WT- Nate unlikely to be back (WAIT! + instagram pic pg 81!)

[awaxndau]

Sometimes we will run MDJ off of screens and get offense that way
Sometimes we will run high pick and rolls with Teague and Naz, let Teague either get to the whole or pass it to the open shooter
Sometimes we might play pick and pop with Taj and Kirk
Sometimes we might just give the ball to Taj down in the post and tell him to go to work

Creating offense is not a problem, its making the open shots that we had problems with in the past, that shouldn't be a problem this year. We now have 4 two way plays on our bench. Thats the highest number of guys like that i can ever remember us having

This bench will be very good, you just watch

I don't really understand the confidence in Teague and Nazr, both were downright terrible last season for the most part and should be 3rd string at best.

Kirk/Taj are not consistent scorers, if you are a Bulls fan you should know this by now.

Adding Nate would add some of the scoring firepower/penetration ability/athleticism we are currently lacking.

Teague played like a scared rookie last year, being that he was a scared rookie i wasnt too surprised. He just needed confidence, you can see it in his play from yesterday and i believe it will carry over to the regular season
When you don't have shooting, you need somebody to score on their own. Thats the only way you're going to get points. Last year,our bench really lacked shooting, thats not the case this year
Teague is better at penetrating that Nate,hes a better passer then Nate,hes just as athletic than Nate and is a waaaaayyy better defensive player than Nate
The role of a point guard is to create offense for others, not just for themselves.

You're not asking teague to score, you're asking teague to get shots for those who cant create for themselves

Shooting is scoring, Kirk and Taj can do that. You're not asking them to be MJ off the bench, you just need them to make open shots, which they can and have proven that over their careers

I could live without Naz but his role will be to set screens and play defense, i think he can do that. He wont be ask to do much else

[awaxndau]

Team offense> iso offense

Not when it matters.

Iso ball only works when

1)The guy doing the iso is a very consistent lethal scorer

2)the guy doing the Iso has an extreme mismatch on him which will lead to easy baskets

3)the guy doing the iso is a great passer and scorer which allows everybody on the court to be a threat of scoring

there's only a handful of guys that fit the criteria for options 1 and 3. Nate Robinson isnt on of them. Option 2 can happen depending on the match up but that's not something you want to rely on at the end of games, every game

[YourRoseness]

Team offense> iso offense

Not when it matters.

Iso ball only works when

1)The guy doing the iso is a very consistent lethal scorer

2)the guy doing the Iso has an extreme mismatch on him which will lead to easy baskets

3)the guy doing the iso is a great passer and scorer which allows everybody on the court to be a threat of scoring

there's only a handful of guys that fit the criteria for options 1 and 3. Nate Robinson isnt on of them. Option 2 can happen depending on the match up but that's not something you want to rely on at the end of games, every game

I think the ultimate test of this will be Brooklyn. Brooklyn should be an unreal iso offensive team with the shooters they have, but how good will their team offense be?

[Polynice4Pippen]

Team offense> iso offense

Not when it matters.

Also, the issue is being able to excel at team offense AND iso offense at the end of games. You're exactly right, we can't just assume we'll be able to get into all of our sets and run our offense in the final minutes of a playoff game against Miami like we could against the Bucks in December. We need that versatility to beat teams via diagramed offense or total improvisation. Nate helps us get closer to achieving that balance and versatility. San Antonio, Miami, Boston in the Big 3 era, the championship Lakers, they all had effective half court team offenses, but also had improv guys who could go out and just make a play on their own when the offense broke down and the star couldn't get the ball. Being one dimensional just doesn't get it done.

[Red Larrivee]

There are only like 5 guys in the whole league who can be effective "when it matters" in iso situations so team offense is the way to go in a lot of cases.

That's not true. There are a bunch of players who can score respectably in isolation situations. Team offense does not work in the playoffs because everyone has ample time to scout each and every play that you have. It works in the regular season because some teams are coming off back-to-backs, or 3 games in 4 nights.

Yes, you need to be able to execute team offense. But when the game shrinks, individual offense wins games.

[Jvaughn]

When you don't have shooting, you need somebody to score on their own. Thats the only way you're going to get points. Last year,our bench really lacked shooting, thats not the case this year.

How is that not the case this year? Team has 1 and 1/2 capable proven shooters on the team. You have Dunleavy and Kirk for the second half of the year. In your scenario we are without Nate, so in reality we lost two shooters ((Marco and Nate) while adding Dunleavy, but somehow we fixed our shooting issues?

[awaxndau]

Not when it matters.

