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Coach Witt on 106.7 NOW...

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Re: Coach Witt on 106.7 NOW... 

Post#61 » by hands11 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:40 am

pancakes3 wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:All have to be aligned to be successful - IMO. And clearly there have been multiple factors in play for the Wizards to fail so badly at drafting and developing young talent - it is clearly a systemic problem.


Nothing in the world is 100% but I think it's safe to say that at the professional level it's largely on the players to improve. In fact, barring something medical, I can't even think of a feasible scenario where management would be more at fault than a player not improving. How would management go about that? They would have to actively sabotage a player's improvements. Effusively praise Ves's play and make sure he practices only pull up 2's from just inside the arc. Worse yet, just tying Ves down and refusing Vesely the opportunity to practice.

Seriously though, what are you all envisioning? That our player development program is just a bunch of old stocky guys in grey sweatsuits sitting on their hands doing nothing? A rusted weightroom with leaky roofs and deflated basketballs strewn about a rickety court with bent double rims and no nets? Even if that was the case, how does that preclude the players from improving on their own? Do they just shine like a freakin diamond during practice only to sit on the bench game after game, and just shrug? Hey, the player development guy didn't tell me I had to improve my game so I guess that can't be the problem. Coach Witt just has it out for me.

The only reason people think it's a systemic problem is the heavy, heavy, heavy confirmation bias going on and the lack of an obvious cause.

Confirmation bias dating back to Jarvis Hayes, Ared Effries, Party John Ramos, and Kwame and dating to now with Mcgee, Young, Blatche, Ves, Singleton, and Seraphin. It seems improbable that these guys ALL happen to be lazy/untalented. Well... improbable but not impossible. What blows the "we can't develop players" myth to bits is that players HAVE improved. John Wall. Bradley Beal. Martel Webster. I guess they were the lucky ones that our incompetent player management decided to support at the expense of everyone else?


Thats more along the lines of what I was pointing out.

Its lots of things. Its picking good individual physical talent to start with. Its also team fit. You need some chiefs and you need some worker Bees. Its also the HC, systems, etc. Its also losing breads losing. That just basic mental programing and team building stuff.

Then you have your exceptional people. The ones that can over come all the negative around them and still succeed instead of allowing the environment to pull them down. Those are more rare. The real leaders. The ones that can bring the most not only out of themselves, but the most out of others. Duncan is this type. Zen Master and Joe Gibbs also. Darrel Green was that type. They focus on whats ahead and future success and they can convince others it is reachable. And they know how to connect to people at their level to help bring them there. They also now how to pick people that fit with in their system and goals.

People the right people is very important. But its not just because of physical talents. Its as important that they have the mental disposition to succeed and over come hard challenges .

Personally, I think Randy is pretty good at doing this as well. To judge Ves, Kevin and Singleton as failures right now I think is to soon. By team choice, the decided to do what was right for Wall and Beal which was to put vets around them. Wall over came a couple years on pure will power, but he needed help. That was at the cost of Ves, Kevin and Singleton. CCJ pointed this out lots of times. In the short term, the effect on those three would clearly be negative. That was the cost of helping creative a better environment for Wall and Beal who were higher priorities for the organization The net result on them was a huge positive. And since they are the core of the future of this franchise, it was a huge net positive for the franchise.

They made the right choice.

Now they have a developing young stars, some mid age vets, and some older vets. Now you can go back and see if you can bring players like Ves, Kevin and Singleton to the party. Will any of these three make it while on this team? Maybe not. They may do better with a fresh start some place else. But I'm not writing any of them off just yet. Not while they are still here.

But for players like Otto, Glen Rice and Maynor. They are coming into a much better situation then any that Wall, Beal, Ves, Singleton or Kevin came to. And that better situation will make it tons easier for them to develop more quickly and in the right ways.

Before this new group, Beal came into the better situation then Wall did. Both great talents. Beal developed faster. I think there is a connection here. I would expect Otto has a similar or better development curve then even Beal had.

Things are getting better. As for team design, Otto seems like a good fit to go with Wall and Beals talents and personalities. And he is someone Randy really likes. As for team design. I think they are doing a much better job now.

In time, people will let go of the past, and see more of what is going on correctly right now. Then more will look to the future with more positive outlook. Its already happening.
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Re: Coach Witt on 106.7 NOW... 

