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The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (Day 30)

Moderators: MickeyDavis, paulpressey25

What should the Bucks do with Jennings?

Offer him the QO
85
36%
Offer him a long-term deal
27
11%
Let him walk
124
53%
 
Total votes: 236

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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (who has cap space left?) 

Post#1221 » by raysbookclub » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:08 am

SkilesTheLimit wrote:If you are in the camp that believes Ted Davis is more "in the know" than he leads on, after listening to the 4pm hour of the WSSP Big Show today, you'd walk away thinking Jennings was a goner.

He critiqued him very honestly and even pushed back when people were trying to make excuses for Brandon's lack of development.

Caller: Brandon hasn't improved because he doesn't have talented players around him.
Davis: Talented players around him wouldn't change the fact he's a 40% shooter and very streaky.

Ted went on to call him a "matador" defender and said his effort on defense has gotten worse since his rookie year as guys get past him while he is forced to then try to steal the ball chasing the opponent down.

The biggest takeaway is Davis saying that his belief is that "after 3-4 years, a player is what he is." Brandon Jennings is a guy that can go off on certain nights, but also go cold on other nights and shoot you out of a game. He's a high volume shooter and Ted thinks this is what Jennings will continue to be as a player.

He also mentioned several times that Jennings was offered $10 million per season last year in a contract extension but turned it down after seeing Holiday, Lawson and Curry get $11 million. He felt his value was more in that range, if not higher and was "promised" the sun, moon, and stars from his new agent who hyped him up and Brandon believed every word and overvalued himself. Ted also said the league has given Jennings an assessment of his worth as he doesn't have anyone knocking down his door.

I'd listen if you guys get the chance -- Davis is no Paschke (Edit: or Monroe :wink: ).


thanks for the summary.

really like ted davis's candor, and that candor makes it hard to read too much into anything he sees, in terms of figuring out front office plans. unlike jso, he could be criticizing jennings at the same time that the bucks are working on a multi-year deal.
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (who has cap space left?) 

Post#1222 » by Ayt » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:09 am

I'm loving that a few weeks ago Jennings made those comments about wanting to Bucks to commit to him as "the man" and now we are here. Other teams don't want him and we tried to replace him.

Still, this could be the best thing that has happened to him in years. He was clearly delusional just a few short weeks ago. This has all had to be extremely sobering.
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (who has cap space left?) 

Post#1223 » by emunney » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:16 am

paulpressey25 wrote:I'd be happy to get Brandon Knight in a sign and trade and move on.


This idea has grown on my more and more. Why not go for a best case scenario? Giannis becomes a primary halfcourt ballhandler; Knight is the 3 and D point guard.
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (who has cap space left?) 

Post#1224 » by SkilesTheLimit » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:17 am

Ayt wrote:I'm loving that a few weeks ago Jennings made those comments about wanting to Bucks to commit to him as "the man" and now we are here. Other teams don't want him and we tried to replace him.

Still, this could be the best thing that has happened to him in years. He was clearly delusional just a few short weeks ago. This has all had to be extremely sobering.


I wouldn't be so sure. He could be rationalizing this out still in his mind.

His excuses (#No Excuses) could be that teams that originally coveted him solidified themselves at PG thru the draft or were already over the cap and couldn't find a way to add him on their books.

Not so sure how he rationalizes the Bucks pursuing Teague over him other than him being a favorite of Larry Drew from their ATL days.

For all we know, Drew could be meeting with Jennings tonight in person trying to smooth everything over and sell him on being "the Man." There's no outcome with Jennings that will surprise me at this point.
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (who has cap space left?) 

Post#1225 » by SpursNBucks » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:33 am

SkilesTheLimit wrote:
paulpressey25 wrote:I'd be happy to get Brandon Knight in a sign and trade and move on.


I could live with that. He's under team control on his rookie contract for two more seasons before becoming a RFA. If you happened to draft a PG or a better one becomes available by trade, he's a capable backup or a guy you could peddle off if need be. At this point, the options for Brandon are so few that we take anything of value we can get.


