WT- Nate unlikely to be back (WAIT! + instagram pic pg 81!)

[kingkirk]

I'm curious to know what people's idea of 'run the offense' is going to be for the 2nd unit next year. Whether that is Teague or Hinrich, same question mark for either.

Far as i can see, its likely going to be just be Dunleavy running the old Korver sets.

We are going to need far more than that. With combinations of other players including Nazr Mohammed, Taj Gibson, and maybe Deng or Butler still from the starting unit.

At least with Watson and Lucas they could get a high screen and look to score on their own once in a while. Kirk is now poor at this. Teague would do better, but still has trouble finishing, and weakens the shooting.

What 'run' the offense have we had in previous years though?

It will likely be the same, with Kirk playing the point spot, perhaps Jimmy & Taj running in there with a combination of Nazr and Dunleavy.

In the Rose era, have we had a back up point guard who 'runs' the offense? CJ was a combo guard who did the job which Kirk will do the same.

Nate is similar in the fact that he was a score first guy and a combo guard who didn't necessarily run anything outside of his own offense game.

We haven't had a floor general as such on the second unit previously, and i see Kirk being the closet thing that we will have to that in the last few seasons.

I see this 2nd unit as a completely different one we've ever put out there.

It will be about defense (as always), then pushing the ball up the floor and spacing it with the 3 ball from the wings with Taj and Nazr cleaning up down low.

[Captain Thrust]

I'm curious to know what people's idea of 'run the offense' is going to be for the 2nd unit next year. Whether that is Teague or Hinrich, same question mark for either.

Far as i can see, its likely going to be just be Dunleavy running the old Korver sets.

We are going to need far more than that. With combinations of other players including Nazr Mohammed, Taj Gibson, and maybe Deng or Butler still from the starting unit.

At least with Watson and Lucas they could get a high screen and look to score on their own once in a while. Kirk is now poor at this. Teague would do better, but still has trouble finishing, and weakens the shooting.

If that's what you think MDJ's game is and is going to be for us then you have never watched the dude play a single game.

2012-2013
Dunleavy
Shots at the rim
78/121
64.5%
2.4 FTA Per 36

Korver
Shots at the rim
13/22
59.1%
1.2 FTA Per 36

So that's nearly 6 times as many Shots at the rim for Dunleavy Jr. and at a much higher % than Korver as well.
He also gets to the line 2 times as much as Korver.

Dunleavy is a solid penetrator and can definitely finish in the paint.
He is a much more diverse offensive player than KK.
He is not simply going to be running around screens ala Rip or KK.

[mhsiao]

Wait, what? I don't know if I believe this. Thibs doesn't want him back?

Robinson is unlikely to return to the Bulls, due to the reluctance of Tom Thibodeau.

it's been discussed and the general consensus is that that's BS. highly unlikely that nate would not be welcomed back with open arms

I dunno.. Maybe Thibs doesn't want Nate because he wants JL3 the turd instead. Remember that Toronto trade rumor that Thibs really want JL3 the turd back.?

[Rerisen]

2012-2013
Dunleavy
Shots at the rim
78/121

That's about 1.5 attempts a game, hardly a go-to, many are likely from rebounds or transition you won't get in the half court.

Dunleavy is not a creator sorry. If you think he is then you have not watched him play. He can dribble yes, is more versatile than Korver, but not by a lot.

Then again, people thought Marco was going to be a scoring solution as well to fix our missing creator problems. We see how that went. And Dunleavy has less on ball moves than Marco.

Jump shots:

Dunleavy: 81%
Marco: 75%

% of Offense from Iso + PnR (ball handler)

Marco: 32%
Dunleavy: 10%

% of Offense from Spot up + Off Screen

Marco: 37%
Dunleavy: 50%

Dunleavy is more like Korver than Marco was.

If our 2nd unit offense is Mike Dunleavy playmaking, god help us. He'll do far better running the Korver stuff, yes. But we'll need much more for a balanced offense.

[HomoSapien]

Right now our bench rotation will consist of:

Taj
Dunleavy
Hinrich
Nazr

Unless Taj makes some major steps next season, this appears to be our weakest bench yet. It's also extremely unathletic and pretty damn slow.

[Rerisen]

Right now our bench rotation will consist of:

Taj
Dunleavy
Hinrich
Nazr

Unless Taj makes some major steps next season, this appears to be our weakest bench yet. It's also extremely unathletic and pretty damn slow.

