The Tank Debate Thread

[EG73]

Then STOP WATCHING PROFESSIONAL SPORTS you fkng softie.

Don't know if sarcastic.
If you only care about championship, did you ever enjoyed seeing the Raptors ?
And if OKC, Nuggets, Memphis, Pacers and Clippers don't win a championship in the next 10 years, would you call 'softies' the people who enjoyed to see them play ?

When VC was here, I LEGIT had hope we were down the path to win a title. Hell we were one shot away from the fkn EC FINALS! (finals 99.9% we had them bucks).

That is what I want, Pro-Tankers aren't saying nothing is worth it without a title, but going into the playoffs with 0 hope of winning vs a realistic shot at a title are two different things entirely.

Ask the bucks and ask the spurs fans how they felt going into the playoffs last year, bucks probably couldn't wait to get it over with. It is embarrassing to finally get nationally televised games and get blown out by 30, almost worse then not making the playoffs in the first place. I don't want to be the first round fodder LBJ and DWade showboat over while coasting to the second round.

I partially agree with you.

Pro-tankers have to define what they want (championship and everything else is a failure ?)

You probably enjoyed more the '2nd round team' than the following 10 years of tanking.

I prefer losing by 30 against Miami in the playoffs than losing by 20 by another lottery team.

The probability of winning a championship from tanking seems so low that I don't feel it worth to suffer from more years of mediocrity. I would prefer a team that don't rely too much on drafting (above average, winning culture, well managed, attractive for FAs)

It seems most people disagree with me. Unfortunately, almost no more time for Internet for me in the following few days.

[TheRealBlizzy]

really don't tank just to watch the tankers splode!

I don't think anyone is that serious about sports, its entertainment. We all love it but at the end of the day have no effect on any decision they make, so it is what it is at the end of the day.

I would love to be a contender, others just want to be competitive in the regular ssn ~ .500 ball (hey maybe better im not going to doubt we cant improve a bit) and get a good round of playoffs games in and be done with it..

Its a personal preference, although I am starting to hate when people say that fans who are willing to watch / support a team through a horrible season to have a brighter future are not actual fans of the team, while the real fans are ones who just want to squeeze in one extra playoff appearance this year.

they are both fans, not agreeing on the plan is all

I agree, everyone here is a fan 1000%. But you must agree that you have seen many posts saying people advocating the tank route are not fans and must no longer support the team. That is flat out stupid.

[bigbadstevenson]

Imagine they had:

Burke/JL3
Derozan/Ross
Anderson/McGuire/LK
Amir//Bargnani/Acy
Val/Gray

Switch Drummond for Ross if you like, and Doron Lamb or Quincy Miller for Acy. That is a team to tank with. Heck - even throw Fields in there and it's not looking any worse.

So much for that.

[TheRealBlizzy]

Don't know if sarcastic.
If you only care about championship, did you ever enjoyed seeing the Raptors ?
And if OKC, Nuggets, Memphis, Pacers and Clippers don't win a championship in the next 10 years, would you call 'softies' the people who enjoyed to see them play ?

When VC was here, I LEGIT had hope we were down the path to win a title. Hell we were one shot away from the fkn EC FINALS! (finals 99.9% we had them bucks).

That is what I want, Pro-Tankers aren't saying nothing is worth it without a title, but going into the playoffs with 0 hope of winning vs a realistic shot at a title are two different things entirely.

Ask the bucks and ask the spurs fans how they felt going into the playoffs last year, bucks probably couldn't wait to get it over with. It is embarrassing to finally get nationally televised games and get blown out by 30, almost worse then not making the playoffs in the first place. I don't want to be the first round fodder LBJ and DWade showboat over while coasting to the second round.

I partially agree with you.

Pro-tankers have to define what they want (championship and everything else is a failure ?)

You probably enjoyed more the '2nd round team' than the following 10 years of tanking.

I prefer losing by 30 against Miami in the playoffs than losing by 20 by another lottery team.

The probability of winning a championship from tanking seems so low that I don't feel it worth to suffer from more years of mediocrity. I would prefer a team that don't rely too much on drafting (above average, winning culture, well managed, attractive for FAs)

It seems most people disagree with me. Unfortunately, almost no more time for Internet for me in the following few days.

Every championship ring has been won with a top pick, it might not be on the original team, but thats not on draft picks being bad, its on bad management post-draft of your franchise player, or the player just being a douche (lbj partly).

I understand what you mean, but the fatal problem with the point you are trying to make is saying we have been tanking for 10 years since VC left. We have never tanked except 1 year, and that was a half-assed tank. Hell, last offseason BC said we were making a strong push for the playoffs, BEFORE the Rudy Gay trade, and we started the season 4-19.

