The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (Day 30)

[InsideOut]

Why would BJ be worth 5/50 when no other team has even made him an offer?

A good player doesn't need 4yrs worth of excuses. A good player is a good player no matter who his coach is or who else plays on his teams. The Bucks need a PG that makes others better and not a PG that needs others to make him better. If a player needs the right coach running the right system and surrounded by great players to be good then that is not a player you lock up long term and consider a core piece.

So we are just assuming now?

How do you know Jennings has not gotten an offer? Is there a source that states this? I would like to see it if there is because I have not seen it.

Most teams with a PG need to not have cap room to make him an offer. The only option teams have was to work a S&T.

Do you have a source that says he was offered something? I do know the Bucks haven't had to match any offers yet. So why didn't a team with cap space and in need of a PG give BJ an offer? Why aren't there teams all over us trying to work a sign a trade for BJ? The fact is teams don't want him and don't feel he is worth a mayor long term deal.

My guess is teams don't want to spend much on a 5th year PG that is full of excuses and needs the stars to align just right for him to succeed. If some team offers him a big deal then I'll stand corrected.

[Bucksmaniac]

We offered Jennings a 4yr 40m extension in October and in May, so how does that mean Teague at 4/32 is who we wanted?

The problem is that Jennings wants more than 4/40.

And then I go back to the "Who cares what he wants, the market has dictated his value"

Evans got 4yrs 48m so 12 per. Jennings is worse then Evans.
Ellis got 3yrs 30m so 10 per. Jennings is as good as Ellis but younger.
Teague got 4yrs 32m so 8 per. Who we knew would be matched to finalize the Jennings market. This is his ballpark.

Jennings to me is worth 9.5m a year on average, if he wants more, then sign the QO and lets be done with it. No way the Bucks will offer more then 11m per, and I am fine with that, see as I like Jennings more then Ellis, and Ellis got 10m per.

Standards are high at the point guard position, and it is arguable Jennings is as good as Monta. BTW, neither are very good, neither deserve 10 million a year.

[mlloyd10]

I think Nebula and Myself would strongly agree to disagree with the rest of this board in regards to Jennings.

I also know that we are all willing to eat our crow when the time comes.

The main things with Jennings is A. Not consistent and B. Hasn't improved since his been in the league. If he signs his QO and puts up 17/7/2 on 45/40/85, I wouldnt have a problem with giving him 8-10/yr, but he just hasn't proved to be worth it.

[LUKE23]

We know he hasn't got an offer because he hasn't signed an offer sheet. Even if he did get an offer, until it's on paper, how is it relevant when we're talking about a RFA?

[mlloyd10]

We offered Jennings a 4yr 40m extension in October and in May, so how does that mean Teague at 4/32 is who we wanted?

The problem is that Jennings wants more than 4/40.

And then I go back to the "Who cares what he wants, the market has dictated his value"

Evans got 4yrs 48m so 12 per. Jennings is worse then Evans.
Ellis got 3yrs 30m so 10 per. Jennings is as good as Ellis but younger.
Teague got 4yrs 32m so 8 per. Who we knew would be matched to finalize the Jennings market. This is his ballpark.

Jennings to me is worth 9.5m a year on average, if he wants more, then sign the QO and lets be done with it. No way the Bucks will offer more then 11m per, and I am fine with that, see as I like Jennings more then Ellis, and Ellis got 10m per.

FYI...Ellis got 3/25

http://www.hoopsworld.com/dallas-mavericks-team-salary

[Lippo]

I think Nebula and Myself would strongly agree to disagree with the rest of this board in regards to Jennings.

I also know that we are all willing to eat our crow when the time comes.

I agree, I like Jennings and would have no problem giving him 5/45m
We have to do something to bring up his morale again though, like trade for DD.

[msiris]

It's not even that. The guy is a RFA. You lowball the hell out of him if he doesn't have any other offers.

This is common sense. I think its funny when people use market price. He has no market price, since no one has offered him anything. What does that tell you about his value? I think the other teams knows he wants too much money. People say pay him $9.5 million, but he already turned down $10. Why would he go for less?

[InsideOut]

We offered Jennings a 4yr 40m extension in October and in May, so how does that mean Teague at 4/32 is who we wanted?

The problem is that Jennings wants more than 4/40.

And then I go back to the "Who cares what he wants, the market has dictated his value"

That is correct...you are seeing what the market value is for BJ...it isn't much. If it was someone would have paid him. Just because other guys signed for a certain amount it doesn't show what BJ is worth. You are only worth what you can get someone to pay you.

[TchenBucks]

Do you have a source that says he was offered something? .

I cannot find the exact link anymore, but on May 29th according to the link below, it all of a sudden leaked that the bucks were interested in keeping Monta over Brandon.

http://www.hoopsrumors.com/brandon-jennings/page/2/

Leading up to that point it was known we had a 4yr 40m deal on the table, and it was also known that we wanted Brandon. Was also stated we met with him several times both before FA, and after FA started.

Brandon likely said no, that he feels he is worth more, so we turned our attention to Monta.

Each player has a price, the Bucks clearly had a higher price on Monta, but with Jennings being younger, preferred to keep him.