Post#62 » by hands11 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:52 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
JParker227 wrote:Well we need to do something, the wizards are about to get screwed again for another year. The Heat, Bulls, Knicks, Nets, and Pacers are essential locks to make the playoffs. That means we have to contend with the Cavs, Pistons, Bucks, Hawks, 76ers for that final playoff spot. We had one of the worst teams in the NBA and granted I like Otto Porter, but you can't expect a 19 year old kid to come in here and make us playoff contenders right from jump.

We need to make moves, the cavs drafted Bennett, signed Jack, and now are potentially getting Bynum. The pistons picked up Josh Smith, the sixers and hawks are always in talks that they are interested in players. Grunfeld doesn't do jack but sit around and stuff his face. We need to make moves, we should have moved hell and earth to bring Josh Smith in here. Ernie get off your lazy butt and do something. That's all I have to say today. Just heard the knicks are interested in metta world peace, what the hell are the wizards interested in?


JParker227, I hear your concerns.

My thought: "Is it possible that Otto Porter is as good as Kawhi Leonard?


Healthy, they were already a playoff level team last year. They didn't need Otto to get them there. Otto is about the future and depth. But with a better established team then rookies of the past, they don't need as much from Otto as they did from Wall and Beal. They can plug him in so he contributes without putting the weight of a team on his shoulder. I expect him to contribute in ways that help them win more games in his first year.

As for the Cavs, adding Jack was an awesome move. Signing Bennett, we will see. Raw talent at this point. But not really a player I think will lead a team to wins. Not year one at least. Bynum ? I'm not convinced he is a net positive. Actually, he is just as likely to be a net negative. Cavs have pieces. Now lets see if they have a team.

The Wizards should have Wall, Beal and Otto in the playoffs this year. That is the baseline goal. Not sure the Cavs will get their young players there just yet. Maybe the year after.
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Re: Coach Witt on 106.7 NOW... 

Post#63 » by hands11 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:58 am

mhd wrote:Are we sure the Knicks are a lock for the playoffs? Amare has serious injury concerns. Chandler looked like a shell of his peak self last year. They traded a better 3 point shooter in Novak for Bargs.


Need to wait and see how the dust settles.

I'm not conceding that NY will be better then Washington just yet.

For us, lots will depend on Wall and Beal. Specially Wall. If he really takes it to another level and can keep up that shooting and 10 FTA a game, that changes everything. Specially if he adds a 3 ball off the dribble like he said he was practicing. And he said he is working on a floater.

Wall can pull a D Rose this year. And if he does, the Wizards could go straight to be elite. They have a pretty good supporting case now.
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Re: Coach Witt on 106.7 NOW... 

Post#64 » by hands11 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:11 am

Kanyewest wrote:
Nivek wrote:
Kanyewest wrote:
I think there are limitations in Vesley's game (and Singleton). I'm sure they practice and puts in the effort, but so does everyone else at this level. BTW making it to the NBA is better than getting a scholarship to some hockey program.


Maybe I communicated that anecdote badly. The point of the story (at least to me) was that people can go from being bad at something to being very good at it by working hard at that skill. I was under the impression that Vesely and Singleton, like most basketball players, were humans and therefore could improve their basketball skills by practicing them, that they could improve their physical condition by working out.

I'm certain that they have not put in the kind of practice and effort that other NBA players have. If they had, the evidence would be apparent in their bodies and in their games.


Perhaps you are right. With Vesley he said he put on 7 pounds of muscle over the course of last season. That's not enough(http://www.truthaboutit.net/2013/06/the ... price.html). With the free throws- I don't know how you can shoot 30% from the line. He shot 62% from the line one season abroad. Coaching can help, Dave Hopla helped Haywood with his free throw shooting but perhaps Vesley should show more initiative - there's an IPhone/Android App from Dave Hopla that he can use https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/iHopla/id434691486 :) .

With Singleton, he needs to work on his shooting ie 3 pointers. I wonder if it is player development that made him give up on 3 pointers or if it is something he just didn't work. He shot 35% in his rookie season but now shoots below 20%. But is it a function of coaching where the coaches should make Singleton keep shooting since he's shooting less than 1/2 the attempts per 36 minutes than his rookie season.


Or maybe its some of this.

http://www.monumentalnetwork.com/videos ... ec17ed0000

He addressed his 3 shooting.

This is the best I have heard Chris sound since he got here.

Sounds like he gets it. Sounds like he is working hard. Sounds like he is hungry and focused.