What most fans in favor of a tank for 2014 want is a chance to be a legitmate contender for the championship, just like TL and MU have stated. As currently constructed, nobody in their right minds should feel the raptors have a chance at that, go check the odds at vegas, if you do you should place a large bet!

If we tank, build a team i feel is a contender, lose in the first round, thats great! **** happens, look at okc, things can change overnight, but at least they had a feeling they could win the title going into the playoffs. I would hate going into the playoffs in the Bucks / ATL mindstate, they seem like they don't even want to be there.

[bigbadstevenson]

There was a time when to tank would have been merely an afterthought; when achievement could have been freed to flourish from its roots, those roots that had so sturdily grounded the hopes of citizens from sea to sea. On that ill-fated night when Mr. Collangelo's livelihood met its doom, they said of him, about the city that night, that it was the peacefullest man's face ever beheld there. Many added that he looked sublime and prophetic.

One of the most remarkable sufferers of the same regime - a woman - had asked at the door of the board room where he met his end, not long before, to be allowed to write down the thoughts that were inspiring her. If he had given utterance to this, and they were prophetic, they would have been these:

"I see Rudy, and Kyle, Landry, Terrence, Coach Casey, and Tim, long ranks of the new oppressors who have risen on the destruction of the old, perishing by this retributive instrument, before it shall cease out of its present use. I see a beautiful city and a brilliant people rising from this abyss, and, in their struggles to be truly free, in their triumphs and defeats, through long years to come, I see the evil of this time and of the previous time of which this is the natural birth, gradually making expiation and wearing itself out... It is a far, far deeper hole that I dig, than I have ever dug; it is a far, far better rest that I go to than I have ever known."

[LoveMyRaps]

I feel like Aaron Gordon is gonna be the REAL DEAL of next years draft. After Wiggins of course

[up n under]

No doubt. Rudy Gay will lead the charge with his new vision. Lowry will beast in a contract year. DeMar said he'd be able to hit threes, but even if he doesn't, Novak will space the floor.

Amir and Val are probably the toughest frontcourt in the league, and now they have Psycho and of course Acy. Casey will focus on D, which wins in the playoffs. And if we're in the hunt, Masai has trade chips to take us the rest of the way.

Cleveland will try to get LeBron by showing they can win. Raps will try the same for Wiggins when the time is right.

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I'm not sure if your being serious or sarcastic... A little truth in what your saying, but Amir and Val - toughest front court, that's where you stumped me.


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[akakalakin]

the system clearly needs to be changed to avoid the tank

there should be no incentive to lose whatsoever

[TheRealBlizzy]

the system clearly needs to be changed to avoid the tank

there should be no incentive to lose whatsover

Do you know how **** the raptors would then be, lol.

[dkb33]

Where are we going with this "core"?

Lowry - Considering how stacked the PG spot is he is 10-15 and much closer to 15 then 10.

DeRozan - At very best becomes a top 10 scorer in the NBA because he does not have any other skills that stand out.

Gay - Redundant with DeRozan on the team He is what he is at this point and contract aside is in the class of the Iggy/Granger/Deng

Amir - Best suited as a 3rd man off the bench for a solid team.

JV - Very young and will need 2-3 years before he truly comes into his own hopefully on the level of a M. Gasol/ Noah/Hibbert

Please explain to me why we should try to be a 7th - 11th seed when the two guys in their primes are a solid starter a guy a notch below a true All-Star player? Amir is a bench player and a very good one at that but that is what he is. DeRozan is a one trick pony who needs his one trick to become elite and I will not count him out that he can't do it but he is a scorer and thats it. JV is a pup and way to young to expect huge strides from this year and maybe next. This team needs to tank! Look at a team like the Jazz who already have Kanter/Favors/Hayward/Burke/Burks on their team and they are tanking! They already have way more promising young talent and will add another.

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

Signing Nate Robinson would be an anti-tanking move. He'd make this team much more dynamic imo. I'm not sure, though, that Dwane Casey would be able to keep him in check the way Thibodeau did.

Lowry/Robinson
DeRozan/Ross
Gay/Novak
Johnson/Hansbrough
Valanciunas/Johnson

[akakalakin]

Where are we going with this "core"?

Lowry - Considering how stacked the PG spot is he is 10-15 and much closer to 15 then 10.

DeRozan - At very best becomes a top 10 scorer in the NBA because he does not have any other skills that stand out.

Gay - Redundant with DeRozan on the team He is what he is at this point and contract aside is in the class of the Iggy/Granger/Deng

Amir - Best suited as a 3rd man off the bench for a solid team.

