OT - The decline of And1 and streetball culture

[tha_rock220]

The fact that you think Drake is one of the best hip-hop artists is a testament to how fake it has become - a rich kid who grew up on a television show is about as far away from hip-hop as you can get.

I'm not a Drake fan, but anyone who thinks the poverty level of your upbringing is correlated to the quality of your music is an idiot.

Drake is actually a talented rapper but, like fifty cent, he decided to start making lots and lots of love songs.

The rappers are still good, but the music people want now sucks....well in my opinion at least.

[lilojmayo]

The And1 movement caused a generation of kids, to build their game off of flash no substance. kids idn't care that were throwing up bricks , shooting 50% FT, lacked any concept of moving without the ball. All that matter to me was handles, crossovers and trying to dunk. Like many youngings during that time. It didn't help that Allen Iverson was arguably the most popular player in the Bigs leagues at the time.

To me what killed the And1 movement , outside of the fact that people just got bored/tried of it, was when they took the game out of the streets and into the arenas. It just didn't have the same vibe to it. I understand it wass a business decision to hold more people in the venues for more money.

Another thing that killed the movement was how they started keeping score, and actually wanted to " win " the game.

All in All taking the game out of the streets , and into the arenas was a critical mistake.

[Neutral 123]

A lot of interesting thoughts in this thread. I'd love to actually hear from those who were a part of this business offer their take.

[countrybama24]

I'm gonna go with...

1. Sale to American Sporting Goods (2005) - Destroyed the company's "culture" and clever marketing strategies
2. YouTube (est. 2005) - Breaking it's competitive advantage in distribution of "video mixtapes" and diminishing the novel nature of streetball basketball videos

[Kobe8Forever]

I think if Iverson or some other star of associated with the streetball culture could have won some titles, streetball culture would not have died as quick as it did. Also, most streetball stars that made the NBA had short careers and generally sucked. All of this resulted in streetball being considered a second rate side show of basketball.

[karkinos]

You just proved rap is no longer rap.

Kanye is a great producer but horrible MC. The fact that you think Drake is one of the best hip-hop artists is a testament to how fake it has become - a rich kid who grew up on a television show is about as far away from hip-hop as you can get.

lol u think rap and hip hop is about being poor
ok

[SacTownKings4Life]

And1's marketing was based on Hip Hop and streetball, tied together. In a way, they did go hand and hand considering both came from the "ghetto" neighborhoods. Hip Hop grew exponentially in the late 90s, early 2000s and the NBA entered an era of flashy basketball players like Iverson, Jason Williams, Vince Carter, Francis, ect. Hence why And1 blew up. Eventually NBA implemented the dress code and Hip Hop had lost some of its popularity edge due to other genres. Also, flashy players became the norm since the sport has become so athletic. Behind the back passes and monster dunks are expected instead of wished for.

Thats just my opinion.

Ya know what? I never really thought about it, but in hindsight the dress code did kinda put a damper on the whole hip hop/NBA crossover culture.

[Gus McCrae]

confirmed to being someone who knows nothing of the genre

Hip Hop at the moment is at its strongest in terms of quality and diversity

lmao hip-hop today is at its worst ever. You are probably young so I will forgive you for saying that.

If look at how hip-hop evolved in say just the 6 year period between 1992-1998 it is amazing. The way it progressed, and all the different artists that came out at that time, in all different genres with so many different styles is incredible in retrospect. Look at hip-hop in just the past 6 years and very little has changed.

The fact that today's hip-hop relies on 40 year old versions of Jay-Z and Eminem to "save hip-hop" is a testament to how bad it is today and how good it was in the '90s. The "heavy-hitters" of today can't hold a flame to those of the 90's.

Outkast, Nas, Biggie, Pac, Mos Def, Eminem, Dre, The Pharcyde, The Wu & a million other stars >>>>>>>>>>>>>Drake, Macklemore, J. Cole, Wale, Mac Miller, Kendrick (just jacks Andre 3000's style/flow but is still very solid), Lil' Wayne, A$AP etc.

Lauryn Hill & Missy Elliot are better MC's that almost every major rapper today.

Edit: Proof hip-hop and rap today is atrocious? Psy's Gangnam Style being #1 on Billboard Hot 100 Rap.

not trying to derail this thread but again you seem like one of those "real hip hop " youtube commentators that barely even listen to modern rap and base most things towards the radio.

From new genres like cloud rap to revised industrial rap (the rise of death crips, yeezus, and etc.)

Born sinner was a great album from Cole and his mixtapes were great
pre-MMG wale was great (mixtape about nothing is still one of the best rap mixtapes ever) and even his MMG **** is still dope.
GKMC is a great album
Drake is probably one of the most versatile dudes in terms of sound (with NWTS is bringing a more post-dubsteb sound with song like the motion) and if you like rnb and rap he is great for you.
Mac Miller just released a great album
With certainty I can guess you have never actually listened to or actually know most of these artists.

Yeezus is probably my favourite rap album of the year just because how it mixes so many different genres (industrial, electronic, dancehall, and etc.). These are the type of rap albums being made today and thats what makes it so different from the 90s and early 2000s, the constant evolution and now intermingling with the other music genres.

