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Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIX Offseason Edition)

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Re: Official Speculation Thread Part ? (Will update tomorrow 

Post#1081 » by JrDrex » Tue Jul 9, 2013 2:43 pm

Blue_and_Whte wrote:
magicsanta wrote:Am I the only one who believes that player developement is fundamentally different than tanking?

Player Developement is the combination of measures inteded to improve the players, with the ultimate goal of assembling a team that's capable of winning games, by improving its members individually. It's not the only thing it takes to build a contender, but it's prioritary for young crappy teams, at early stages of a rebuilding process, mainly because:

a) They don't have all the pieces yet and will likely deal some of their current players, hence optimizing the performace of the team as a whole is not prioritary over developing the players, especially those planned to be in the team's future;

b) who normally need to work on certain aspects of their games and have relatively big room for improvement because of their youth and inexperience, which emphasizes the importance and pertinence of player development.

However, if you're really good at player development, chances are your team will win more games, even if it's not its most direct goal -it is its ultimate goal-, if developing players didn't help teams win, it wouldn't make sense whatsoever.

Prioritizing PD over maximizing wins is one thing, that I'm all for at this stage, tanking (losing on purpose) is totally different and I'm against it.

No. I said before the start of last season, and I quote "It's not tanking, it's developing young players. The result of that is losing alot of games." The coaches aren't telling the players to losing games on purpose.


Please pass the Blue & White Kool-Aid.

Not to say I dont agree, but we know we're drinking what the Magic want us too.

Another one for me!
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Re: Official Speculation Thread Part ? (Will update tomorrow 

Post#1082 » by LBPTarHeel27 » Tue Jul 9, 2013 2:49 pm

backasswards wrote:I see Dipo as a Gilbert Arenas type.


The only comparison I can draw is that they look similar handling the ball in terms of their posture, high dribble, and how they come off of picks.

Outside of that...they are two completely different players. Arenas was a lethal scoring threat...Oladipo still has a long way to go.

This is pretty amusing though...look at the scouting report I found on the 2001 draft that Arenas was in...

Size will be in great abundance in this year's draft, which will include a record number of players attempting to make the jump from high school to the pros. Unfortunately for the Washington Wizards, who hold the top overall selection, there is no clear-cut number one pick. Even worse, none of the top overall talents available are over 20 years old. Due to the impact that players such as Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant and Tracy McGrady have had on the NBA in recent years after bypassing college ball for the NBA, teams will be under extreme pressure to make a decision based more on a prospect's potential than on his production. In the old days, teams weighed both production and potential in order to make their decisions, but no GM will want to end up looking as foolish as the Golden State Warriors did in 1996 when they drafted productive NC State center Todd Fuller over the young and unproven Kobe Bryant. Therefore, expect highly productive collegians such as Shane Battier and Jamal Tinsley to slide down the draft rankings.


Here is how we rate the top prospects available in this year's draft:

1. Kwame Brown
2. Eddy Curry
3. Rodney White
4. Eddie Griffin
5. Tyson Chandler
6. Richard Jefferson
7. Jason Richardson
8. Joe Johnson

9. Shane Battier
10. DeSagana Diop
11. Pau Gasol
12. Loren Woods
13. Zach Randolph
14. Brendan Haywood
15. Michael Bradley
16. Gilbert Arenas
17. Steven Hunter
18. Joseph Forte
19. Tony Parker
20. Jamaal Tinsley
21. Kedrick Brown
22. Vladimir Radmanovic
23. Gerald Wallace
24. Omar Cook
25. Ousmane Cisse
26. Jason Collins
27. Troy Murphy
28. Terence Morris
29. Brian Scalabrine

In a draft where there was no clear cut #1 pick, look at all of the impact players that ended up being a part of it, I bolded them. It ended up being an insanely deep draft.

As for Arenas...

Positives: As the go-to-guy on a loaded Arizona squad last season, Arenas was one of the most explosive scorers in college basketball. A long-armed athlete with great body control, speed and quickness, Arenas excels as a finisher both off the drive and in transition. His perimeter shooting has improved to the point where he must now be respected as a threat. Arenas handles the ball and passes well enough to spend some time at the point and can defend at both backcourt spots.
Negatives: Some scouts are concerned about whether Arenas possesses the size to play off guard in the NBA, but his wingspan allows him to play much taller than his listed height.
Prognosis: Arenas is vastly underrated, despite having starred for one of the most high profile college basketball programs in the nation. He has the athleticism and explosiveness to develop into a player similar to Cuttino Mobley. Do not be surprised if Arenas is suddenly a 15-16 ppg scorer.