I think he still can make it in this league.
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Re: Coach Witt on 106.7 NOW... 

Post#65 » by closg00 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:42 pm

Last month, the Pistons hired Maurice Cheeks as head coach. Cheeks and team president Joe Dumars then convinced Rasheed Wallace to join the staff to work exclusively with Drummond and third-year power forward Greg Monroe

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/And ... ond-growth

Drummond and Monroe should be thankful they are not on the Wizards. Afterall, player development is "over blown"

Drummond & Monroe are hard workers AND they are on a team that is making the extra effort to ensure that they will develop and progress.
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Re: Coach Witt on 106.7 NOW... 

Post#66 » by rl25g » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:43 pm

we didn't bring in Sam to help ensure John Wall's development?
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Re: Coach Witt on 106.7 NOW... 

Post#67 » by closg00 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:57 pm

rl25g wrote:we didn't bring in Sam to help ensure John Wall's development?


Flip brought in Sam (Flip coached Sam) after EJ and his assistants were fired. Sam coaches our SL team and is probably our lead assistant players coach.
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Re: Coach Witt on 106.7 NOW... 

Post#68 » by pancakes3 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:13 pm

closg00 wrote:
Last month, the Pistons hired Maurice Cheeks as head coach. Cheeks and team president Joe Dumars then convinced Rasheed Wallace to join the staff to work exclusively with Drummond and third-year power forward Greg Monroe

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/And ... ond-growth

Drummond and Monroe should be thankful they are not on the Wizards. Afterall, player development is "over blown"

Drummond & Monroe are hard workers AND they are on a team that is making the extra effort to ensure that they will develop and progress.


What makes hiring Rasheed Wallace the "extra effort?" and how does it ensure that they will develop and progress?
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Re: Coach Witt on 106.7 NOW... 

Post#69 » by deneem4 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:28 pm

We cant develop big men....guards can self develop because they really dont face anything new at the nba level vs hs ans college....other than pick and rolls everything else is pretty much the same...

Remember wall couldnt get the pick and roll right until nene came
Remember beal cant defend a pick snd roll at all

So yes I blame our development team, they cant develop forwards or centers, nor can they help international players transition into nba mode...

That said the only way to develop these players is give them floor time next to an elite plsyer (like wall)...you cam shoot all the jumpers in practice and learn all the post moves, but in reality every player is not going to defend you the same...every team isnt going to run tht same zone...seraphin cant hook gasol like he can hook ibaka....
The only way to pass that curve is with on floor experience with an elite player...I say elite player because it gives a sersphin 1on1 chance with his defender because the rest of the defense is worrying about wall cutting or beal in the corner...in that moment seraphin csn learn from trial and error, whether he score or not he can later review that tape and see what he did wrong or right...without an elite player he can say oh, well price cut right pass me in the post snd and his defender, stripped me....

I dont question our players work ethic, I question our team as a whole, idea of developing players on a rebuilding squad...nene and okafor should get bulk of the minutes if we arent qualifying for the playoffs, thats where they rest and you start seraphin and vesley...you have nothing to lose, and everything to gain
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Re: Coach Witt on 106.7 NOW... 

Post#70 » by Nivek » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:52 pm

Kanyewest -- I think I shared this story on the boards already, but your comments about Vesely's FT shooting made me think of it. This high school kid who was sorta an intern for me a few years ago is now all graduated from college and working for an NBA team. He read a book I know I've mentioned (The Talent Code) and decided to learn a new skill for the sole purpose of consciously going through the skill development process. His skill -- left handed free throw shooting. (He's a righty.)

Over the space of a couple months spending an hour a day practicing, he went from 30% to 70%. Believe me, this kid doesn't have a tenth of the athletic ability Vesely has.
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Re: Coach Witt on 106.7 NOW... 

Post#71 » by Nivek » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:09 pm

doclinkin wrote:
Nivek wrote:If they want to be good NBA players, they'll put in the work and they'll be good NBA players. If they don't become good NBA players, it's not because "the team" failed to "develop" them. It's because they didn't put in the work.



All of which is true in the NBA, especially where you mention the CBA's restrictions on required practice.

However the Spurs select and send players to Europe in large part because over there teams absolutely do force players to improve and drill fundamentals of team ball etc etc. Chris Copeland would have sucked if he made it to the NBA early in his career. Yes he was motivated, but he had a coach who helped to motivate and drive him. Euro coaches are hardasses. A guy like Ves was developing nicely in a system where he had hardcase coaches who rode him and used him for a few minutes a game in a role in which he was useful. If he wasn't the 6th pick I suspect he would have proven a far better selection if the Wiz could have afforded to draft and stash him.

