The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (Day 30)

[JimmyTheKid]

With that being said, I think a lot of the long time posters see a person with a few posts and automatically think they're ignorant, don't have a clue, or can't relate. Just look at the comments made to new posters a lot of the time around here. Some of them definitely deserve to be flamed but some of them are just flamed because they disagree with a poster and he uses his post number against him/her. It's like post number profiling

So true. Its annoying and ridiculous when a "regular" bashes a newcomer with "ballboy this and ballboy that." Some people read (or "stalk") this forum before posting. Others are just now stumbling upon it. Hell, I have anti-blog/online forum friends that make fun of me for contributing here. But they truly know their basketball and would be fantastic additions. They just can't stand the blog dynamic. Which I get as well. I'm just a junkie and can't turn away.

[giraldo5]

What was the poster's name last yr who kept saying Be Milwaukee and was so cheery before being waived. He had to be an employee correct?

musky, head on down to the BC to catch a Bucks game but it's cold outside so head on over to Bucks.com and pick up a Bucks beanie for only $10!

Bingo. Ahh I miss musky

[emunney]

The 5 years younger version of me was way more homerific. I even thought Damon Jones was the man. Now I'm pretty much group norm here.

If you are new to this board the past two years, you don't realize the process most of us have gone through. I used to be able to rationalize and get excited about every move the team made. I cheered the Etan Thomas offer sheet. But over time you see the same mistakes being made over and over.

I think the anger really accelerated coming off the Stephen Jackson trade during draft day 2011. That was the start of it. And the moves since that point have gotten progressively worse and worse.

Before that point, I'd say the super negative crew was only maybe 20 percent of the board. Now most of us have fallen in line due to the Bucks management actions of late being questionable if not downright stupid the day they are made.

Not only have the moves gotten worse, but the shine has come off some of the moves that once generated a lot of optimism. Jennings would be the prime example of this, and I think it's an example that cloisters and taints the way we feel about all our young guys. Henson, to draw a comparison, is a mid first round pick and shows every sign of far exceeding that value, yet you can already see the optimism on him start to sour a bit.

Part of it is that we've been burned before, and part of it is that we need very ordinary moves (signing a mid-price FA, making a mid-1st draft pick) to work out on a level that is flat out unreasonable to expect, because we don't position ourselves in such a way that would justify high expectations.

So we get into arguments over whether or not Giannis is a future superstar. That's way too much weight to put on the 15th overall pick, and we all intellectually know that, but we also know that hitting that scratch-off is the only way out of this hole.

[jtrinaldi]

wonder which players havee been on realm.....If Monta was on realgm,I can understand why he wants mothing to do with MIL-Town anymore

[msiris]

I think a bigger problem with the Bucks is when they think they have some core pieces to build around. They tried to build around Bogut and BJ for awhile there. In reality these guys are all really nice role players. So we try add guys like Jackson thinking we already have a nice core, so lets add better people at other positions. Hard to win with just all role players. Most teams are finding out its hard to win with just one superstar.

[Baddy Chuck]

wonder which players havee been on realm.....If Monta was on realgm,I can understand why he wants mothing to do with MIL-Town anymore

Charlie Bell, I think Bogut alluded to checking the forums out before too.

[jtrinaldi]

wonder which players havee been on realm.....If Monta was on realgm,I can understand why he wants mothing to do with MIL-Town anymore

Charlie Bell, I think Bogut alluded to checking the forums out before too.

ah I see,hopefully Brando checks this out as well,get him the **** otta here

[trwi7]

Charlie Bell promised a pizza party. Failed to deliver.

[paulpressey25]

So we get into arguments over whether or not Giannis is a future superstar. That's way too much weight to put on the 15th overall pick, and we all intellectually know that, but we also know that hitting that scratch-off is the only way out of this hole.

Again this expectations thing I put back on the Bucks. If you have a poor roster and poor results, but keep touting your mid-first round picks as future core building blocks, it isn't fair to those players. And it isn't fair to the casual fans who initially buy into the crap that guys picked in the 10-20 range are going to be core top three type players on a 50-win team.

[theFireBlanket]

wonder which players havee been on realm.....If Monta was on realgm,I can understand why he wants mothing to do with MIL-Town anymore

Charlie Bell, I think Bogut alluded to checking the forums out before too.

ah I see,hopefully Brando checks this out as well,get him the **** otta here

http://instagram.com/p/b327XaknEq/#

I'm sure he pays close attention to your posts.