Arenas' report does sound similar to Oladipo's, but Arenas was a couple years ahead of the curve. Oladipo could end up being a similar type player if he continues to work on his shot and ability to finish in the lane...not just get there.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread Part ? (Will update tomorrow 

Post#1083 » by LBPTarHeel27 » Tue Jul 9, 2013 2:51 pm

JrDrex wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:
magicsanta wrote:Am I the only one who believes that player developement is fundamentally different than tanking?

Player Developement is the combination of measures inteded to improve the players, with the ultimate goal of assembling a team that's capable of winning games, by improving its members individually. It's not the only thing it takes to build a contender, but it's prioritary for young crappy teams, at early stages of a rebuilding process, mainly because:

a) They don't have all the pieces yet and will likely deal some of their current players, hence optimizing the performace of the team as a whole is not prioritary over developing the players, especially those planned to be in the team's future;

b) who normally need to work on certain aspects of their games and have relatively big room for improvement because of their youth and inexperience, which emphasizes the importance and pertinence of player development.

However, if you're really good at player development, chances are your team will win more games, even if it's not its most direct goal -it is its ultimate goal-, if developing players didn't help teams win, it wouldn't make sense whatsoever.

Prioritizing PD over maximizing wins is one thing, that I'm all for at this stage, tanking (losing on purpose) is totally different and I'm against it.

No. I said before the start of last season, and I quote "It's not tanking, it's developing young players. The result of that is losing alot of games." The coaches aren't telling the players to losing games on purpose.


Please pass the Blue & White Kool-Aid.

Not to say I dont agree, but we know we're drinking what the Magic want us too.

Another one for me!


They are both 100% right. There is a HUGE difference between just not being good enough to win and tanking. J-Vaughn is not going to pull Tobias Harris with 2 seconds left on the clock when we are down 1 in the 4th. That is obviously an extreme example...but that is tanking. Making decisions that hinder your team's growth. We will not be doing that. Vaughn will be doing everything he can to put our guys in the best possible position to succeed. AKA, his job.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread Part ? (Will update tomorrow 

Post#1084 » by MagicRays » Tue Jul 9, 2013 2:53 pm

Skin wrote:
Noonskadoodle wrote:Image

Boy oh boy is Vuc gonna get paid when his time comes, & he stays on course with how he is projecting.

Glad you already have focus on it. It's the truth that many overlook. They see how much cap space we have in the Summer of 2014 and think "What Max FA can we go for???" I hear that and always think about how crippling a move that would be for our long term future. We just need to stay the course and not go overboard in our FA spending.


If I'm not mistaken, we have the early bird rights on everyone we would want to extend/resign anyway. Having those rights allows us to spend money on them over the cap. So we can still sign a Max FA and not worry about room for Vuc/Hark/Harris/Dipo. It may get expensive, but not impossible.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread Part ? (Will update tomorrow 

Post#1085 » by JrDrex » Tue Jul 9, 2013 2:54 pm

Here is how we rate the top prospects available in this year's draft:

1. Kwame Brown
2. Eddy Curry
3. Rodney White
4. Eddie Griffin
5. Tyson Chandler
6. Richard Jefferson
7. Jason Richardson
8. Joe Johnson
9. Shane Battier
10. DeSagana Diop
11. Pau Gasol
12. Loren Woods
13. Zach Randolph
14. Brendan Haywood
15. Michael Bradley
16. Gilbert Arenas
17. Steven Hunter
18. Joseph Forte
19. Tony Parker
20. Jamaal Tinsley
21. Kedrick Brown
22. Vladimir Radmanovic
23. Gerald Wallace
24. Omar Cook
25. Ousmane Cisse
26. Jason Collins
27. Troy Murphy
28. Terence Morris
29. Brian Scalabrine


*groan*
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Re: Official Speculation Thread Part ? (Will update tomorrow 

Post#1086 » by magicman112 » Tue Jul 9, 2013 3:00 pm

_DudeItsMagic_ wrote:i think we can all agree that Oladipo after 2 games at PG is better than Duhon


He was better than Duhon after making his first shot in the first game, or hell even when he stepped on the court lol
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Re: Official Speculation Thread Part ? (Will update tomorrow 

Post#1087 » by LBPTarHeel27 » Tue Jul 9, 2013 3:05 pm

JrDrex wrote:
Here is how we rate the top prospects available in this year's draft:

1. Kwame Brown
2. Eddy Curry
3. Rodney White
4. Eddie Griffin
5. Tyson Chandler
6. Richard Jefferson
7. Jason Richardson
8. Joe Johnson
9. Shane Battier
10. DeSagana Diop
11. Pau Gasol
12. Loren Woods
13. Zach Randolph
14. Brendan Haywood
15. Michael Bradley
16. Gilbert Arenas
17. Steven Hunter
18. Joseph Forte
19. Tony Parker
20. Jamaal Tinsley
21. Kedrick Brown
22. Vladimir Radmanovic
23. Gerald Wallace
24. Omar Cook
25. Ousmane Cisse
26. Jason Collins
27. Troy Murphy
28. Terence Morris
29. Brian Scalabrine


*groan*


Hey don't forget...we also reached for a guy @ 22 that wasn't even on that list. He turned out to be a stud. Jeryl Sasser. We also traded for Brendan Haywood @ 20, then traded him away. So we went 1-3 in terms of sustainable NBA players...but traded that 1.

