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Milwaukee Bucks Pick Giannis with pick #15

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Re: Milwaukee Bucks Pick Giannis with pick #15 

Post#1021 » by Baddy Chuck » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:06 am

interbasket wrote:Then there is this kind of problem like Charlie Bell. This is what happens, a guy is signed by an NBA team from Europe, and the whole NBA fan base almost of that team assumes he was "big overseas". It does not matter if it is actually true or not. I don't blame NBA fans for this. This is part of NBA marketing strategy and is now just engrained into how almost all NBA fans think.

So are we led to believe these Euroleague teams that Lynn Greer, Anthony Parker, Trajon Langdon, Linas Klieza etc fill up every year are just false?
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Re: Milwaukee Bucks Pick Giannis with pick #15 

Post#1022 » by interbasket » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:10 am

Look guys. I am very happy to discuss this with you and to talk about international basketball and Giannis. But I'm not here to have bunches of people telling me about how some elite European players sucked and can't play in NBA because of athleticism and that I am just wrong, in denial, and whatever else.

I am saying it over and over. List the Americans that supposedly dominated Euroleague. List them.

List the 12-13 NBA rotation point guards that have more athletic quality than say Spanoulis. List them.

Please stop with the NBA myths and nonsense, and actually do what I ask. You guys can learn something, instead of just being NBA only fans. Otherwise, I will be happy to give updates and answer questions about Giannis, but I can't discuss basic international and NBA ball with you guys, because you won't list to reason on it. Because you are just being NBA only fans and repeating a bunch of made up nonsense.

We can start by listing the Americans that supposedly dominated Euroleague. Then we can go one by one and actually analyze it, to see if it is true, or just a made up myth. Come on guys, you can do this.
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Re: Milwaukee Bucks Pick Giannis with pick #15 

Post#1023 » by Baddy Chuck » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:10 am

emunney wrote:By the way, I'm not saying there wasn't or isn't an anti-euro bias in the NBA. It certainly used to be very strong. I'm saying that's not what was holding back guys like Jasikevicius and Spanoulis. They were just not equipped to be effective in the NBA game.

Yup and the last few paragraphs of my main post that is what I basically eluded to. It's harder for some of these guys to get spots in the NBA. But its also harder because they make it harder threatening to go back to Europe, or just completely not coming over if the stars aren't aligned for them. And when they do come over and struggle, rather then trying to work through those struggles, they bolt back to be "Michael Jordan" in the Euroleague. And some of these guys just don't show anything that would show they can stick in the NBA. Guys like Spanoulis and Jasikevicius were awful in the NBA. Putrid players. A guy like Navarro though could've definitely stuck as a role player from what we saw in his short time, but he bolted at the first opportunity.
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Re: Milwaukee Bucks Pick Giannis with pick #15 

Post#1024 » by Baddy Chuck » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:14 am

interbasket wrote:I am saying it over and over. List the Americans that supposedly dominated Euroleague. List them.

By "dominated" I meant being some of the best players in the league. I mean some players that were on 1st or 2nd team all-Euroleague.

Shawn James
Mike Batiste
Henry Domercant
Jeremy Pargo
Josh Childress
Terrell McIntyre (2)
Trajan Langdon (3)
Terence Morris
Lynn Greer
Bootsy Thornton

These guys were considered top 1 or 2 at their positions by voters and a guy like Jeremy Pargo couldn't even impress in the Summerleague enough to make an NBA roster.

Maybe they don't dominate like a few of those top tier guys, but they are considered "all-stars" of the league and probably wouldn't even impress in an NBA preseason camp. Hell, most have proven they couldn't.
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Re: Milwaukee Bucks Pick Giannis with pick #15 

Post#1025 » by Ayt » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:15 am

interbasket wrote:Look guys. I am very happy to discuss this with you and to talk about international basketball and Giannis. But I'm not here to have bunches of people telling me about how some elite European players sucked and can't play in NBA because of athleticism and that I am just wrong, in denial, and whatever else.

I am saying it over and over. List the Americans that supposedly dominated Euroleague. List them...