JV - Very young and will need 2-3 years before he truly comes into his own hopefully on the level of a M. Gasol/ Noah/Hibbert

Please explain to me why we should try to be a 7th - 11th seed when the two guys in their primes are a solid starter a guy a notch below a true All-Star player? Amir is a bench player and a very good one at that but that is what he is. DeRozan is a one trick pony who needs his one trick to become elite and I will not count him out that he can't do it but he is a scorer and thats it. JV is a pup and way to young to expect huge strides from this year and maybe next. This team needs to tank! Look at a team like the Jazz who already have Kanter/Favors/Hayward/Burke/Burks on their team and they are tanking! They already have way more promising young talent and will add another.

Tanking may not make these guys any better- even with Wiggins which is not a sure thing with the worst record. The others, puhlease wishful thinking to posit 6 franchise altering picks.

[EG73]

I don't want to sound like a dick but how can you try to argue anything with me when you clearly don't follow basketball enough, saying Arujo was the last prospect you ever followed prior to being in the nba. Most NBA fans tend to follow prospects, even without trying, as word spreads fast esp on forums like this.

I don't want to spend too much time to predict the draft sequence and have a lot of knowledge about the prospects. But that doesn't prevent me to do a good retrospective analysis on how the top pics had a successful careers and how they helped their team to become championship contenders.

If you are saying that 2014 draft is exceptional, I have to agree with you.
2003 was exceptional for 'pro-tankers', since 2 (contrary to the usual 0) players won championship with the team that drafted them - Milicic and Wade.

[up n under]

I don't necessarily support tanking, but we must be realistic in our goals and plans. I much rather be out of playoffs for another year and advance past the first round etc in 2/3 years than be a 8th seed team getting swept. If we can't put together a successful roster in the near future , we have to plan ahead. Players are long term assets, decisions must be made with the future and long term goals in mind.
That being said if we can continue to shape our roster out and have playoff contending team, I will be at ACC screaming and cheering my raptors on. But if I know we are looking to draft a prospect, get some contracts off our books and target some FA's next year , I'll rest assured that MU has a plan.


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[TheRealBlizzy]

I don't want to sound like a dick but how can you try to argue anything with me when you clearly don't follow basketball enough, saying Arujo was the last prospect you ever followed prior to being in the nba. Most NBA fans tend to follow prospects, even without trying, as word spreads fast esp on forums like this.

I don't want to spend too much time to predict the draft sequence and have a lot of knowledge about the prospects. But that doesn't prevent me to do a good retrospective analysis on how the top pics had a successful careers and how they helped their team to become championship contenders.

If you are saying that 2014 draft is exceptional, I have to agree with you.
2003 was exceptional for 'pro-tankers', since 2 (contrary to the usual 0) players won championship with the team that drafted them - Milicic and Wade.

You know out of 2003, 4/5 top picks won a ring? They all went to play with LBJ though, which sucks for the league, but where would any sane person go, cleveland or miami beach? I highly doubt wiggins leaves canada, he doesn't seem like that type of person who needs the fame like LBJ Melo CP3 ect..

[TANKNATION]

Guys quick question I made a pic consisting of 2 diff pics forged into one on Microsoft word (I know im not a pro photoshopper) does anyone know how I could save just that pic and not the document?

[bape_lovers]

i will never support my team to lose..as I said every year since i joined RGM

[up n under]

Where are we going with this "core"?

Lowry - Considering how stacked the PG spot is he is 10-15 and much closer to 15 then 10.

DeRozan - At very best becomes a top 10 scorer in the NBA because he does not have any other skills that stand out.

Gay - Redundant with DeRozan on the team He is what he is at this point and contract aside is in the class of the Iggy/Granger/Deng

Amir - Best suited as a 3rd man off the bench for a solid team.

JV - Very young and will need 2-3 years before he truly comes into his own hopefully on the level of a M. Gasol/ Noah/Hibbert

Please explain to me why we should try to be a 7th - 11th seed when the two guys in their primes are a solid starter a guy a notch below a true All-Star player? Amir is a bench player and a very good one at that but that is what he is. DeRozan is a one trick pony who needs his one trick to become elite and I will not count him out that he can't do it but he is a scorer and thats it. JV is a pup and way to young to expect huge strides from this year and maybe next. This team needs to tank! Look at a team like the Jazz who already have Kanter/Favors/Hayward/Burke/Burks on their team and they are tanking! They already have way more promising young talent and will add another.

Utahs is a great example. Developing and investing in young talent is not blowing games and trying to lose. I would switch rosters with Utah in a heart beat.


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[TheStroShow]

I am against tanking...

when has tanking led to a championship in the NBA? maybe spurs 1999 championship.. but that wasnt really a tank... their superstar got injured so they were screwed that year..

every other championship winner is majority through free agency / trade....

[akakalakin]

oh come on Wiggins would turn a 15 win team into a 55 win team

lol