Players drafted after our #15 pick...meaning we had THREE shots at these guys and whiffed...

Zach Randolph
Gerald Wallace
Tony Parker
Gilbert Arenas

We then had the #32 pick as well and had the chance to grab...
Mehmet Okur
Earl Watson
Brian Sacalabrine
Bobby Simmons

So let's take a stroll down hypothetical lane. Imagine if Duncan had signed with us that summer...

PG Tony Parker/Darrell Armstrong
SG Mike Miller/Tracy McGrady
SF Tracy McGrady/Gerald Wallace
PF Zach Randolph/Tim Duncan
C Tim Duncan/Mehmet Okur

IR: Grant Hill

We really were very close and had a good opportunity to build a dynasty.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread Part ? (Will update tomorrow 

Post#1088 » by OrlandO » Tue Jul 9, 2013 3:41 pm

We are developing AND tanking.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread Part ? (Will update tomorrow 

Post#1089 » by Optimus_Steel » Tue Jul 9, 2013 3:42 pm

We were looking at Tony Parker and even Jamaal Tinsley and we passed on them both for Jerryl Sasser and Doc Rivers tall PG experiment..................

I don't think we were looking at Arenas at the time.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread Part ? (Will update tomorrow 

Post#1090 » by Optimus_Steel » Tue Jul 9, 2013 3:42 pm

magicman112 wrote:
_DudeItsMagic_ wrote:i think we can all agree that Oladipo after 2 games at PG is better than Duhon


He was better than Duhon after making his first shot in the first game, or hell even when he stepped on the court lol



Did anyone notice that Lakers waived Duhon. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Official Speculation Thread Part ? (Will update tomorrow 

Post#1091 » by OrlandO » Tue Jul 9, 2013 3:46 pm

Optimus_Steel wrote:
magicman112 wrote:
_DudeItsMagic_ wrote:i think we can all agree that Oladipo after 2 games at PG is better than Duhon


He was better than Duhon after making his first shot in the first game, or hell even when he stepped on the court lol



Did anyone notice that Lakers waived Duhon. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Shocker!

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Re: Official Speculation Thread Part ? (Will update tomorrow 

Post#1092 » by trebone » Tue Jul 9, 2013 4:01 pm

_DudeItsMagic_ wrote:i think we can all agree that Oladipo after 2 games at PG is better than Duhon



Darrell Armstrong is still better than Doodie! :D
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Re: Official Speculation Thread Part ? (Will update tomorrow 

Post#1093 » by Blue_and_Whte » Tue Jul 9, 2013 4:12 pm

OrlandO wrote:
Optimus_Steel wrote:
magicman112 wrote:
He was better than Duhon after making his first shot in the first game, or hell even when he stepped on the court lol



Did anyone notice that Lakers waived Duhon. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Official Speculation Thread Part ? (Will update tomorrow 

Post#1094 » by Edrock » Tue Jul 9, 2013 4:17 pm

LBPTarHeel27 wrote:So let's take a stroll down hypothetical lane. Imagine if Duncan had signed with us that summer...

PG Tony Parker/Darrell Armstrong
SG Mike Miller/Tracy McGrady
SF Tracy McGrady/Gerald Wallace
PF Zach Randolph/Tim Duncan
C Tim Duncan/Mehmet Okur

IR: Grant Hill

We really were very close and had a good opportunity to build a dynasty.


To clarify, I think that Duncan and T-Mac were mutually exclusive... I think T-Mac was the Magic's plan-B if Duncan didn't sign (thank GOD Eddie Jones signed with the Heat instead of the Magic that off-season).
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Re: Official Speculation Thread Part ? (Will update tomorrow 

Post#1095 » by CourtsideTV » Tue Jul 9, 2013 4:50 pm

Edrock wrote:
LBPTarHeel27 wrote:So let's take a stroll down hypothetical lane. Imagine if Duncan had signed with us that summer...