Yes, it will likely have Butler or Deng kept in via rotations, and scoring wise looks as weak as 2011, except without having the fall back of the mosnter defense generated from the Asik/Gibson combination. Two of the best impact defenders in the game yearly.

It's a recipe for a big minutes season from Derrick Rose, after just missing a whole year on ACL rehab, and having a whole year of compounding injuries even prior to the ACL.

Reggie and Camp Rose have to be loving that prospect.

Nate can solve this.

[kingkirk]

Nate can solve this.

Assuming Nate is happy with the minimum and that Thibs & the FO see a place for him here, then yes, he solves this.

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

Right now our bench rotation will consist of:

Taj
Dunleavy
Hinrich
Nazr

Unless Taj makes some major steps next season, this appears to be our weakest bench yet. It's also extremely unathletic and pretty damn slow.

Yes, it will likely have Butler or Deng kept in via rotations, and scoring wise looks as weak as 2011, except without having the fall back of the mosnter defense generated from the Asik/Gibson combination. Two of the best impact defenders in the game yearly.

It's a recipe for a big minutes season from Derrick Rose, after just missing a whole year on ACL rehab, and having a whole year of compounding injuries even prior to the ACL.

Reggie and Camp Rose have to be loving that prospect.

Nate can solve this.

I'm predicting Taj will have a bounce-back season.

I think that he was distracted early by the new contract & then the knee injury hit him. I expect to see him focused & healthy this upcoming season.

[kingkirk]

It's a recipe for a big minutes season from Derrick Rose, after just missing a whole year on ACL rehab, and having a whole year of compounding injuries even prior to the ACL.

Reggie and Camp Rose have to be loving that prospect.

This is where Thibs needs to be smart.

He doesn't need to play Rose huge minutes with the starters at times, but perhaps play him 2 minutes less in the 1st and 2 extra in the 2nd Qtr to play with the second unit.

If Kirk can remain healthy, sub in Kirk with 9 minutes elapsed in the first and give Derrick some extra minutes at the 2 with Teague in the second and have a lineup of:

Teague
Rose
Dunleavy
Taj
Nazr

He needs to mix things up and stray away from overhauling a lineup from quarter to quarter and have a great blend of players going through the rotation.

We play Lu, Rose & even Jimmy for 16 minute + stretches. We don't need to do that. Thibs needs to learn.

[Rerisen]

I'm predicting Taj will have a bounce-back season.

That would be interesting. Because you know what else might solve it? Taj Gibson in the starting lineup.

And Carlos Boozer in the 2nd unit, running Pick and Roll with the PnR master Kirk, and just Carlos having generally easier matchups to score on all around.

It wouldn't be great efficient offense, but should generate at least some scoring to keep games close when Rose is out, in combination with some Dunleavy off ball stuff.

It would also get Derrick off into an aggressive mindset early in games, which doesn't mean him shooting every time, but just playmaking with the ball in his hands for everyone, instead of the tired old early attempts to get Boozer started, which often fail and can put us in a hole early.

"But how will we score enough with Taj starting?"

Bulls had a better offense with Taj on the floor than Boozer last year - without Derrick Rose even. But Taj needs to play with scorers, he can't score on his own for the 2nd unit, he is an opportunity scorer.

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

I'm predicting Taj will have a bounce-back season.

That would be interesting. Because you know what else might solve it? Taj Gibson in the starting lineup.

And Carlos Boozer in the 2nd unit, running Pick and Roll with the PnR master Kirk, and just Carlos having generally easier matchups to score on all around.

It wouldn't be great efficient offense, but should generate at least some scoring to keep games close when Rose is out, in combination with some Dunleavy off ball stuff.

It would also get Derrick off into an aggressive mindset early in games, which doesn't mean him shooting every time, but just playmaking with the ball in his hands for everyone, instead of the tired old early attempts to get Boozer started, which often fail and can put us in a hole early.

"But how will we score enough with Taj starting?"

Bulls had a better offense with Taj on the floor than Boozer last year - without Derrick Rose even. But Taj needs to play with scorers, he can't score on his own for the 2nd unit, he is an opportunity scorer.

I'm not sure if Boozer's ego would allow him to be a bench player & if GarPax would be comfortable having a $15 million per year player coming off the bench.

It's an interesting dilemma, though.

[HomoSapien]

Boozer seems like the ultimate team player. He's never complained about anything since being here. I think he'd continue to cheer on his teammates, especially if he's still getting close to the same minutes as always.