List the 12-13 NBA rotation point guards that have more athletic quality than say Spanoulis. List them.
We can start by listing the Americans that supposedly dominated Euroleague. Then we can go one by one and actually analyze it, to see if it is true, or just a made up myth. Come on guys, you can do this.


Don't let it bother you. It is going to be nearly impossible to have a fruitful discussion on this topic since basically no one here watches any of the various European leagues.
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Re: Milwaukee Bucks Pick Giannis with pick #15 

Post#1026 » by trwi7 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:17 am

Ayt wrote:
interbasket wrote:Look guys. I am very happy to discuss this with you and to talk about international basketball and Giannis. But I'm not here to have bunches of people telling me about how some elite European players sucked and can't play in NBA because of athleticism and that I am just wrong, in denial, and whatever else.

I am saying it over and over. List the Americans that supposedly dominated Euroleague. List them...

List the 12-13 NBA rotation point guards that have more athletic quality than say Spanoulis. List them.
We can start by listing the Americans that supposedly dominated Euroleague. Then we can go one by one and actually analyze it, to see if it is true, or just a made up myth. Come on guys, you can do this.


Don't let it bother you. It is going to be nearly impossible to have a fruitful discussion on this topic since basically no one here watches any of the various European leagues.


There's a good reason for that.

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Re: Milwaukee Bucks Pick Giannis with pick #15 

Post#1027 » by AussieBuck » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:17 am

Ayt wrote:
interbasket wrote:Look guys. I am very happy to discuss this with you and to talk about international basketball and Giannis. But I'm not here to have bunches of people telling me about how some elite European players sucked and can't play in NBA because of athleticism and that I am just wrong, in denial, and whatever else.

I am saying it over and over. List the Americans that supposedly dominated Euroleague. List them...

List the 12-13 NBA rotation point guards that have more athletic quality than say Spanoulis. List them.
We can start by listing the Americans that supposedly dominated Euroleague. Then we can go one by one and actually analyze it, to see if it is true, or just a made up myth. Come on guys, you can do this.


Don't let it bother you. It is going to be nearly impossible to have a fruitful discussion on this topic since basically no one here watches any of the various European leagues.

The Euro posters on realgm consider this guy a fruitcake FWIW. Ask him some more about Rubio.
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Re: Milwaukee Bucks Pick Giannis with pick #15 

Post#1028 » by Ayt » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:21 am

AussieBuck wrote:
Ayt wrote:
interbasket wrote:Look guys. I am very happy to discuss this with you and to talk about international basketball and Giannis. But I'm not here to have bunches of people telling me about how some elite European players sucked and can't play in NBA because of athleticism and that I am just wrong, in denial, and whatever else.

I am saying it over and over. List the Americans that supposedly dominated Euroleague. List them...

List the 12-13 NBA rotation point guards that have more athletic quality than say Spanoulis. List them.
We can start by listing the Americans that supposedly dominated Euroleague. Then we can go one by one and actually analyze it, to see if it is true, or just a made up myth. Come on guys, you can do this.


Don't let it bother you. It is going to be nearly impossible to have a fruitful discussion on this topic since basically no one here watches any of the various European leagues.

The Euro posters on realgm consider this guy a fruitcake FWIW. Ask him some more about Rubio.


If he doesn't think Rubio is a basketball genius, I take back my post. :lol:
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Re: Milwaukee Bucks Pick Giannis with pick #15 

Post#1029 » by interbasket » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:31 am

Baddy Chuck wrote:
interbasket wrote:I am saying it over and over. List the Americans that supposedly dominated Euroleague. List them.

By "dominated" I meant being some of the best players in the league. I mean some players that were on 1st or 2nd team all-Euroleague.

Shawn James
Mike Batiste
Henry Domercant
Jeremy Pargo
Josh Childress
Terrell McIntyre (2)
Trajan Langdon (3)
Terence Morris
Lynn Greer
Bootsy Thornton

These guys were considered top 1 or 2 at their positions by voters and a guy like Jeremy Pargo couldn't even impress in the Summerleague enough to make an NBA roster.