[mlloyd10]

If I had to, I would give him the same exact contract that they gave Ilyasova

[TchenBucks]

Luke,

Getting an offer does not mean you are going to sign the offer.

[Nebula1]

Man, you're really sucking the teet on this one. How has his character been fine? He has talked about his plans about his free agency before the season was over. He doesn't ever want to take the blame when things go wrong but wants to be treated like "the man" he whines and lets his play drop drastically if he doesn't make an all star game. He whines on the bench when the coach makes a decision to take him out. Those are all character issues. No, he hasn't done anything to get himself into trouble outside of the court, but man, you cannot tell me he doesn't have some character flaws.

I don't want to go through each blip of his life, but he's done plenty of "good character" things for the organization. He's always repped the franchise and been a good citizen. I like that he said the Bucks could beat Miami.

Sure he was disappointed about the AS selection. That's been discussed. And yes he was probably pissed when the Bucks traded for JJ and were fronting a lame duck coach.

He's played for a moronic franchise and for the most part has been a good soldier. He doesn't miss games. He's always in shape. He's a good teammate. blah, blah, blah.

I think he's a young human. He definitely considers himself a star and that's both an asset and a detriment, just like it is for all stars in the League outside Tim Duncan. It's not necessarily a flaw. However, I acknowledge he needs to improve his production efficiency and then perhaps he'll get selected as an All Star and fulfill a dream.

[msiris]

I think Nebula and Myself would strongly agree to disagree with the rest of this board in regards to Jennings.

I also know that we are all willing to eat our crow when the time comes.

I agree, I like Jennings and would have no problem giving him 5/45m
We have to do something to bring up his morale again though, like trade for DD.

Why would he take $9 when he turned down $10? I would give him 4/36, but why bother, since he already turned down $10.

[Chapter29]

Jennings is not a talented as Ellis BTW. He may be brighter but that remains to be seen.

[TchenBucks]

If I had to, I would give him the same exact contract that they gave Ilyasova

I would love that, and I think Jennings is warming up to the fact he over valued himself.

Also, every source stills states it was 3yrs 30m, even ESPN. Hoopsworld has him just under 25m, but they are also making an estimate yet. Will know the exact price when the season starts.

[InsideOut]

Do you have a source that says he was offered something? .

I cannot find the exact link anymore, but on May 29th according to the link below, it all of a sudden leaked that the bucks were interested in keeping Monta over Brandon.

http://www.hoopsrumors.com/brandon-jennings/page/2/

Leading up to that point it was known we had a 4yr 40m deal on the table, and it was also known that we wanted Brandon. Was also stated we met with him several times both before FA, and after FA started.

Brandon likely said no, that he feels he is worth more, so we turned our attention to Monta.

Each player has a price, the Bucks clearly had a higher price on Monta, but with Jennings being younger, preferred to keep him.

Yes, we all know he got an offer from the bucks many months ago. We are taking about getting an offer from another team once the FA season began. No teams want to pay him because they feel he isn't worth it. If they did they would make him an offer and the Bucks would get a chance to match.

[paulpressey25]

Dumbest thing in the world to bid against yourselves for a player nobody else wants.

There is a reason that Pek, Ramon Sessions, Jennings, Gerald Henderson etc have their restricted free agencies stall out a long time.

They aren't guys that league sees as needle movers, yet they are guys who want lots of money.

In years past, RFA's like Hibbert, Eric Gordon, Batum, etc. all had teams jockeying for positioning to sign them right away on July 1st.

[giraldo5]

I just think the tune will change quickly once Jennings gets him %s up. People attack his character, but it's not really based on anything. Swag and so forth.

What about his play post All-Star selections? It's impossible to defend that as just a fluke and not an indictment on his character.

Young dude who really wants to be an All Star and was extremely disappointed. He's still learning to be a pro, but he wants the shine too and was obviously discouraged to the point it affected his play. He'll grow out of that eventually.

I think it's a indictment on his character how badly he wants to be an All Star. He played amazingly well in his pursuit of the designation so if you're going to discredit him by playing poorly post-selection, then you should credit his play prior.

How badly he wants individual recognition was never in question. Two years running he has given up on his teammates because he didn't get an honor that he really didn't deserve.

[LUKE23]

Luke,

Getting an offer does not mean you are going to sign the offer.

Umm, if it's a good offer, yes it does.

[TchenBucks]

Yes, we all know he got an offer from the bucks many months ago. We are taking about getting an offer from another team once the FA season began. No teams want to pay him because they feel he isn't worth it. If they did they would make him an offer and the Bucks would get a chance to match.

Again, you have to have cap space in order to sign someone. I am trying to find the link with which teams have the most cap space currently that I saw a few days ago, but none had a glaring need at PG.

No team with cap has a glaring need at PG, thus no real offers.

This does not mean you further short change and piss Jennings off.

You do what we have been stated as doing. Look into Sign and Trade's to pull his value from other teams, then you have a fair ball park to play in.

Saying you would just low ball him to no ends is exactly what you do not do, because it not only would piss Jennings off, but would make situations with every single player we deal with in the future a very tough situation.