Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 3

[Kanyewest]

Seraphin is complicated IMO due to his '11-'12 years, getting his body into NBA shape, still learning the speed of the NBA, still learning how to pass out of a double team and who he is generally combined with on the court.

His production was much better the previous year and my guess is he has potential well above that threshold - so you don't want to dump him just yet especially give the duration and stochastic way that big men develop.

He still isn't NBA ready in terms of his conditioning - but last year was an improvement.

Other teams adjusted to his post moves from the season before and he hasn't yet adjusted to the speed of the double teams - I would give this time.

Lastly, he is often paired with Booker - I would say he would be much better paired with a volume rebounder on the defensive end and a stretch FC player on the offensive end.

So, I think we just have to wait and see how he develops this season - and that will be key for the Wiz making the playoffs and EG keeping his job. I would rather have the playoffs.

This year, Seraphin played with an injured Nene (not as good as last year's Nene), Singleton, Booker (was he worse this year too?) +Vesley, Okafor

Last year, Seraphin played with Nene(healthy), James Singleton, Booker, Vesley(who was better)

It certainly could be part of the argument. Seraphin will have the opportunity to adjust this offseason and prepare for double teams. Starting to play basketball at a late age (at 15) could be responsible for his lack of basketball IQ. Certainly hope the Wizards coaching staff helps him along.

Bottomline, the Wizards need to upgrade their frontline. It is pretty much low risk to see if they can internally develop their talent with Seraphin, Booker, Vesley since they will all be expiring and their trade value is pretty low.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Last season, Seraphin played 1721 minutes total. He was on the court with Booker for 380 of those minutes. So, the two played together about 22% of the time. Booker ranked 10th last season in minutes played with Seraphin. While I agree he'd probably look a bit better with a stretch 4 who was also a first-rate rebounder, reality is that there aren't many of those guys.

I wouldn't spend much time worrying about finding a running buddy who can cover for the fact that Seraphin rebounds like a SF and can't/won't pass out of the post. I'd do my best to help him improve, but if he doesn't I'd move on. It'd be great if he comes back significantly improved. I hope he does. But, entering his 4th season -- it really is time for him to play better if he wants to stick around.

Seraphin's been a Wizard as long as John Wall has. This will be his fourth NBA season.

We already know Seraphin shoots often, doesn't get to the line, and doesn't rebound well. Unlike a guy like Olynyk or Sullinger, he's not a high IQ player. However, unlike them, he does have athleticism and physicality to be better than average defender. Kevin Seraphin can deny post position with the best of them. He's a stout defender when motivated. My main problem with him is he is low motor and seems to be not that motivated to do anything but shoot.

I've always thought Seraphin needs to play PF next to a tall C, like Javale. (Maybe he'd be the short C and Javale the tall PF). If the Wizards ever traded for someone like a healthy Pau, Kevin can play with him. He obviously plays well next to a healthy Nene.

This season will tell with Seraphin, but I'm not averse to seeing him go.

[dckingsfan]

Sorry but 64th out of 64 is breaking bad. There are no justifications for it other than to accept that he's really bad. I don't buy any excuse for lack of conditioning, adjusting to the speed of double teams, and having to play with Booker - especially considering how little Booker played last season. Somethings dramatic have to change for him to achieve mediocrity, and I don't think it makes sense to expect those dramatic changes to occur. If they do, it's pure bonus.

Understood - I don't think he will be traded before the season so we will get to watch it unfold. I would look for something like:
PER > 14
DRB% > 17%
AST% > 8%
eFG% > .500

I sure hope he improves because I have even less faith that Singleton, Booker or Vesely will improve.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Seraphin is complicated IMO due to his '11-'12 years, getting his body into NBA shape, still learning the speed of the NBA, still learning how to pass out of a double team and who he is generally combined with on the court.

His production was much better the previous year and my guess is he has potential well above that threshold - so you don't want to dump him just yet especially give the duration and stochastic way that big men develop.

He still isn't NBA ready in terms of his conditioning - but last year was an improvement.

Other teams adjusted to his post moves from the season before and he hasn't yet adjusted to the speed of the double teams - I would give this time.

Lastly, he is often paired with Booker - I would say he would be much better paired with a volume rebounder on the defensive end and a stretch FC player on the offensive end.

So, I think we just have to wait and see how he develops this season - and that will be key for the Wiz making the playoffs and EG keeping his job. I would rather have the playoffs.