PG Tony Parker/Darrell Armstrong
SG Mike Miller/Tracy McGrady
SF Tracy McGrady/Gerald Wallace
PF Zach Randolph/Tim Duncan
C Tim Duncan/Mehmet Okur

IR: Grant Hill

We really were very close and had a good opportunity to build a dynasty.


To clarify, I think that Duncan and T-Mac were mutually exclusive... I think T-Mac was the Magic's plan-B if Duncan didn't sign (thank GOD Eddie Jones signed with the Heat instead of the Magic that off-season).


pretty sure we were gonna get all 3..
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Re: Official Speculation Thread Part ? (Will update tomorrow 

Post#1096 » by LBPTarHeel27 » Tue Jul 9, 2013 5:05 pm

Edrock wrote:
LBPTarHeel27 wrote:So let's take a stroll down hypothetical lane. Imagine if Duncan had signed with us that summer...

PG Tony Parker/Darrell Armstrong
SG Mike Miller/Tracy McGrady
SF Tracy McGrady/Gerald Wallace
PF Zach Randolph/Tim Duncan
C Tim Duncan/Mehmet Okur

IR: Grant Hill

We really were very close and had a good opportunity to build a dynasty.


To clarify, I think that Duncan and T-Mac were mutually exclusive... I think T-Mac was the Magic's plan-B if Duncan didn't sign (thank GOD Eddie Jones signed with the Heat instead of the Magic that off-season).


It was all three like someone else mentioned.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread Part ? (Will update tomorrow 

Post#1097 » by cedric76 » Tue Jul 9, 2013 5:24 pm

magicsanta wrote:Am I the only one who believes that player developement is fundamentally different than tanking?

Player Developement is the combination of measures inteded to improve the players, with the ultimate goal of assembling a team that's capable of winning games, by improving its members individually.



Nope but people here love the word tanking, tank tank tank , lose, lose, sukk, sukk, that s only what u hear on this board :-(


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Re: Official Speculation Thread Part ? (Will update tomorrow 

Post#1098 » by MAGICian619 » Tue Jul 9, 2013 5:29 pm

LBPTarHeel27 wrote:
Edrock wrote:
LBPTarHeel27 wrote:So let's take a stroll down hypothetical lane. Imagine if Duncan had signed with us that summer...

PG Tony Parker/Darrell Armstrong
SG Mike Miller/Tracy McGrady
SF Tracy McGrady/Gerald Wallace
PF Zach Randolph/Tim Duncan
C Tim Duncan/Mehmet Okur

IR: Grant Hill

We really were very close and had a good opportunity to build a dynasty.


To clarify, I think that Duncan and T-Mac were mutually exclusive... I think T-Mac was the Magic's plan-B if Duncan didn't sign (thank GOD Eddie Jones signed with the Heat instead of the Magic that off-season).


It was all three like someone else mentioned.


I'm pretty positive we could only afford 2 max contracts and the initial plan was to sign Duncan and Hill. When Duncan passed on us, we moved to McGrady. If I remember correctly, we even had a huge banner made up that had both(and only) Duncan and Hill on it in Magic jerseys.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread Part ? (Will update tomorrow 

Post#1099 » by LBPTarHeel27 » Tue Jul 9, 2013 5:31 pm

MAGICian619 wrote:
LBPTarHeel27 wrote:
Edrock wrote:
To clarify, I think that Duncan and T-Mac were mutually exclusive... I think T-Mac was the Magic's plan-B if Duncan didn't sign (thank GOD Eddie Jones signed with the Heat instead of the Magic that off-season).


It was all three like someone else mentioned.


I'm pretty positive we could only afford 2 max contracts and the initial plan was to sign Duncan and Hill. When Duncan passed on us, we moved to McGrady. If I remember correctly, we even had a huge banner made up that had both(and only) Duncan and Hill on it in Magic jerseys.


You have some of the details right but T-Mac was on record saying he would have signed here for less if it meant getting Duncan. I'm sure someone can find an article, if not I will later when I get home.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread Part ? (Will update tomorrow 

Post#1100 » by MAGICian619 » Tue Jul 9, 2013 5:42 pm

LBPTarHeel27 wrote:
MAGICian619 wrote:
LBPTarHeel27 wrote:
It was all three like someone else mentioned.


I'm pretty positive we could only afford 2 max contracts and the initial plan was to sign Duncan and Hill. When Duncan passed on us, we moved to McGrady. If I remember correctly, we even had a huge banner made up that had both(and only) Duncan and Hill on it in Magic jerseys.


You have some of the details right but T-Mac was on record saying he would have signed here for less if it meant getting Duncan. I'm sure someone can find an article, if not I will later when I get home.


Yah, easy for McGrady to say after he already got the max. I doubt he would have taken significantly less money.

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