Maybe they don't dominate like a few of those top tier guys, but they are considered "all-stars" of the league and probably wouldn't even impress in an NBA preseason camp. Hell, most have proven they couldn't.


So you are just making up what "dominated" means all by yourself then?

Ayt wrote:Don't let it bother you. It is going to be nearly impossible to have a fruitful discussion on this topic since basically no one here watches any of the various European leagues.


Yes, I think you are right. But like I am saying then, some guys here should listen to statements from guys that follow European basketball, and not just talk some myths. It's just a myth to say Americans dominate Euroleague, or NBA scrubs dominate Euroleague. I can assure this is complete fiction.

And is the same way to say any top Euro player that did bad in NBA was because of lack of athleticism and had nothing to do with how their coach viewed them. This is most definitely not the case, especially this is not the case in any way with Spanoulis.
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Re: Milwaukee Bucks Pick Giannis with pick #15 

Post#1030 » by Baddy Chuck » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:33 am

interbasket wrote:
Baddy Chuck wrote:
interbasket wrote:I am saying it over and over. List the Americans that supposedly dominated Euroleague. List them.

By "dominated" I meant being some of the best players in the league. I mean some players that were on 1st or 2nd team all-Euroleague.

Shawn James
Mike Batiste
Henry Domercant
Jeremy Pargo
Josh Childress
Terrell McIntyre (2)
Trajan Langdon (3)
Terence Morris
Lynn Greer
Bootsy Thornton

These guys were considered top 1 or 2 at their positions by voters and a guy like Jeremy Pargo couldn't even impress in the Summerleague enough to make an NBA roster.

Maybe they don't dominate like a few of those top tier guys, but they are considered "all-stars" of the league and probably wouldn't even impress in an NBA preseason camp. Hell, most have proven they couldn't.


So you are just making up what "dominated" means all by yourself then?

If someone is considered a top 5-10 player in a league, I'd say they were pretty dominant.
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Re: Milwaukee Bucks Pick Giannis with pick #15 

Post#1031 » by skones » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:34 am

It astounds me that this has not been brought up.

Interbasket continually harps on "being used correctly." From that, I'm assuming he means, put in a role to succeed. I don't think that's necessary for a guy to become a REALLY GOOD NBA player as opposed to a guy who is absolutely terrible. Take Jasikevicius for example. He wasn't exactly a guy who wasn't given an opportunity. He was given nearly 21 minutes a night in the NBA and simply wasn't able to produce.

European Basketball and NBA Basketball are two completely different games, which is why, USA Basketball was forced to reevaluate themselves after the 2004 Olympic failure. The European game is much more methodical and team oriented, which is why many of the top players in Europe come no where near the minutes of the top players in the NBA. I'd liken a European team to a bit of a swiss army knife. Players of different skill sets are used accordingly for specific situations, whereas NBA players log heavy minutes because there is so much isolation drawn up in the league.

This brings us back to Jasikevicius. In a league where Jasikevicius is expected to create his own shot, and create for others, while having shortcomings athletically for the shooting guard position, he's going to have a lot of issues. That's not simply because he's "being used incorrectly," it's because what works for him in Europe will not work in the NBA given the style of play. Is that to say he's a bad basketball player? Absolutely not. Is he a bad NBA player? Yes. Being used "correctly or incorrectly" in this case did not cause Jasikevicius to be a bad NBA player. His athletic limitations and style of play pigeon hole him into more of a spot up shooter role than a primary player on a team. When you go into a new work place, do you expect the new work place to adapt around you? That's basically what interbasket is calling for the NBA to do here. Fact of the matter is, when you go into a new work place, you adapt to the situation around you and adjust accordingly. If you don't, you're fired. So Jasikevicius left the NBA.

Jasikevicius was a career 39.7% shooter in the NBA. His three point percentage sat at a very respectable 35.5% which is somewhat hindered by his last 26 games in the league with Golden State. As i said, he was better suited to be a sharp shooter in the NBA. In Europe, AS SOON AS HE RETURNED, his FG% shot up 48.5% in Euroleague and 52.5% in the Greek league, which obviously shows, he was able to create better shots for himself.