This could happen- you would be going from bad to worse though. Knight's Assist/TO is quite a bit worse then Jennings and he is just about as inefficient scoring. Neither one is a good defender. That is why Detroit is trying to upgrade. The only advantage would be saving cash- but they would have to add something because if you trade the QO of Jennings ($4.531) with Knight $2.947m -you would be short of the min. Maybe they can get them to throw in Singler- that is about another $1m-
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (who has cap space left?) 

Post#1226 » by paulpressey25 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:39 am

emunney wrote:
paulpressey25 wrote:I'd be happy to get Brandon Knight in a sign and trade and move on.


This idea has grown on my more and more. Why not go for a best case scenario? Giannis becomes a primary halfcourt ballhandler; Knight is the 3 and D point guard.


There really is zero circumstance under which Jennings comes back outside of giving him a crazy contract.

On the QO he's going to be poison to our young guys. And if he plays great under the QO we are either losing him in FA or paying him $14 million a year to keep him next summer.

So I think Knight is a decent value asset and likely the best we could get. We should try to get it and move on.
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (who has cap space left?) 

Post#1227 » by BucksRUS » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:47 am

paulpressey25 wrote:Just wonder if this goes like summer of Sessions and we are still talking about this three weeks from now.


I don't really see an end in sight for this saga, or at least any quick resolution. I fully expect to be talking about this in September.
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (who has cap space left?) 

Post#1228 » by TchenBucks » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:51 am

SkilesTheLimit wrote:If you are in the camp that believes Ted Davis is more "in the know" than he leads on, after listening to the 4pm hour of the WSSP Big Show today, you'd walk away thinking Jennings was a goner.

He critiqued him very honestly and even pushed back when people were trying to make excuses for Brandon's lack of development.

Caller: Brandon hasn't improved because he doesn't have talented players around him.
Davis: Talented players around him wouldn't change the fact he's a 40% shooter and very streaky.

Ted went on to call him a "matador" defender and said his effort on defense has gotten worse since his rookie year as guys get past him while he is forced to then try to steal the ball chasing the opponent down.

The biggest takeaway is Davis saying that his belief is that "after 3-4 years, a player is what he is." Brandon Jennings is a guy that can go off on certain nights, but also go cold on other nights and shoot you out of a game. He's a high volume shooter and Ted thinks this is what Jennings will continue to be as a player.

He also mentioned several times that Jennings was offered $10 million per season last year in a contract extension but turned it down after seeing Holiday, Lawson and Curry get $11 million. He felt his value was more in that range, if not higher and was "promised" the sun, moon, and stars from his new agent who hyped him up and Brandon believed every word and overvalued himself. Ted also said the league has given Jennings an assessment of his worth as he doesn't have anyone knocking down his door.

I'd listen if you guys get the chance -- Davis is no Paschke (Edit: or Monroe :wink: ).


He stated that Jennings is what he is, as several of us, including Nebula have also stated.

None of us have said we agree Jennings is the man, but we all agree he would be a solid 3rd option for a good team. Something that has yet to happen. If he made others around him better, he could be a legit #1 guy. Jennings is a borderline All-Star that is likely never going to make it in a crowded competition. He was 7 votes out in 2012, and 3 votes out in 2013. Doubt he gets closer then that as each year a top player was hurt.

I would really be shocked if Jennings gets anything more then 9m annually at this point, if he even gets a deal at all.
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (who has cap space left?) 

Post#1229 » by White+Purple » Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:27 am

Ayt wrote:Still, this could be the best thing that has happened to him in years. He was clearly delusional just a few short weeks ago. This has all had to be extremely sobering.

This is about the only optimism I have left for this season :(
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (who has cap space left?) 

Post#1230 » by jakecronus8 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:02 am

paulpressey25 wrote:
emunney wrote:
paulpressey25 wrote:I'd be happy to get Brandon Knight in a sign and trade and move on.


This idea has grown on my more and more. Why not go for a best case scenario? Giannis becomes a primary halfcourt ballhandler; Knight is the 3 and D point guard.



On the QO he's going to be poison


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Jennings on the QO is still ideal in my mind as a tanker.

He either plays great and ups his value to be traded at the deadline, or sulks and is toxic on the court, in which case Larry Drew, who has no allegiance to him whatsover, can bench him.
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (who has cap space left?) 

