Fat's PG Rankings (2/3/2014 update pg 8)

[SWedd523]

I can see Lillard as +/- 1 with Kemba, but I don't think Rubio has any business being above either one. Nobody can shoot in the 30s and be that high.

[penquin11]

I think you have Conely, Rubio, Holiday, Lillard, and Rondo too high.

Rubio shot 35% and was a TO machine, Conely is unspectacular and benefits from the depth that pulls defenders off him, Holiday started hot but fell off the face of the Earth- not to mention the entire Discussion of Kemba vs him, and Lillard while exciting really was inconsistent on a rather well built Blazers team. Rondo is in for a rude awakening next year, he has great vision, but without stars around him he is going to face alot more pressure, that stated he is a tremendous player.

lawson ought to be higher- he makes the wheels turn on that team. Wall also went off last year after returning from injury.

I think you under-rate Kemba, he managed to be a very productive player without any real post help and facing zones/double teams.

[mrknowitall215]

I want to put Kemba in top 10 PG discussion, but I'll be patient with it & play the fence by keeping him right around 13-17 until he's more experienced & proven. This upcoming season could quite possibly staple his positioning as an above average player at his respective position. I hope all of the hardwork that he's putting in pays off

[Eoghan]

Pretty good list but there is no way I'm putting Chris Paul ahead of Tony Parker. CP3 barely knows what playoffs look like compared to Parker. Rubio should be in the top 10 in my (unpopular) opinion. He put up really good numbers for a guy that can't shoot and had nobody to pass it to. I think Jrue is overrated a bit. I don't even think Detroit considers Knight a PG anymore.

[fatlever]

let kemba earn his top 10 ranking. if he shows more growth this season and matures as a pick and roll pg and improves slightly on his fg% he will get there.

rubio's fg% gets too much attention. he does everything else at a very high level - passing, rebounding, defense, running the offense etc... he creates so much for everyone around him. does he need to improve? absolutely. but he is not there to score. thats not what he is about. not suggesting he is in the same class as a young jason kidd, but kidd was very similar in terms of fg%. kidd had 9 seasons where he shot under 40%.

i definitely dont agree about conley being ranked too high (well, they are my rankings so of course i dont agree... haha). conley is one of the most underrated players in the league (and you all know i hate ohio state, so its painful for me to admit that).

if wall starts winning more and leads that team to playoffs, his ranking will climb quickly. the talent and numbers are there. now he has to show leadership and wins.

i expect holiday to fall a bit this year. but i am giving him some credit for his good 1st half, his all-star berth, holding together a terrible sixers team for longer than expected and playing really good defense.

i think the lillard vs kemba debate is going to be a really good one for a long time. i think kemba takes the lead this year as his play starts to translate into more wins and increased offensive efficiency for the team.

as for parker and paul, i had parker #1 last year at this time, which was a little unpopular. and i had parker at #1 halfway thru the finals. while i know it was probably related to the hamstring, i had to push him down a little. he just didnt show up when they needed him the most. this will be the last year i dont penalize paul for not getting further in the playoffs. put up or shut up time for him. no more excuses. no more diva behavior. no more coach killing. just get to the western conf finals and play well in the process.

[HornetJail]

Well I'm here, sleep isn't coming anytime soon, so here's my top 30 going into opening night 2013-14:

1) Paul - #1 PG in the league and has been so for years, nothing's changed
2) Westbrook - going to come back on a completely different level. top 5 player in the league, book it
3) Curry - best shooting in the game hands down. incredible in the second half and postseason
4) Parker - great player no doubt, but age is going to eventually catch up to him
5) Irving - ready to take the next step- his team could be a PO team next year and he could lead them there
6) Rose - the dude won't have played in an NBA game in more than 18 months. this is reaaaaaalllly generous tbh
7) Williams - obviously a great player, crazy offensive player, all depends on how jason kidd uses him in the offense
8) Wall - like irving, ready to take the next step on a potential playoff team. was hot to end last season but can he ride that into 13-14?
9) Walker - bold pick, maybe slightly biased, but Kemba was a borderline-top-12 PG without any kind of big man up front, now he has Zeller and the best scoring center in the game
10) Holiday - we saw how Holiday struggled with another ball-handler when he played with Iggy. could that happen with Evans and Gordon?
11) Lillard - he'll improve a little from last season, but I don't see a Wall/irving/Kemba-type leap
12) Lawson - the heart and soul of the Denver Nuggets, now has JJ Hickson AND Javale to throw lobs to. Fun
13) Rondo - fans are in for a very rude awakening. i think doc's system made Rondo the player he is, and without Doc, KG, Pierce, plus the ACL recovery, it's going to be a huge fall from grace unfortunately.
14) Conley - always thought Conley was a highly overrated point guard. He's proved me wrong a little over the last year, but nothing that puts him over Rondo and the 5 young up-and-comers before him.
15) Lowry - Major disappointment so far in T-Dot. His numbers went DOWN to 9ppg after Calderon left town. Still good for nice all-around numbers though. I think he'll bounce back though
16) Teague - He's slipped far under the radar. If he's in ATL, it's just him, Millsap, and Horford. Clear-cut third option with both #1 and #2 being big men.
17) Rubio - Meh. His all-around numbers are really, really nice but he shoots icky percentages: 36/29/80. If he can stop giving me a reason to call him "Bricky Scrubio" then he'll be unstoppable, but till then, he's stuck here
18) Dragic - Hoping he bounces back some after a bad year, still a terrific PG who suffers from a lot of inconsistency
19) Nash - I don't know whether to rank him in the top 8 or the top 40. All I know is D'Antoni is a bum who doesn't realize he can't run-and-gun with a 65-year-old point guard.
20) Felton - like Dragic, great talent who's inconsistent as all hell. we all know that.
21) Jack - goes from backing Curry to backing Irving. He can play alongside Irving. This is a bit high for a backup, but he is the best backup in the league.
22) Calderon - he'll have a hell of a time playing with Dirk. The shooting and the passing will be something to watch. So will the defense but in the opposite extreme.
23) Lin - If he works on his shot to the point where he drills threes when he's got space, then he's much higher on this list. if not, he'll be a hindrance to Harden/Howard/Parsons and will be much lower.
24) Jennings - i hope he doesn't go screw up some playoff team's gameplan by chucking up 30 shots per 36. His ranking depends on the situation.
25) Burke - he's going to be a low-end PG as a rookie, but you expect as much from a rookie. he'll eventually make quite a few teams regret passing on him
26) Bledsoe - I'm still not sold on Bledsoe as a starter. Backup to Chris Paul was as perfect as it gets.
27) Hill - kind of like a rich man's Mario Chalmers, just thrives in his role, but the Pacers would be better off with a real playmaker. Hill is a terrible playmaker and not a great enough shooter or defender to make up for it
28) Sessions - I still think Sessions would be as good if not better than Jarrett Jack in that sixth man role on a playoff team. we'll just have to wait and see
29) Knight - better off as a Rodney-Stuckey-esque backup combo guard, but still a great player to have
30) Vasquez - received inflated assist stats in the NO system, again better suited as a third guard on a team that needs stability off the bench. Fit with the Kings is pretty questionable.

[LamarMatic7]

sorry, man, but that wasn't slightly biased, that was very biased.

Ask any knowledgeable fan or expert of the league who doesn't have any bias in this matter and he'll put Holiday, Lillard, Lawson, Rondo, Conley, Rubio and Jack ahead of Kemba. And, in my opinion, he wouldn't be wrong.

It's still an argument on who's better when you compare him with Teague, Hill and Calderon (completely different playing style, can't compare him with these two), Felton, Dragic and Lowry.

[HornetJail]

sorry, man, but that wasn't slightly biased, that was very biased.

Ask any knowledgeable fan or expert of the league who doesn't have any bias in this matter and he'll put Holiday, Lillard, Lawson, Rondo, Conley, Rubio and Jack ahead of Kemba. And, in my opinion, he wouldn't be wrong.

It's still an argument on who's better when you compare him with Teague, Hill and Calderon (completely different playing style, can't compare him with these two), Felton, Dragic and Lowry.

i considered putting Holiday in front of Kemba but then I remembered how he struggled with another ball handler in Iguodala. Tyreke isn't much different and Gordon is a ball handler as well. Rondo is working his way back from his ACL and now has nobody to pass to. Rubio can't be above average until he shoots more than 36% from the field. Jack is a backup PG. he's the best one in the game, but he's still a back up for a reason. Conley, Lillard, and Lawson can go either way. And that's we're my bias came in a little.

These are just my projections for next season. Kemba is at least one tier above Felton and Co. right now, wait till next year.

[fatlever]

i repeat, jason kidd was the best pg in the league for almost a decade and shot under 40% NINE times in his career, many times hovering around 36%. rubio isnt kidd, but they have a ton of similarities in their games. you also should factor in that his 1st year he was a rookie and last year he was coming back from major knee injury and by the time was playing everyone else was injured. you can't ingore 13pts, 8ast, 5reb, and 3stls. thats nasty.

[fatlever]

and kemba ahead of conley, lawson and rondo is just extremely biased and based on wishful thinking. i can listen to arguments about kemba ahead of rubio, lillard and holiday because they are all close, but there is no argument right now to convince me he should be ahead of those other 3. its not a ranking of where i hope players will be in a year or two, its based on right now.

[SWedd523]

Three of Kidd's nine sub 40% were the three most recent when he's been a shell of his former self. Even when he was shooting poorly in his prime (age ~25-30), he was still a 16 point, 10 assist, 7 rebound, 2 steal player on 40% shooting. Sure they have "similarities" in that he's an extremely poor man's version of him. Comparing the two is an insult to a top 10 all-time PG.