[jtcooky]

Yeah I've been lurking on here for about a year and a half, and I've just started posting recently. At first I was shocked by the negativity and vowed to not come back until things turned around.

But then when I ran dry on rumors I always ended up coming back... And wouldn't ya know it you guys really grew on me, and I started to look at the bigger picture.

I'd only been following the Bucks closely since BJ's night of 55, so I had been looking at this team through swag colored glasses. Not anymore though. I finally see the truth

[msiris]

Not only have the moves gotten worse, but the shine has come off some of the moves that once generated a lot of optimism. Jennings would be the prime example of this, and I think it's an example that cloisters and taints the way we feel about all our young guys. Henson, to draw a comparison, is a mid first round pick and shows every sign of far exceeding that value, yet you can already see the optimism on him start to sour a bit.

Part of it is that we've been burned before, and part of it is that we need very ordinary moves (signing a mid-price FA, making a mid-1st draft pick) to work out on a level that is flat out unreasonable to expect, because we don't position ourselves in such a way that would justify high expectations.

So we get into arguments over whether or not Giannis is a future superstar. That's way too much weight to put on the 15th overall pick, and we all intellectually know that, but we also know that hitting that scratch-off is the only way out of this hole.

And all our problems stems from that win now mentality. I love it when people say oh he is going to be a bust or a great player before they even play one game in the NBA. Right now Henson seems like a favorite here. I am going to wait and see if he can do it night in and night out before I declare him a part of the core.

[msiris]

So we get into arguments over whether or not Giannis is a future superstar. That's way too much weight to put on the 15th overall pick, and we all intellectually know that, but we also know that hitting that scratch-off is the only way out of this hole.

Again this expectations thing I put back on the Bucks. If you have a poor roster and poor results, but keep touting your mid-first round picks as future core building blocks, it isn't fair to those players. And it isn't fair to the casual fans who initially buy into the crap that guys picked in the 10-20 range are going to be core top three type players on a 50-win team.

Are Henson and Sanders going to make us a 50 win team? People see them as our core right now.

[smauss]

It seems like we are looking at the Jennings thing completely backwards. Rather than getting ticked off that the bucks don't "want him" he should look at the big question of "why?" Rather than looking to blame he should stand in front of the mirror. My directions for Jennings: 1.) watch tapes for 4 hours 2.) go and look in the mirror - repeat steps 1 & 2 again 3.) when done and while still looking in the mirror, call your coach & GM and apologize, explaining to them what you need to do better 4.) tell them you will sign a one year deal for what you got paid last year and show them how you will improve (via contract incentives) 5.) Then renegotiate a long term deal after next year based on steps 1-4.

Brandon Jennings = The New Stuart Smalley.....
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DIETlxquzY[/youtube]

[jtrinaldi]

Not only have the moves gotten worse, but the shine has come off some of the moves that once generated a lot of optimism. Jennings would be the prime example of this, and I think it's an example that cloisters and taints the way we feel about all our young guys. Henson, to draw a comparison, is a mid first round pick and shows every sign of far exceeding that value, yet you can already see the optimism on him start to sour a bit.

Part of it is that we've been burned before, and part of it is that we need very ordinary moves (signing a mid-price FA, making a mid-1st draft pick) to work out on a level that is flat out unreasonable to expect, because we don't position ourselves in such a way that would justify high expectations.

So we get into arguments over whether or not Giannis is a future superstar. That's way too much weight to put on the 15th overall pick, and we all intellectually know that, but we also know that hitting that scratch-off is the only way out of this hole.

And all our problems stems from that win now mentality. I love it when people say oh he is going to be a bust or a great player before they even play one game in the NBA. Right now Henson seems like a favorite here. I am going to wait and see if he can do it night in and night out before I declare him a part of the core.

Our Core is eventually Giannis with Larry and Henson. Too early to tell if that will be able to produce a 50 win team,but barring any major **** ups to win now (a la Tobes) I like it

[Craig_Hodges]

Again this expectations thing I put back on the Bucks. If you have a poor roster and poor results, but keep touting your mid-first round picks as future core building blocks, it isn't fair to those players. And it isn't fair to the casual fans who initially buy into the crap that guys picked in the 10-20 range are going to be core top three type players on a 50-win team.

Never thought about the aspect that touting 10-20 range picks as core building blocks isn't fair to those players. You know, we expect a guy like Jennings to understand who he really is, but at the end of the day the organization as a whole has touted him as a superstar ever since he scored those fateful 55 points in his rookie year. They're just as culpable as Jennings for creating what he's become today.