Again I enjoy 90s boom bap and jazz rap as much as the next but you can be a fan of rap not see the great amount of diversity in today's music scene.

Also Jay has just released another boring, uninspired album and Eminem hasn't made a decent album since 2009 and a good one since 2002. Both are only portrayed as saviours by people who do not follow the actual hip hop scene.

And people who claim rap needs "saviours" are people who confirmed for not following the scene.

Give me ready to die, life after death, illmatic, 36 chambers, wu tang forever,reasonable doubt, ironman, tikal, cuban linx, all eyez on me, aquemini, miseducation of lauryn hill , doggystyle, lethal injection, streetz is a mutha, kuruption over anything in the last 10 years. I do like born sinner but its nowhere near those albums. Yeezus is complete garbage. Only album Id consider a classic on par with the 90s stuff is MAAd City and maybe Carter 2.

[DMVleGeND]

This is nonsense. It has nothing to do with rise of hipster nothing.

Popular players stopped doing the tapes. Started doing their own thing., the moves became repetitive... We had seem them all. So it just became less interesting and then LeBron came around. People who say LeBron didn't embrace and1 aren't paying attention, and1 Is actually his generation and was popular when he was in high school, but LeBron in the league, among other players had the moves of those and1 players but on the big stage.

It just got stale, trust me. No hipster movement stopped it. It was less interesting. There were a lot of rifts between the popular guys like hot sauce who got his own tour and a bunch of nonsense. Players got old and tired.. And it ended.

THIS. The type of clothing people wear isn't what caused And1 to decline - it's that it got boring after years and streetballers started branching off to other companies. In '07, the Ball4Real Tour began, which guys like Air Up There, Spyda, 50, 1/2 Man Half Amazing etc left, and that group disbanded a yr later. They have a tour now called BallUp, which has a lot of former And1 players, but not too many people care about it. The novelty has just worn off.

[Manhattan Project]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM06UzJXbAo&feature=player_embedded#at=53[/youtube]

[TankCommander]

not trying to derail this thread but again you seem like one of those "real hip hop " youtube commentators that barely even listen to modern rap and base most things towards the radio.

From new genres like cloud rap to revised industrial rap (the rise of death crips, yeezus, and etc.)

Born sinner was a great album from Cole and his mixtapes were great
pre-MMG wale was great (mixtape about nothing is still one of the best rap mixtapes ever) and even his MMG **** is still dope.
GKMC is a great album
Drake is probably one of the most versatile dudes in terms of sound (with NWTS is bringing a more post-dubsteb sound with song like the motion) and if you like rnb and rap he is great for you.
Mac Miller just released a great album
With certainty I can guess you have never actually listened to or actually know most of these artists.

Yeezus is probably my favourite rap album of the year just because how it mixes so many different genres (industrial, electronic, dancehall, and etc.). These are the type of rap albums being made today and thats what makes it so different from the 90s and early 2000s, the constant evolution and now intermingling with the other music genres.

Again I enjoy 90s boom bap and jazz rap as much as the next but you can be a fan of rap not see the great amount of diversity in today's music scene.

Also Jay has just released another boring, uninspired album and Eminem hasn't made a decent album since 2009 and a good one since 2002. Both are only portrayed as saviours by people who do not follow the actual hip hop scene.

And people who claim rap needs "saviours" are people who confirmed for not following the scene.

You just proved rap is no longer rap.

Kanye is a great producer but horrible MC. The fact that you think Drake is one of the best hip-hop artists is a testament to how fake it has become - a rich kid who grew up on a television show is about as far away from hip-hop as you can get.

But like others have said, the decline of AND1 culture is gone because of the tie between basketball and hip-hop has died. Guys like KD, Westbrook, Amare, Bron, Wade etc all dress like hipsters now which killed it.

A prime AI would make every single hipster superstar in today's game his bi*ch

I bet you didn't even actually listen to any of this music and base this on assumptions and stereotypes

I am done with this conversation. You are obviously a stuck in the 90s cat and someone who doesn't follow modern rap.

[knowler]

I think it can be similar case to decline of SDC. While it was rare and you could watch the best dunkers like few times a year everybody wanted to see it. Than youtube came and it turned out that there's a great deal of outstanding dunkers outside the NBA. Suddenly you had a chance of seeing almost every single dunk in tens of different viriations during an hour or two.

The same with And1. Just one hour on youtube and you know all the best tricks, dunks and players from the tour. And if you see something on and on it's no longer that attractive and appealing. In fact, And1 was all about it, so that's why it worn out. It's like watching rookies-sophmores game - the first 2 min of constant ally-ups may be fun, but after the other 2 it gets irritating.

Plus the only player who made it to the NBA was Alston, I guess. When the big stars like Hot Souce couldn't find a job as a 12th player in a weak team, it certainly doesn't help.

[knowler]

When it comes to hip hop I think that it's more about nostalgia than the actual quality of music. I remember that few year ago people kept on complaining that the good music had gone. Now the same people say that 2007/2008 was still decent while now there's only some garbage. Just wait another few years and you''ll hear how today's rappers were the last ones real and skilled.

[Sofia]

Spider-Man hit the courts so they all went home.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7D-67xqwYE[/youtube]