[fatlever]

from my original post

not suggesting he is in the same class as a young jason kidd

[fatlever]

that being said, check out the comparison between their 1st two years, per 36 numbers.

http://bkref.com/tiny/O0kGJ

rubio is definitely a poor mans version of kidd and will never be in that class. he doesnt have kidd's athleticism and kidd (even at a young age was a better scorer and shooter), but they are similar, especially in the since that they both do so much on the court despite the poor shooting.

now, if rubio shows no improvement in his fg% this year, people should start to get worried. i figure he will eventually get his fg% up around 40%, especially with love back and healthy.

[JMAC3]

I am calling it now, if Houston keeps Jeremy Lin, he will put up monster numbers this year.

[Eoghan]

2) Westbrook - going to come back on a completely different level. top 5 player in the league, book it
6) Rose - the dude won't have played in an NBA game in more than 18 months. this is reaaaaaalllly generous tbh

Rondo is working his way back from his ACL and now has nobody to pass to.

I'm confused, is Westbrook superhuman and have the healing powers of Wolverine or something? I don't understand why Westbrook is supposed to come back better than ever but Rondo and Rose are iffy.

[HornetJail]

2) Westbrook - going to come back on a completely different level. top 5 player in the league, book it
6) Rose - the dude won't have played in an NBA game in more than 18 months. this is reaaaaaalllly generous tbh

Rondo is working his way back from his ACL and now has nobody to pass to.

I'm confused, is Westbrook superhuman and have the healing powers of Wolverine or something? I don't understand why Westbrook is supposed to come back better than ever but Rondo and Rose are iffy.

Westbrook didn't tear his ACL.

[Stun704]

sorry, man, but that wasn't slightly biased, that was very biased.

Ask any knowledgeable fan or expert of the league who doesn't have any bias in this matter and he'll put Holiday, Lillard, Lawson, Rondo, Conley, Rubio and Jack ahead of Kemba. And, in my opinion, he wouldn't be wrong.

It's still an argument on who's better when you compare him with Teague, Hill and Calderon (completely different playing style, can't compare him with these two), Felton, Dragic and Lowry.

your a pessimist, no way Jack freaking jack, Rubio, and Lillard are better then Kemba. analytics back up Gilwalkers assessment, Kemba is a top 10 PG.

[KembaWalker]

Lawson and Conley I have no problem with someone putting ahead of Kemba at this point. Those guys are playoff proven. Rondo obviously when healthy is dumb to even compare to Kemba.

those other guys are a joke to say are clearly better than Kemba. Jack is a journeyman back up. Lillard is not particularly impressive when you consider he played like 40 freakin minutes. Yeah he's a rookie, but he also went straight to good roster and didn't go through a horrible lockout year. He's practically playing on easy mode compared to Kemba. Holiday is flat out bad. Turnover machine, inefficient. He does nothing better than Kemba. Rubio is the same way. for some reason people overlook his horrid shooting and the fact that he literally cannot match up with most PGs in the league because he's too slow. they say the wolves are holding him back because he plays with Ridnour and Barea yet refuse to acknowledge they have to do that because matching him up with SG on defense is the only way they can not get absolutely burned. I remember the few times Rubio picked up Kemba it was a joke how easily Kemba blew by him

[LamarMatic7]

Jack is a journeyman back up

You're saying that like he's Kevin **** Ollie. Jack is a legit candidate for the sixth man award every year you bring him off the bench.

Lillard is not particularly impressive when you consider he played like 40 freakin minutes. Yeah he's a rookie, but he also went straight to good roster and didn't go through a horrible lockout year. He's practically playing on easy mode compared to Kemba.

How does playing 40 minutes make it unimpressive? If anything that's an argument you should use in Lillard's defense. The dude played every single game of the season and never hit the rookie wall despite averaging close to 40 minutes. I won't start on Portland and its horrible bench because we are obviously talking about the Bobcats here, but don't underestimate how hard it is for a rookie to get the starting position right away. It certainly isn't easy mode.

Holiday is flat out bad. Turnover machine, inefficient.

Totally. **** horrible is what he is. An all-star though.

Rubio is the same way. for some reason people overlook his horrid shooting and the fact that he literally cannot match up with most PGs in the league because he's too slow.

come on. every single point guard in the league gets blown by. a point guard can't guard a point guard straight up one-on-one without hand-checking. is he too slow? yes. but he makes up for it with very smart positioning and his long hands. Rubio's actually a decent defender.

[LamarMatic7]

analytics back up Gilwalkers assessment, Kemba is a top 10 PG.

Paul, Westbrook, Curry, Parker, Irving, Rose, Williams, Rondo, Conley, Lawson.

At least, give me these 10 and admit that he's clearly not better than any of them. Kemba isn't a top 10 point guard.