This year, Seraphin played with an injured Nene (not as good as last year's Nene), Singleton, Booker (was he worse this year too?) +Vesley, Okafor

Last year, Seraphin played with Nene(healthy), James Singleton, Booker, Vesley(who was better)

It certainly could be part of the argument. Seraphin will have the opportunity to adjust this offseason and prepare for double teams. Starting to play basketball at a late age (at 15) could be responsible for his lack of basketball IQ. Certainly hope the Wizards coaching staff helps him along.

Bottomline, the Wizards need to upgrade their frontline. It is pretty much low risk to see if they can internally develop their talent with Seraphin, Booker, Vesley since they will all be expiring and their trade value is pretty low.

I don't think it's the late start. He puts a lot of work on that devastating hook shot and post moves.

I believe he thinks scoring is all there is to basketball.

[dckingsfan]

This season will tell with Seraphin, but I'm not averse to seeing him go.

Cosign - we will see. I would be very happy if he has a dramatic improvement if for no other reason than he becomes trade bait.

[payitforward]

Interesting development on OKC. They drafted high profile players Steven Adams and Andre Roberson. But they also drafted a stretch four named Grant Jerrett.

http://basketball.realgm.com/player/Gra ... mary/24246

The guy is 19 years old and he only averaged 5 points and 3 rebounds at Arizona this season. I saw the guy live when the Wildcats played here in a Christmas tourney, but I don't remember him. (I noticed Solomon Hill and also their fresman C, Adam Tarczewski). Jerrett wasn't happy at Arizona, and instead of transferring he declared for the NBA. That almost NEVER works out, but he got drafted.

It's just summer league, but the guy so far is hitting the deep ball. The Thunder have had their eye on him for a while. http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-thunder ... le/3857673

Sam Presti will never live down the Harden trade, because it's becoming more apparent (and I was wrong about this) that Jeremy Lamb isn't that strong a player. But still, I think Presti has a really good eye for talent. I expect to hear a lot from Adams, Roberson, and even this kid Jerrett down the road.

Agreed -- Jerrett looks quite good. Only SL blah blah blah... but actually that's what makes it fun to speculate! Like you I *love* the long shots. There are quite a lot this year.

Btw, it's hard to believe Presti thought Lamb was going to step up in a way that would begin to compensate for losing Harden. His back was against the wall -- the mistake was believing in Westbrook and maxxing him. That's the guy they should have traded, but once he has that enormous contract...

[Ruzious]

I agree with PIF. Westbrook was the one to trade. He likely had even more trade value than Harden, and getting a PG who doesn't look for his shot so much would make more sense when you have Durant (and Harden).

[LyricalRico]

I agree with PIF. Westbrook was the one to trade. He likely had even more trade value than Harden, and getting a PG who doesn't look for his shot so much would make more sense when you have Durant (and Harden).

[pancakes3]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/94625 ... ources-say

Bynum to cavs. Yikes. We'll have pretty stiff competition getting seeded 6-8...

[Kanyewest]

I think OKC would have ended up in a similar situation if they had traded Westbrook- they were unlikely to get fair value for him like they did Harden. Ultimately the Perkins extension cost them- his play has been horrible.

[Nivek]

If Bynum gets healthy and returns to previous form, Cleveland should be much improved. Here are the top 5 names that show up in my statistical doppleganger machine as being "most similar" to Bynum in 2011-12 (he was 24 that season):

- Pau Gasol -- age 26
- Yao Ming -- 23
- Hakeem -- 25
- McDyess -- 26
- Daugherty -- 26

Pretty good group.

[deneem4]

I think OKC would have ended up in a similar situation if they had traded Westbrook- they were unlikely to get fair value for him like they did Harden. Ultimately the Perkins extension cost them- his play has been horrible.

The Perkins trade cost them...keeping jeff greeb for the rest of tht season shouldve been a priority...okc wouldve got a championship last yr

[LyricalRico]

The Perkins trade cost them...keeping jeff greeb for the rest of tht season shouldve been a priority...okc wouldve got a championship last yr

Agreed, Perkins has not been the answer for them and they definitely overpaid.

Going back even further, I actually disagreed with the Jeff Green pick when they first made it. IIRC they picked him #5 (pick came from Boston in the Ray Allen trade) in the same draft that they took Durant #2. I couldn't understand why they'd use two lottery picks on guys that played the same position. From the moment they drafted Green, the clock was ticking on an eventual trade IMO. It was just a matter of when and what they'd get in return.

The 2007 draft wasn't super deep, but if they could have come out with a true big like Noah (or even Hawes or Jason Smith in a trade down scenario) they'd have been in a much better situation IMO and wouldn't have had to make the Perkins mistake.