Iso ball only works when

1)The guy doing the iso is a very consistent lethal scorer

2)the guy doing the Iso has an extreme mismatch on him which will lead to easy baskets

3)the guy doing the iso is a great passer and scorer which allows everybody on the court to be a threat of scoring

there's only a handful of guys that fit the criteria for options 1 and 3. Nate Robinson isnt on of them. Option 2 can happen depending on the match up but that's not something you want to rely on at the end of games, every game

I think the ultimate test of this will be Brooklyn. Brooklyn should be an unreal iso offensive team with the shooters they have, but how good will their team offense be?

im interested to see that too. You have 5 guys who are use to having the ball in their hands at the end of games. Now you re going to ask Paul pierce and Joe Johnson to be sit in the corner and shoot when i pass you the play type players
Thats a big adjustment to your ego you have to make

[awaxndau]

There are only like 5 guys in the whole league who can be effective "when it matters" in iso situations so team offense is the way to go in a lot of cases.

That's not true. There are a bunch of players who can score respectably in isolation situations. Team offense does not work in the playoffs because everyone has ample time to scout each and every play that you have. It works in the regular season because some teams are coming off back-to-backs, or 3 games in 4 nights.

Yes, you need to be able to execute team offense. But when the game shrinks, individual offense wins games.

But we have that though in Rose, Nobody else should have the ball in their hands at the end of games

[Red Larrivee]

But we have that though in Rose, Nobody else should have the ball in their hands at the end of games

You can't regulate isolation duties to one player only. That's the problem. If you're doing that, then it's easy as hell to defend.

[kdapiton]

But we have that though in Rose, Nobody else should have the ball in their hands at the end of games

Wait, isn't that the complaint of a lot of us here because it makes us easier to defend and puts too much load on Rose?

[awaxndau]

When you don't have shooting, you need somebody to score on their own. Thats the only way you're going to get points. Last year,our bench really lacked shooting, thats not the case this year.

How is that not the case this year? Team has 1 and 1/2 capable proven shooters on the team. You have Dunleavy and Kirk for the second half of the year. In your scenario we are without Nate, so in reality we lost two shooters ((Marco and Nate) while adding Dunleavy, but somehow we fixed our shooting issues?

Last year shooters

-Marco
-Nate
-Kirk
-Butler
-Deng

This years shooters

-Kirk
-MDJ
-Butler
-Snell
-Deng

the problem with last year is, depending on the health of the team, that was 4 starters. So your bench had no shooting. When Kirk was healthy and Nate came off the bench he became a scorer, not a shooting so the spacing of the floor was still limited.
This year all of our shooting will be coming off the bench for the most part. And since either Kirk or Nate had the ball in their hands, they weren't allowed to catch and shoot, the had to create offense for others. Or in Nates case, create it for himself

With Rose and Teague handling the PG roles, your going to have 2, and sometimes 3 shooters on the floor at all times next year. That wasn't the case last year

[awaxndau]

But we have that though in Rose, Nobody else should have the ball in their hands at the end of games

You can't regulate isolation duties to one player only. That's the problem. If you're doing that, then it's easy as hell to defend.

Worked just fine for the heat last year

[RedBulls23]

But we have that though in Rose, Nobody else should have the ball in their hands at the end of games

You can't regulate isolation duties to one player only. That's the problem. If you're doing that, then it's easy as hell to defend.

Worked just fine for the heat last year

No it didn't because Lebron wasn't the sole person handling the ball in late game situations. Wade took turns as well and they played Lebron off the ball.

[Red Larrivee]

Worked just fine for the heat last year

They had two players. LeBron hasn't won a championship as the sole offensive playmaker. Neither has Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan.

[awaxndau]

You can't regulate isolation duties to one player only. That's the problem. If you're doing that, then it's easy as hell to defend.

Worked just fine for the heat last year

No it didn't because Lebron wasn't the sole person handling the ball in late game situations. Wade took turns as well and they played Lebron off the ball.

Maybe i saw a different game because i saw James dominate the ball in the last 2 to 3 minutes of every game, creating offense for him and others, including Wade

I saw the same thing with Tony Parker on the other side of the court

At the end of the game there's only one ball, and i dont believe anyone can stick D-rose off the dribble one on one with no help. Not even the Great Lebron

[awaxndau]

Worked just fine for the heat last year

They had two players. LeBron hasn't won a championship as the sole offensive playmaker. Neither has Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan.