And while the Spurs do select smart players, they also do improve and develop those players in large part because of their approach and ability to motivate players. Nobody wants to piss off Pop, not only because he will send your ass on a bus to the D-League as many times as it takes, but because he has presence and incisive intelligence and etc etc. Ask Tony Parker about player development. Pop rode him to a lather his first few years in the league.

Leadership does matter. Self motivation is key, sure, and the union contract essentially suggests this be the prime path for player development, but I disagree that this is the sole method of forging a better player. College coaches do it all the time. Euroleague does as well. In the NBA coaches get lazy and scared and fired if they butt heads with stars. I suspect playing under George Karl since day one would have been far better for JaVale than playing for 6 coaches in 6 years. Especially if Karl had the sort of institutional support that Popovich has: 'you do it my way or you will wish you had'.


All good points. If I sound like I'm saying coaching doesn't matter...well...that's not what I mean. :) Having a structured system of teaching is a good idea. I know I'd have one if I was a GM. And good coaches/teachers can provide a spark of motivation along with the technical knowledge transfer.

I look at my son and his music. He outgrew his first teacher and we had to find him other teachers. Those teachers are terrific musicians and excellent teachers. What they give him is valuable. But what they give him would be worthless if he didn't spend a couple hours a day practicing.

Maybe Popovich could have gotten through to guys like Nick Young, Javale McGee or Jordan Crawford. More likely, he wouldn't have picked them in the first place.
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Re: Coach Witt on 106.7 NOW... 

Post#72 » by pancakes3 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:33 pm

Nivek wrote:I look at my son and his music. He outgrew his first teacher and we had to find him other teachers. Those teachers are terrific musicians and excellent teachers. What they give him is valuable. But what they give him would be worthless if he didn't spend a couple hours a day practicing.


Another way to view the teacher analogy is that if you take everyone's favorite teacher, out there somewhere that same teacher is also someone's least favorite teacher. For every teacher that "developed" your talent in whatever subject, there is at least 1 other student that didn't get developed. Should we blame the school system for not giving our students every opportunity to succeed or should we point the finger of blame at the kid who didn't do his homework and didn't study?

deneem4 wrote:We cant develop big men....guards can self develop because they really dont face anything new at the nba level vs hs ans college....other than pick and rolls everything else is pretty much the same...

...

So yes I blame our development team, they cant develop forwards or centers, nor can they help international players transition into nba mode...


This would be confirmation bias on a whole new level. You handwave away the improvements that Wall, Beal, and Webster saw last season as a result of position or national origin. You claim this evidence by citing that our big men can't score because the defenses are different. What about free throw shooting? What about rebounding? What about lifting weights (Vesely)? What about defense? What about Seraphin being patient and not being a black hole on offense (I believe he shoots it something like 70% of the time he touches the ball). What about Singleton who only needs to shoot jumpers and not bang down low?

I can understand why some think developing big men is harder than guards but really it's not. Instead of shooting jumpers, use the Mikan drill. In fact, the Mikan drill is even easier - you don't need a ballboy. It's a culture. Jumpers are sexy. Layups aren't.
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Re: Coach Witt on 106.7 NOW... 

Post#73 » by closg00 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:33 pm

pancakes3 wrote:
closg00 wrote:
Last month, the Pistons hired Maurice Cheeks as head coach. Cheeks and team president Joe Dumars then convinced Rasheed Wallace to join the staff to work exclusively with Drummond and third-year power forward Greg Monroe

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/And ... ond-growth

Drummond and Monroe should be thankful they are not on the Wizards. Afterall, player development is "over blown"

Drummond & Monroe are hard workers AND they are on a team that is making the extra effort to ensure that they will develop and progress.


What makes hiring Rasheed Wallace the "extra effort?" and how does it ensure that they will develop and progress?


Come-on Pancakes, the Pistons hired Wallace specifically to work with Drummond/Monroe. Extra effort.

What did Denver do with McGee post-trade? They paid Hakeem to work with JaVale one-on-one. Extra effort.

What did Indiana do for Roy Hibbert? They paid HOFer Bill Walton to work with Roy one-on-one. Extra effort.

What did the Wizards do for McGee, Vesely, Seraphin, and Singleton? Practices and DNP's.