[Rerisen]

Boozer seems like the ultimate team player. He's never complained about anything since being here. I think he'd continue to cheer on his teammates, especially if he's still getting close to the same minutes as always.

He'd take far less blame for poor performances in losses, and the pressure would ease on him a lot. It would turn to Gibson and his big new deal.

This could help Boozer play more freely and without that feeling of everyone waiting to pounce on him all the time, despite that he gives such a good impression of shrugging it off, it has to bother anyone.

[EastBayFJ]

...even as a volume shooter still consistently has posted TS% between 53% to 55% for his career

I would have taken him over Dunleavy in a heartbeat- its borderline criminal that we're letting go our 2nd creator at $3M per when we can draft or trade for this need we are so in need of for a system role player like Dunleavy in the salary slot that should have gone to Robinson

you are so out to lunch. first of all, nate robinson is not much more of a "volume shooter" than dunleavy. career per 36:

dunleavy 15.2p 55.4% TS
robinson 17.7p 53.5% TS

Firstly before you call someone as being " out to lunch " check your own reservation

I never called him a volume shooter - I was replying to another poster's assertion of him as such and with an underlying inference that he was inefficient

i'll take the former. and that's without factoring in that dunleavy is a more capable defender

And I will take the latter . I mean...as an offensive creator - a fairly pressing need on this team to lighten the load on our franchise player , how many games has Mike Dunleavy taken by the scruff of the neck and won off his own accord ?

One's an ok system player , one's a true 6th man gunslinger that can win you games when he's on, and who I might add was a pretty nice fit with Hinrich in the 2nd unit last season ( as was Bellinelli )

also, nate was simply not gonna get minutes. dunleavy was critical in that we needed a tested backup wing

This is such a hackneyed crap excuse. There was no reason for Nate not to be playing at least 25mpg

Jimmy would / could spell in at 3 and 3rd wheel back up , until you knew what you had with Snell , could have gone to a 3D vet minimum target of ( in order )

- Matt Barnes
- Omri Casspi
- Mickael Pietrus

The 1, 2, 3 rotation looking like :

Rose 36, Jimmy 34, Nate 24 , Hinrich 16 , Deng , 34

There's your 144 minutes across the 3 positions right there

And them Teague , Snell and say Casspi in reserve

In that core 5 rotation across the 1 to 3 spots we have 2 x genuine creators in Rose and Robinson - an emerging versatile 2 in Jimmy who can drive , catch and shoot and move off the ball and two vet system defenders in Deng and Hinrich - Deng having to be fed his offense and Hinrich really at his most effective as a half way pick and pop player ....a guy whose staple for the last 2 to 3 years is to half turn the corner and dump back a bounce pass for a big man pop shot ( hence the merit in him working in combination with Boozer in pick and pop as outlined by Rerisen and which I was calling last summer anyway )

[ChiCitySPORTS#1]

Theres no way Boozer is coming off the bench. He might not say anything publicly, but thats embarrassing for him. Secondly, Taj is not starter worthy. Boozer has his ups and downs, but he's still faaaar more talented than Taj.

Thirdly Rose and Boozer should be playing together. We complain that Rose doesnt have anyone else to score the ball, it gets even harder when you take out our 2nd option. I just dont see it happening at all and I dont think it should.

[Chi]

Boozer seems like the ultimate team player. He's never complained about anything since being here. I think he'd continue to cheer on his teammates, especially if he's still getting close to the same Dollars as always.

Fixed*

[EastBayFJ]

In fact I wold have tried to acquire Jared Dudley using Taj Gibson ...as in Gibson for Marion who goes to Phx for Dudley and Brown

Forget Dunleavy and sign Robinson and bring in Brand / Malcolm Thomas to fill for Gibson

Butler, Dudley and Snell to fill in behind the eventual loss of Deng

Noah , Boozer and Mirotic next year with a vet big defender and / or draft pick depth

[PrimzyBulls81]

Boozer is a better player than Taj,so there is no doubt that Booz should start.
Rose, Butler, Deng, Boozer , Noah must be our 1st lineup..
Teague, Hinrich , Dunleavy, Gibson, ? Nazr 2nd so far.. Snell, M.Thomas on rotation

[samwana]

Taj should start b/c he works better with Rose and Boozer should come of the bench and play with Kirk, b/c they play better together.

[Chitownbulls]

I would start Taj to raise his value. Someone might actually want him if we started him. Booz going against bench scrubs would be great. He should own them.

If we resign Nate, we just made our terrible scoring bench unit into a decent one.