Saying he was used incorrectly and because of it he was not able to become a REALLY GREAT NBA PLAYER, is awfully shortsighted IMO.
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Re: Milwaukee Bucks Pick Giannis with pick #15 

Post#1032 » by interbasket » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:41 am

I asked a guy that follows European basket a lot to enter the discussion here. If he does, I will post back to it then. I will wait until then though.

It's just too hard to respond to everyone thinking the opposite on this.

Oh and so you guys know, I think the under-20 games will be broadcast on TV at the quarterfinals and on. So I am not sure about streams until then. I will check though and see if I can find any place that has streams. But I want to ask, are we allowed to post links to streams here or not? Some forums don't allow that.
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Re: Milwaukee Bucks Pick Giannis with pick #15 

Post#1033 » by Baddy Chuck » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:46 am

interbasket wrote:But I want to ask, are we allowed to post links to streams here or not? Some forums don't allow that.

Quoting this so maybe PP or Micky see it. I'm not sure how non NBA stuff works. I wouldn't until you get confirmation though.
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Re: Milwaukee Bucks Pick Giannis with pick #15 

Post#1034 » by interbasket » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:48 am

Baddy Chuck wrote:
interbasket wrote:But I want to ask, are we allowed to post links to streams here or not? Some forums don't allow that.

Quoting this so maybe PP or Micky see it. I'm not sure how non NBA stuff works. I wouldn't until you get confirmation though.


OK thanks. What about if I found a stream on another forum? Do you think it would be OK to post a link to the forum that showed the links to the streams?
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Re: Milwaukee Bucks Pick Giannis with pick #15 

Post#1035 » by wichmae » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:01 am

Baddy Chuck wrote:
interbasket wrote:But I want to ask, are we allowed to post links to streams here or not? Some forums don't allow that.

Quoting this so maybe PP or Micky see it. I'm not sure how non NBA stuff works. I wouldn't until you get confirmation though.

Streams have a way of finding its target audience on the RealGM Bucks Board Facebook page. Just saying...
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Re: Milwaukee Bucks Pick Giannis with pick #15 

Post#1036 » by LedZepp007 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:03 am

Ayt wrote:
interbasket wrote:Look guys. I am very happy to discuss this with you and to talk about international basketball and Giannis. But I'm not here to have bunches of people telling me about how some elite European players sucked and can't play in NBA because of athleticism and that I am just wrong, in denial, and whatever else.

I am saying it over and over. List the Americans that supposedly dominated Euroleague. List them...

List the 12-13 NBA rotation point guards that have more athletic quality than say Spanoulis. List them.
We can start by listing the Americans that supposedly dominated Euroleague. Then we can go one by one and actually analyze it, to see if it is true, or just a made up myth. Come on guys, you can do this.


Don't let it bother you. It is going to be nearly impossible to have a fruitful discussion on this topic since basically no one here watches any of the various European leagues.


This


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Re: Milwaukee Bucks Pick Giannis with pick #15 

Post#1037 » by interbasket » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:25 am

MojTV is going to broadcast the games on TV.

http://mojtv.hr/kanal/tv-program/62/spo ... eljak.aspx

That means streams will be coming for the next games then. So when we find out where to post them we can.
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Re: Milwaukee Bucks Pick Giannis with pick #15 

Post#1038 » by The Wet Whistle » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:30 am

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Re: Milwaukee Bucks Pick Giannis with pick #15 

Post#1039 » by Greek » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:40 am

As far as about Spanoulis certainly his athleticism it wasnt his problem in NBA. He is very athletic even for the NBA standards with very good skill set and the ability to play pick and roll almost to perfection. Every player that is coming from a different league needs some time to adjust. The problem with an established Euroleague star like him, it was that he believed that he didnt got the proper respect from his coach. That situation produced a clash and its a part why he didnt produce.

When he was traded to Spurs i was happy because i thought that it was the perfect environment for him to flourish. Thats one of my big IF's....that one and Diamantides, in NBA...
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Re: Milwaukee Bucks Pick Giannis with pick #15 

Post#1040 » by wichmae » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:52 am

Theres this. Not much besides a nice block and a dunk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... HtH9R4fPis

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