Would these guys have turned out the same even after specialized coaching? Perhaps, but the organization would have made the extra effort on the development end.
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Re: Coach Witt on 106.7 NOW... 

Post#74 » by pancakes3 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:46 pm

Bynum flat out refused to work with KAJ. Who did Favors, Henson, Vucevic, Pekovic, Asik, Boozer, Noah, Sanders, etc. work with? It's not like the Wizards are a singularly backwards organization in not hiring a dedicated 1-on-1 coach for their big men.

Your parting sentence of - maybe, maybe not - really kills the "ensure" part of the entire process.
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Re: Coach Witt on 106.7 NOW... 

Post#75 » by Nivek » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:01 pm

Back in the Jordan years, the Wizards employed Patrick Ewing as an assistant coach tasked with developing the bigs. All of them saw their biggest improvements after Ewing departed and they began working with noted big man guru Phil Hubbard.

When players go to work with Hakeem or Walton or Abdul-Jabbar, reporters write about it. When they spend time working with Phil Hubbard or Don Zierden or Don Newman (who was the big man coach (along with Popovich) in San Antonio before he came to the Wizards), no one reports it because no one cares.
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Re: Coach Witt on 106.7 NOW... 

Post#76 » by Dat2U » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:07 pm

Nivek wrote:Back in the Jordan years, the Wizards employed Patrick Ewing as an assistant coach tasked with developing the bigs. All of them saw their biggest improvements after Ewing departed and they began working with noted big man guru Phil Hubbard.

When players go to work with Hakeem or Walton or Abdul-Jabbar, reporters write about it. When they spend time working with Phil Hubbard or Don Zierden or Don Newman (who was the big man coach (along with Popovich) in San Antonio before he came to the Wizards), no one reports it because no one cares.


Maybe it was you that mentioned this back in the day, but I remember reading that folks weren't too impressed with Ewing's coaching back then, that he was more interested shooting around with the players and cracking jokes than actually teaching.
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Re: Coach Witt on 106.7 NOW... 

Post#77 » by Nivek » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:30 pm

I've talked a few times about watching Ewing "work" with the bigs. His "work" with them (at least in the handful of times I saw them) consisted mostly of throwing them the ball in the post and then letting the players do whatever move it was they were working on. The players were going half speed (which is not necessarily a bad thing when developing a skill), but were also doing stuff that are big no-nos like bringing the ball down on the catch, traveling when making the move, not finishing the play -- all stuff they were doing in the games, none of it being corrected.

Similar sessions looked a lot different when Hubbard was running them. Sorta makes Doc's point about good coaching being important.

And by the way, guys have to learn how to coach too. That was Ewing's first job, and his real duty (along with Oakley) was hanging out with Jordan. When he went to Orlando, he worked at it and has earned respect around the league as a coach. He's interviewed for a couple head coaching jobs. He'll land one someday.
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Re: Coach Witt on 106.7 NOW... 

Post#78 » by Ruzious » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:47 pm

Fwiw, Ewing also spend a year or so coaching Yao in Houston. During games, he seemed more like a distraction than a coach - spending most of his time laughing with players on the bench. Then again, Yao developed into a dominant player there before injuries destroyed his career, so maybe Ewing was helpful.

Some players will develop no matter where they are, because they're that grounded and focused on being the best they can be. But I think most need to have a structure set up for them and probably need to be monitored closely for at least their first couple of years. And it goes without saying, if they don't work hard, they won't reach their potential. So, when evaluating who to draft, they have to make a determination of what kind of work ethic each prospect has. Perhaps failing in making a good determination has been a big reason as to why many of their picks haven't panned out.
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Re: Coach Witt on 106.7 NOW... 

Post#79 » by closg00 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:50 pm

pancakes3 wrote:Bynum flat out refused to work with KAJ. Who did Favors, Henson, Vucevic, Pekovic, Asik, Boozer, Noah, Sanders, etc. work with? It's not like the Wizards are a singularly backwards organization in not hiring a dedicated 1-on-1 coach for their big men.

Your parting sentence of - maybe, maybe not - really kills the "ensure" part of the entire process.


Well, one can't predict what hasn't occurred yet so you have to qualify with a maybe. You certainly couldn't say that the Wizards did everything that they could for their players when it comes to "development" Could you? This of-course is a separate from what the players could have done for themselves. I agree with Mike Lee, the Wizards don't develop players well.

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