need good Bigs and that's that. We aren't even good at the point guard position in my opinion. So that's not that good and two main positions and win two in a row. Yall gotta chill

[weouthere]

No good center, wade is usually always injured in the playoffs, bosh ineffective. We still manage.

We need to get better moving forward we know that but the discussing how many elimination games we face is pointless

[LikeABosh]

What's amazing about the last 2 series we played, Indy and SAS pretty much exposed every possible weakness we had. We still won. ****, I don't know if that's more impressive or less impressive, but I'm glad we can pull wins out of our asses at any time

[homecourtloss]

Why does is matter how many elimination games we play? We won. So what?

Pacers are GREAT at our biggest weakness

And we have no interior defender so we overhelp in the paint and three point shooters get off against us. What's new?

We need good Bigs and that's that. We aren't even good at the point guard position in my opinion. So that's not that good and two main positions and win two in a row. Yall gotta chill

It matters because it shows us that there are certain vulnerabilities that this team possesses which will probably, sooner than later, come back to haunt us and could have already haunted us if not for great clutch play and some fortune.

Historically and statistically speaking, winning 5 straight elimination games is difficult to do, even if 4 of the 5 are at home. As stated in this thread, there is little doubt in most people's minds that we were better than all the teams that drove us to the brink of elimination and therefore it seemed fitting that we won those elimination games and even though winning five in a row is statistically unusual, it didn't seem that abnormal because we WERE better. Defensive rebounding and rim protection were lacking and these things almost did in an otherwise dominant team. When rebounding was even and the opposition wasn't getting easy putbacks, we seemed almost invincible. In short, a team otherwise this good shouldn't face so many elimination games, games in which a few bounces here or there could ruin the entire season.

As stated above, there are mitigating circumstances, i.e., Bosh being hurt last year and Wade playing hurt this year, etc., but still: we can be better. Yes, it doesn't matter now that we played all those elimination games because it's now history -- we already won. Posters are now talking about the future and how we can hedge against little flukes and bad ball bounces that could possibly put us at the brink of elimination again, not to mention the structural issues that made us a poor defensive rebounding team.

You citing the Pacers and their strengths vis-a-vis our weaknesses actually reinforces the point: eliminate or reduce certain vulnerabilities (defensive rebounding/rim protection) and we greatly hedge against future weaknesses that could lead to losses which could lead us to the brink of elimination again. We' e been there five times and it's already too many and we want to avoid it in the future. The Pacers don't just match up well with us in a vacuum; there are roster moves and structural decisions that have lead to this. We want to ameliorate for those weaknesses as much as we can. Yes, we were relatively weak at two positions and still won, but we were a few bounces here and there from not having won any at all. This is what we want to try and prevent going further.

[homecourtloss]

As long as Lebron is healthy and at least one of Wade/Bosh is good to go I think we still have the best team in the league which shows just how much more talent we have than everyone else.

Yes, and frankly, it goes to show how great James is because it's not possible to replace James's name with anyone else's in your statement above and still make it ring true.

[HIF]

Zaza got overpaid by a clueless organization. There aren't many of those left so I doubt someone offers Birdman that much

EVERY team overpays for a big man. You are deluding yourself if you think any below average big man can't get the equivalent of the mmle.

We are Lucky that we have Joel on what has been a low salary contract as back up.

We have to hope that a big man is willing to forego money for winning. That's likely to be a player who has already made money.

Bird has the money from the Denver contract. I would be shocked and ashamed for him if he didn't re-sign for us. But if someone wants to offer him 27m over 3 years I'd understand that.

We should ONLY offer him a 2 year min contract with a player option again next season if he wants it.

[HIF]

I was literally said:

you're getting owned by mars in this thread, despite your return to verbal diarrhea . and then you wrote the above.

I'm enjoying the meltdown.

[HEATVols865]

Did anyone listen to Hochman and Zaslow today?
I stream them from Atlanta and in the Honked Off section they said they were honked off about the Birdman situation and that they were told it was done and now they have no idea what's up.

What's going on?



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[HIF]

Can't believe that it isn't done but since it can't be official until the 10th they are waiting to say.

[HIF]

Wolves have been forced to waive Stiemsma.

27yo 6'11". If we fail on all the other centers mentioned he'd be Worth a spot.

He's a rim protector who can rebound and score a little.

[WD]

overlooked the summer thread

[wadeallday1]

Wolves have been forced to waive Stiemsma.

27yo 6'11". If we fail on all the other centers mentioned he'd be Worth a spot.

He's a rim protector who can rebound and score a little.

He'd only be worth the minimum as well, right?

[mademan]

Steimsmas actually a good player. Good defender, good rebounder and shotblocker. He's got some range and good mobility. I'm surprised he got waived, he's a serviceable center, which is extremely rare in this league.

[Grumpy Heat Fan]

Steimsmas actually a good player. Good defender, good rebounder and shotblocker. He's got some range and good mobility. I'm surprised he got waived, he's a serviceable center, which is extremely rare in this league.

If this is true, then Riley should go after him right now.

and don't let him simmer and take too long to decide, because then his agent will simply leak "Miami Heat interested in Stiemsma" and then Dallas, San Antonio, Boston, NY and every other damn team will treat Stiemsma like he's made of Gold.


We gotta operate fast and sign him. Go for the guy under the radar, and sell him on the chance to start for us, on a 2 year deal, with the 2nd year a player option.

[Duane]

WTF...u guys want that piece of crap Steamer? U know that's his nickname right? As in big, steaming pile of crap. We destroyed that guy in 2012. I think he had more fouls than minutes. He is not better than Jarvis or Joel. Dude is an uberscrub.