Post#1231 » by JayMKE » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:14 am

I don't think there is anything to suggest that Jennings will be "poison" on the QO, it would pretty much guarantee that he wouldn't be coming back tho but he'd be motivated to play well so he can get the contract he wants. You guys like to act like Brandon is some big locker room cancer because he gets pouty from time to time, he's just a young kid that wears his emotions on his sleeve. He could be a nice sweetener in a deal at the deadline for sure I think.
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (who has cap space left?) 

Post#1232 » by ampd » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:17 am

I'd rather we sign him or trade him, the QO does not appeal to me at all.
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (who has cap space left?) 

Post#1233 » by SpursNBucks » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:30 am

JayMKE wrote:I don't think there is anything to suggest that Jennings will be "poison" on the QO, it would pretty much guarantee that he wouldn't be coming back tho but he'd be motivated to play well so he can get the contract he wants. You guys like to act like Brandon is some big locker room cancer because he gets pouty from time to time, he's just a young kid that wears his emotions on his sleeve. He could be a nice sweetener in a deal at the deadline for sure I think.


Agree with everything said here. I think he could have a good year- I think it is good that he has been humbled by not receiving any offers because like Monta he thinks he is a lot better then he is- reality is set in. I also think Drew could be a good influence on him.
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (who has cap space left?) 

Post#1234 » by FemaleDogPlease » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:51 pm

Why do people keep thinking they can trade Brandon Jennings at the deadline if he accepts the QO?

If a team will have the cap space to sign him in the summer they aren't going to give up any real value in a trade for him 4 months early. Makes no sense. If a team doesn't have cap space Brandon Jennings will veto the trade.

Brandon Jennings is no Chris Paul but a contract year tends to get guys playing at their highest level.
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (who has cap space left?) 

Post#1235 » by Bucksmaniac » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:57 pm

JayMKE wrote:I don't think there is anything to suggest that Jennings will be "poison" on the QO, it would pretty much guarantee that he wouldn't be coming back tho but he'd be motivated to play well so he can get the contract he wants. You guys like to act like Brandon is some big locker room cancer because he gets pouty from time to time, he's just a young kid that wears his emotions on his sleeve. He could be a nice sweetener in a deal at the deadline for sure I think.


He doesn't have enough experience to be a locker room cancer. However, in 5-10 years, if he still has this attitude, he could easily go the way of a Steven Jackson and influence other young players.
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (who has cap space left?) 

Post#1236 » by glenn » Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:20 pm

FemaleDogPlease wrote:Why do people keep thinking they can trade Brandon Jennings at the deadline if he accepts the QO?

If a team will have the cap space to sign him in the summer they aren't going to give up any real value in a trade for him 4 months early. Makes no sense. If a team doesn't have cap space Brandon Jennings will veto the trade.

Brandon Jennings is no Chris Paul but a contract year tends to get guys playing at their highest level.

Hey, the Bucks traded one of their most promising young players for J.J. Redick during their so-called playoff push. Teams do stupid things sometimes.
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (who has cap space left?) 

Post#1237 » by Ervin Johnson » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:57 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/GeryWoelfel/status/358339289446232064[/tweet]
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (who has cap space left?) 

Post#1238 » by M-C-G » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:05 pm

So who are the best PG available via trade? Hopefully we are trying to work something with OKC, but more than likely I see a Jameer Nelson in our future
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (who has cap space left?) 

Post#1239 » by EastSideBucksFan » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:08 pm

As much as I'm excited for Giannis I'm watching Dennis Schroeder here play the Hawks and his defense is looking pretty good. Would've been stoked to put him in a Bucks jersey and start him right away.
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (who has cap space left?) 

Post#1240 » by Ayt » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:16 pm

FemaleDogPlease wrote:Why do people keep thinking they can trade Brandon Jennings at the deadline if he accepts the QO?

If a team will have the cap space to sign him in the summer they aren't going to give up any real value in a trade for him 4 months early. Makes no sense. If a team doesn't have cap space Brandon Jennings will veto the trade.

Brandon Jennings is no Chris Paul but a contract year tends to get guys playing at their highest level.


He was in a contract year last year, BitchPlease. How did that work out?

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