What I don't really get is the 180 degree turn the Bucks have taken in their own view of Jennings. Did Larry Drew come in and instantly have more cred in player evaluations than Hammond? Does Hammond really have no opinion himself and no NBA scout that he trusts and leaves player evaluations to the head coaches? Did Boylan's handling of Jennings and Jennings response to that open some eyes?

I don't get it...

[HELPLESS]

Are Henson and Sanders going to make us a 50 win team? People see them as our core right now.

I would like to think that Henson and Sanders are part of the core but not the type of players a team should build around, if that makes sense. They are two guys that should be complimenting better players on a really good team.

If they were the 3rd and 4th best players on a team, I think the Bucks would win 50 plus games. Regardless of all that, you need a superstar to win a championship or a team filled with a bunch of unselfish all-stars (the recent Pistons champ team). History tells us getting a superstar is probably easier than filling your roster with multiple all-stars. There's only a couple of teams who have won it all that way.

That is why I would be fine with trading Sanders, Henson, Giannis and anyone else if it got the Bucks a superstar. That is obviously easier said than done. Get your star and then worry about building the rest of the roster like so many have mentioned.

[msiris]

Are Henson and Sanders going to make us a 50 win team? People see them as our core right now.

I would like to think that Henson and Sanders are part of the core but not the type of players a team should build around, if that makes sense. They are two guys that should be complimenting better players on a really good team.

If they were the 3rd and 4th best players on a team, I think the Bucks would win 50 plus games. Regardless of all that, you need a superstar to win a championship or a team filled with a bunch of unselfish all-stars (the recent Pistons champ team). History tells us getting a superstar is probably easier than filling your roster with multiple all-stars. There's only a couple of teams who have won it all that way.

That is why I would be fine with trading Sanders, Henson, Giannis and anyone else if it got the Bucks a superstar. That is obviously easier said than done. Get your star and then worry about building the rest of the roster like so many have mentioned.

And there is only one way for the Bucks to do that. They have been doing it backwards , since drafting Bogut. And some of it has been bad luck as well. Not getting that 3rd pick and missing out on Hortford.

[HELPLESS]

Are Henson and Sanders going to make us a 50 win team? People see them as our core right now.

I would like to think that Henson and Sanders are part of the core but not the type of players a team should build around, if that makes sense. They are two guys that should be complimenting better players on a really good team.

If they were the 3rd and 4th best players on a team, I think the Bucks would win 50 plus games. Regardless of all that, you need a superstar to win a championship or a team filled with a bunch of unselfish all-stars (the recent Pistons champ team). History tells us getting a superstar is probably easier than filling your roster with multiple all-stars. There's only a couple of teams who have won it all that way.

That is why I would be fine with trading Sanders, Henson, Giannis and anyone else if it got the Bucks a superstar. That is obviously easier said than done. Get your star and then worry about building the rest of the roster like so many have mentioned.

And there is only one way for the Bucks to do that. They have been doing it backwards , since drafting Bogut. And some of it has been bad luck as well. Not getting that 3rd pick and missing out on Hortford.

Don't let Duke hear you say that

It's pretty clear to all of the sane here that drafting high is the path to the promiseland but it's unfortunately not going to happen until Kohl passes over to the promisedland. That's why injuries and stealth tank are all we can pin our hopes on.

[paulpressey25]

What I don't really get is the 180 degree turn the Bucks have taken in their own view of Jennings. Did Larry Drew come in and instantly have more cred in player evaluations than Hammond? ......

I don't get it...

I can't claim to know who in that war room (see Bucks war room photo thread) wanted or didn't want Jennings. Maybe Hammond doesn't want Jennings either but Kohl or a crony does.

But I do know from first hand accounts from people who used to be in that room years ago that Kohl will always talk up "the new guy" that he's hired and usually the first year will give the new guy all sorts of deference. The new guy, whether it was Mike Dunleavy, George Karl, Grunfeld, Larry Harris, Hammond, Skiles or now Drew, typically gets a ton of initial love from Kohl.

So if I had to guess, Larry Drew does not want anything to do with Brandon Jennings, and Kohl is now allowing that opinion to carry the day. Hence the 180 degree turn from wanting Jennings (signed to an acceptable contract) at different points in the past 12-months.

Of course once the Bucks record is 14-25 come January 15th, Kohl probably discounts everything Larry Drew says. At that point, one of the cronies will point out to Herb that Drew is a nice man but no miracle worker and that Kohl should go back to listening to the cronies.