OT - The decline of And1 and streetball culture

[Big Dee Chi-Born]

That's what I remember about it. It was entertaining stuff but seemed like Globe Trotter style entertainment, not actual basketball.

I think the real end came with the realization that these guys couldn't play. Like the hip hop culture the whole scene was smoke and mirrors based off playground legends. A few decades bakc Kareem and Dr. J were playing in the parks against guys good enough to be in the league. And1 was capitalizing on the idea that these undiscovered greats were out there. Today, the guys that really can play make it.

I can guarantee you they can play. The only thing that's not really basketball is the carrying and tricks. But outside of that, most of those guys can kill more than 90% of the people in the world that play basketball.

I think the appeal for And1 died for me when you started having so many guys coming out of the woodwork and becoming legends. The original "cast" of And1 streetball legends had a certain aura about them. When there was a transition to sort of the next gen of streetball legends, they needed to be hyped up more so as to be worthy replacements.

Plus, you never got to see them play in an organized, legit league against legit players. I bet if some of the And1 guys got invited to say the NBA Summer League and dominated, it would have added a lot more legitimacy or at least provide more reason to respect them even more.

I remember they used to televise those Rucker League games on NBATV. That was pretty fun. But a lot of the And1 guys didn't participate. That would have been awesome.

You have to remember that the And1 tour was going on for the majority of the summer. But I hear what you're saying, and that's why they tried to play against each city's best available players.

[Joker]

The era of flashy, guard-driven 1-on-5 streetball culture is over. The next era of streetball culture will emphasize fundamentally sound low-post play.

[Concept Coop]

I went back and watched a few AND1 mixtapes a few months ago. My god, what awful basketball. Hotsauce was schooling some guy in jean shorts, not even trying. Why the hell was that appealing?

[defhalotones]

Rafer Alston is the only player that comes to mind that made the leap from And1 to the NBA. Playground legends don't translate to the pros. I'm looking at you Bassy Telfair.

[karkinos]

And1 just didn't evolve with the times.

qft
this is basically it. the brand refused to change. not just clothing, but the summer league circuit, tricks, dunks, etc. it also didn't help the superstar teams started losing games at places like berry farms

[Dominator83]

Rafer Alston is the only player that comes to mind that made the leap from And1 to the NBA. Playground legends don't translate to the pros. I'm looking at you Bassy Telfair.

Jason kidd says hello. I do agree though he is an exception, not a rule

[Neutral 123]

It really was the marketing. And1 was basically a hip hop themed Harlem Globetrotters. Yes, it makes sense that such a product could survive, but the popularity it hit, was definitely due to great marketing. Looking back, it's not surprising the brand has faded. There was no way to maintain that level of popularity when that was your product.

[mastermixer]

Surprised no one mestion one major, major component!!

What else happend in the early 2000??? THE INTERNET STUPID!!!!

It probably helped it spread the mix tapes initially, but eventually, there was no need to ever go buy tickets to go see a live and 1 show or pay for a video, because you could watch unlimited amateur or professional highlights online.

Personally, I always thought it was uninteresting and boring, so in not surprised everyone else lost interest.

And as a small white kid from the suburbs, those AND 1 t shirts with the and trash talk sayings on them were SO FREAKIBG LAME!!!

[Sixerscan]

Lol at the idea that David Stern making dudes wear collared shirts sometimes took down a multimillion dollar company.

[Sixerscan]

Surprised no one mestion one major, major component!!

What else happend in the early 2000??? THE INTERNET STUPID!!!!

It probably helped it spread the mix tapes initially, but eventually, there was no need to ever go buy tickets to go see a live and 1 show or pay for a video, because you could watch unlimited amateur or professional highlights online.

I assume most of their revenue came from apparel sales, not mixtapes or those summer tours... those were more just a marketing ploy to get people to buy the apparel if anything.

I think you can make the argument that they didn't use the internet PROPERLY, and that's why they failed. But with a more savvy marketing strategy the Internet could have been a real tool for And1.

[DRoseCantStop]

Could say the same thing about EA BIG's NBA Street franchise and Sprite Remix.

Marketing.

[jonny three time]

The era of flashy, guard-driven 1-on-5 streetball culture is over. The next era of streetball culture will emphasize fundamentally sound low-post play.

This is it. Once the majority of NBA teams made use of the "no illegal defense" rule, streetball started to decline. When guys like AI, Marbury, Francis, Vince were all the hype in the NBA, streetball piggy-backed off that style. However, teams realized that you couldn't win playing that way and everyone slowly started to shift towards playing "Spurs style" basketball. Whether it was teams like the Pistons, Pacers of the mid 2000s with their slow-paced, defense first, team play. Or teams like Phoenix, Dallas that played with lots of ball-movement having their success. It pushed teams away from building around 1 or 2 guys that only played one-on-one ball.

Advanced stats also helped GMs realize which players were just stat-padders, and which guys really helped teams win.

Say what you want about Jordan, but having a generation of elite talents try to play the way he did set back fundamental basketball 10 or 20 years. Right now though, the league is in pretty good shape and hopefully kids coming up will pattern theirs games after Lebron so basketball will keep being a team game.

[brownbobcat]

And1 just didn't evolve with the times.

qft
this is basically it. the brand refused to change. not just clothing, but the summer league circuit, tricks, dunks, etc. it also didn't help the superstar teams started losing games at places like berry farms

Yup, it was always a niche brand and those need to trend-setting in order to continue being successful. They couldn't go any further with what got them there, they could've become an Adidas Originals type of brand if they had evolved. It was never really about basketball.

[CallMeKahn]

And1 pretty much was all style and no substance. It was never a legitimate alternative to the NBA.

[duppyy]

And1 just seems like a more thugged out less kid friendly experience of Harlem Globe Trotters.

I loved And1 shoes. Its the only shoes that always fit me. I have wide feet and Nike's always make narrow shoes.

[ceremony816]

I still see And1 stuff around Walmart. Hell of a fall off...

[DuckIII]

I don't know the answer. It was gimmicky and timely at its peak, but at the end of the day its an exhibition and frankly, crappy basketball. I think people just got bored with it.

[Navas]

Was a fad, if anything. I couldn't really get into it because that kind of flashy stuff works only once and you have to know what you're doing half the time.

EDIT: It would just get annoying when people would focus on doing it all the time and not having any end product to show for it.

Say what you want about Jordan, but having a generation of elite talents try to play the way he did set back fundamental basketball 10 or 20 years.

I thought I was the only person who thought this. Jordan was talented, but he kept trying to everything without even trying to share the workload. Way too many people tried to be like Jordan.

[B2Bhoops]

LOL you must be joking. Whether it's Adidas, Nike, And1 or your typical Payless shoe, they all cost a couple dollars to make. A shoe is a shoe. The rest of it goes into marketing. The $100m contract Lebron and D Rose get is paid by you, the consumer.

A shoe is not a shoe but that doesn't mean you can tell which is best simply by looking at the price.

[Ckay]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIJEG_-9MhU[/youtube]