[W. Unseld]

A whole lot of Seraphin talk for a thread entitled "Discussing Other Teams' Moves" anywho, I find myself totally intrigued by the Boston coaching hire. Will he be a total bust b/c he has no talent? Will he be a total bust b/c he doesn't understand the NBA game? Will Rondo totally implode on him? My understanding is his stat guy from Butler just got hired and the stat guy would spend 10-12 hours breaking down every game and compile data that was staggering and then break it down into 10 page reports ie which line ups worked best, which plays worked best, which defenses frustrated Butler the most, even Butler's winning % when performing certain practice drills before games.

Right now I think of him like I think of Chip Kelly for the Eagles--yeah the talent is down but he might be able to find some crazy way to win with lesser talent or at least make it very, very interesting.

[W. Unseld]

The Perkins trade cost them...keeping jeff greeb for the rest of tht season shouldve been a priority...okc wouldve got a championship last yr

Agreed, Perkins has not been the answer for them and they definitely overpaid.

Perkins gives them someone who can guard Dwight w/o needing a double team.

[deneem4]

The Perkins trade cost them...keeping jeff greeb for the rest of tht season shouldve been a priority...okc wouldve got a championship last yr

Agreed, Perkins has not been the answer for them and they definitely overpaid.

Going back even further, I actually disagreed with the Jeff Green pick when they first made it. IIRC they picked him #5 (pick came from Boston in the Ray Allen trade) in the same draft that they took Durant #2. I couldn't understand why they'd use two lottery picks on guys that played the same position. From the moment they drafted Green, the clock was ticking on an eventual trade IMO. It was just a matter of when and what they'd get in return.

The 2007 draft wasn't super deep, but if they could have come out with a true big like Noah (or even Hawes or Jason Smith in a trade down scenario) they'd have been in a much better situation IMO and wouldn't have had to make the Perkins mistake.

I actually liked it...look at the lineup they had
Westbrook
Harden
Durant
Green
Ibaka
A bit undersized but I dont see them losing in 7

[deneem4]

The Perkins trade cost them...keeping jeff greeb for the rest of tht season shouldve been a priority...okc wouldve got a championship last yr

Agreed, Perkins has not been the answer for them and they definitely overpaid.

Perkins gives them someone who can guard Dwight w/o needing a double team.

Perkins couldnt stop asik

[Ruzious]

Well, seems like the Bucks are collecting 2nd round picks. They've acquired 4 since the draft - 2 for Redick and 2 from Sacramento for a Moute. Maybe they'll collect them all and ransom them back to the Association. Now, Milwaukee could really use Ariza. The closest thing they have to a 3 who's ready to play is Delfino - who's more of a 2. And now they don't have a defensive specialist forward.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

A whole lot of Seraphin talk for a thread entitled "Discussing Other Teams' Moves" anywho, I find myself totally intrigued by the Boston coaching hire. Will he be a total bust b/c he has no talent? Will he be a total bust b/c he doesn't understand the NBA game? Will Rondo totally implode on him? My understanding is his stat guy from Butler just got hired and the stat guy would spend 10-12 hours breaking down every game and compile data that was staggering and then break it down into 10 page reports ie which line ups worked best, which plays worked best, which defenses frustrated Butler the most, even Butler's winning % when performing certain practice drills before games.

Right now I think of him like I think of Chip Kelly for the Eagles--yeah the talent is down but he might be able to find some crazy way to win with lesser talent or at least make it very, very interesting.

I, too, noticed today the wire report that Brad Stevens hired his Butler analytics whiz. I agree with you, WU, that he's going to find a winning combination if possible. He's going to maximize what he's got, most likely.

Honestly, I expect Stevens and Joerger to both come in kicking butt and taking names. They can't go further than their talent, but I don't expect Hollins or Rivers will be missed that much in time. On Boston, obviously, Garnett and Pierce will be missed. OTOH, they're going to have some emerging players.

I can't see Rondo staying too long before trade options get really too good to pass up. Denver really needs a pass-first PG now. Houston could be looking to move Asik and Lin. The Lakers want to win while Kobe is still on the roster. I could easily see Pau in the Cs front court. Rondo will be in demand all over the league.

[Nivek]

That stat guy from Butler is going to need to find a way to accelerate the process. They play a lot more games a lot more frequently in the NBA. Won't be too big an issue -- the Celtics already have first-rate stat guys (Mike Zarren is as good as they come) and I'm sure they'll let Stevens hire an assistant for his own stat guy. For the stat goobers of the world, the stat kid hire was pretty inevitable. We should have started a pool on how soon the hire would happen.

I think Stevens will be a good NBA coach. He'll need better players to have a shot at winning, of course.