Thats a totally different statement than what you said earlier.
Does Rose need somebody else during the course of a games to step up and score with Rose? yes

Does Rose need somebody else to help him close out games in the last 2 minutes? no

[RedBulls23]

Worked just fine for the heat last year

No it didn't because Lebron wasn't the sole person handling the ball in late game situations. Wade took turns as well and they played Lebron off the ball.

Maybe i saw a different game because i saw James dominate the ball in the last 2 to 3 minutes of every game, creating offense for him and others, including Wade

I saw the same thing with Tony Parker on the other side of the court

At the end of the game there's only one ball, and i dont believe anyone can stick D-rose off the dribble one on one with no help. Not even the Great Lebron

You definitely did watch a different game, because while Lebron did handle the Ball, he wasn't the only person doing it for the Heat. Wade helped. And Ginobli did the same for the Spurs.

[Jvaughn]

When you don't have shooting, you need somebody to score on their own. Thats the only way you're going to get points. Last year,our bench really lacked shooting, thats not the case this year.

How is that not the case this year? Team has 1 and 1/2 capable proven shooters on the team. You have Dunleavy and Kirk for the second half of the year. In your scenario we are without Nate, so in reality we lost two shooters ((Marco and Nate) while adding Dunleavy, but somehow we fixed our shooting issues?

Last year shooters

-Marco
-Nate
-Kirk
-Butler
-Deng

Deng and Butler are definitely not shooters. They are two players capable of making threes, but that doesn't make them shooters anymore than it makes Rose one. Hell, up until around midseason, shooting was still one of Butler's biggest weaknesses.

This years shooters

-Kirk
-MDJ
-Butler
-Snell
-Deng

the problem with last year is, depending on the health of the team, that was 4 starters. So your bench had no shooting. When Kirk was healthy and Nate came off the bench he became a scorer, not a shooting so the spacing of the floor was still limited.
This year all of our shooting will be coming off the bench for the most part. And since either Kirk or Nate had the ball in their hands, they weren't allowed to catch and shoot, the had to create offense for others. Or in Nates case, create it for himself

With Rose and Teague handling the PG roles, your going to have 2, and sometimes 3 shooters on the floor at all times next year. That wasn't the case last year

I was talking about proven NBA shooters. Snell is a rookie therefore he doesn't fall under that classification. That leaves us with MDJ and end of the season Kirk. I'm glad the FO is making an attempt to give Rose some more shooting, but we're still far behind. We're still a defensive team sprinkled with some offensively capable players.

And I'm not quite prepared to crown Teague an NBA capable player yet. He has still yet to show that he can be anythingmore than mmediocre yet. I see no reason to put the faith of being able to effectively run an offense. Team still only has one creator to produce efficient offense.

[Polynice4Pippen]

Worked just fine for the heat last year

They had two players. LeBron hasn't won a championship as the sole offensive playmaker. Neither has Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan.

Thats a totally different statement than what you said earlier.
Does Rose need somebody else during the course of a games to step up and score with Rose? yes

Does Rose need somebody else to help him close out games in the last 2 minutes? no

Derrick needs another scoring THREAT to help him close out games. Otherwise the defense can just load up on him. Just look at Kevin Durant in the 2012 postseason and look at Durant in the 2013 playoffs with no Harden or Westbrook. KD wasn't even remotely close to being the same player in the clutch this postseason.

[awaxndau]

Deng and Butler are definitely not shooters. They are two players capable of making threes, but that doesn't make them shooters anymore than it makes Rose one. Hell, up until around midseason, shooting was still one of Butler's biggest weaknesses.

You dont need a team full of stephen curry's in order to consider a shooter. Butler and Deng have shown they can Hit a open 3, which cause you as a defender to hesitate on the help while Rose is driving to the lane. Thats all D-rose needs

I was talking about proven NBA shooters. Snell is a rookie therefore he doesn't fall under that classification. That leaves us with MDJ and end of the season Kirk. I'm glad the FO is making an attempt to give Rose some more shooting, but we're still far behind. We're still a defensive team sprinkled with some offensively capable players.

And I'm not quite prepared to crown Teague an NBA capable player yet. He has still yet to show that he can be anythingmore than mmediocre yet. I see no reason to put the faith of being able to effectively run an offense. Team still only has one creator to produce efficient offense.

Until the season starts, neither of us will know how good Teague will be during the season or if Snell can hit an open 3 from the wing. What i can tell you is they both have the potential
Teague has the potential to get in the lane at will and create shots for others and Snell has the potential to sit in the corner and force his man to stay on him while Rose/Teague drives to the hole, They both have the NBA skill to do that. Can they do it? That's why they play the game

We're still a defensive team sprinkled with better offensively capable players. That's not a bad thing