ImageImage

Braun to admit to PED use on 8/19

Moderators: MickeyDavis, paulpressey25, humanrefutation

User avatar
humanrefutation
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 32,873
And1: 16,557
Joined: Jun 05, 2006
       

Re: Braun suspended for the remainder of the season 

Post#81 » by humanrefutation » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:34 pm

This whole saga brings back this anecdote that I've thought about...

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/890 ... d-question

Not everyone tests for elevated testosterone. For the leagues or sports that do, they must account for people with naturally elevated levels of testosterone. That threshold is higher than you think because they're accounting for biological outliers — some athletes might naturally have twice as much testosterone as the average person. All right, so let's say you're an NFL player that has to test three times higher than the "average" threshold before getting flagged. Conceivably, you could rely on a controlled amount of HGH, something that bumps you up … just not TOO high. Maybe you jack up your testosterone levels a little under three times higher than they should be. Guess what? That's still legal! Do they have patches that can briefly bump up your levels without prolonged traces? Yes, they do! Did one famous athlete (not an NFL player) use that patch on his testicles to bump his levels close to that threshold, fall asleep, keep his patch on too long and subsequently fail his next test? Yes, he did! It's amazing this doesn't happen more often.


Is he talking about Braun?
User avatar
Kerb Hohl
RealGM
Posts: 35,561
And1: 4,442
Joined: Jun 17, 2005
Location: Hmmmm...how many 1sts would Jason Richardson cost...?

Re: Braun suspended for the remainder of the season 

Post#82 » by Kerb Hohl » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:37 pm

Yeah, we talked about that on the other thread during the process. I think a lot of us thought so.
User avatar
humanrefutation
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 32,873
And1: 16,557
Joined: Jun 05, 2006
       

Re: Braun suspended for the remainder of the season 

Post#83 » by humanrefutation » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:39 pm

Kerb Hohl wrote:Yeah, we talked about that on the other thread during the process. I think a lot of us thought so.


I remember that. This whole thing just reminded me of that anecdote.

If it's true Braun simply "slipped up" once, then there is no guarantee he's not going to keep using. Well - then again - there is no guarantee no one else is using, either.
User avatar
BUCKnation
RealGM
Posts: 19,529
And1: 4,224
Joined: Jun 15, 2011
       

Re: Braun suspended for the remainder of the season 

Post#84 » by BUCKnation » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:04 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:What does it say if he comes back next season and puts up MVP caliber numbers, completely clean? I thought that's what we assumed he did in 2012. I wish we had more details.

I dont think he is a "hardcore" user. I think he probably used some PED's to recover from an injury or something and got unlucky with a test.

Last year he was probably tested more than any other player, never was positive, and put up his best year.
coolhandluke121
RealGM
Posts: 14,026
And1: 7,339
Joined: Sep 23, 2007

Re: Braun suspended for the remainder of the season 

Post#85 » by coolhandluke121 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:53 pm

humanrefutation wrote:This whole saga brings back this anecdote that I've thought about...

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/890 ... d-question

Not everyone tests for elevated testosterone. For the leagues or sports that do, they must account for people with naturally elevated levels of testosterone. That threshold is higher than you think because they're accounting for biological outliers — some athletes might naturally have twice as much testosterone as the average person. All right, so let's say you're an NFL player that has to test three times higher than the "average" threshold before getting flagged. Conceivably, you could rely on a controlled amount of HGH, something that bumps you up … just not TOO high. Maybe you jack up your testosterone levels a little under three times higher than they should be. Guess what? That's still legal! Do they have patches that can briefly bump up your levels without prolonged traces? Yes, they do! Did one famous athlete (not an NFL player) use that patch on his testicles to bump his levels close to that threshold, fall asleep, keep his patch on too long and subsequently fail his next test? Yes, he did! It's amazing this doesn't happen more often.


Is he talking about Braun?


Yeah, I was going to post a whole long thing about that but this saves me the trouble. I think that's the "Braun advantage" that was referenced in some of the biogenesis documents. Take a steady diet of testosterone every day so that MLB thinks you naturally have high testosterone. Then use those recovery creams when you need them. Victor Conte has said that's the best PED for athletes to use and said it was the biggest loophole in baseball. They spike your testosterone for a little while, help you recovery, and are out of your system in several hours. Unless you get tested at the worst possible time, like Braun right after the first playoff game (remember that anecdote about some witness in the locker-room seeing Braun get super-pissed about a drug test right after that game?), your testosterone is probably going to be back to what MLB thinks is your baseline level, but what is really the consistently elevated level that you've manipulated throughout your career. The Miami connections, the fact that Braun finally buckled, his relationship with A-Rod (remember how much A-Rod praised him when the Brewers first drafted him?) - it all adds up to him being one big fat cheating b*tch.

That said, he was clearly not on steroids and probably not on HGH. I think he was on those recovery creams Conte talked about - the easiest, most useful PED that you can usually still get away with taking - that don't provide a long-term advantage. He would be pretty great without them, as he demonstrated last year, which is what makes it all the more infuriating. But it's clearly still an advantage, because it helps you recover from those aches and pains that can interfere with your performance.
Wut we've got here is... faaailure... to communakate.
User avatar
crkone
RealGM
Posts: 29,126
And1: 9,752
Joined: Aug 16, 2006

Re: Braun suspended for the remainder of the season 

Post#86 » by crkone » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:54 pm

@Millerparkdrunk is retweeting some pretty insane stuff. Twitter is really a haven for the dregs of society.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/JMahoney26/status/359450572543361025[/tweet]

Code: Select all

o- - -  \o          __|
   o/   /|          vv`\
  /|     |              |
   |    / \_            |
  / \   |               |
 /  |                   |
User avatar
humanrefutation
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 32,873
And1: 16,557
Joined: Jun 05, 2006
       

Re: Braun suspended for the remainder of the season 

Post#87 » by humanrefutation » Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:13 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/BillSimmons/status/359686181639819264[/tweet]

Low blow, Simmons.
User avatar
trwi7
RealGM
Posts: 111,731
And1: 27,304
Joined: Jul 12, 2006
Location: Aussie bias
         

Re: Braun suspended for the remainder of the season 

Post#88 » by trwi7 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:20 pm

stellation wrote:What's the difference between Gery Woelful and this glass of mineral water? The mineral water actually has a source."


I Hate Manure wrote:We look to be awful next season without Beasley.
Cole_Martin
Ballboy
Posts: 5
And1: 0
Joined: Jul 13, 2013

Re: Braun suspended for the remainder of the season 

Post#89 » by Cole_Martin » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:58 pm

To me I could care less if Braun did PED's or whatever. What makes him such a piece of you know what is the fact he lied multiple times AND then proceeded to go on the offensive and attack other people for their part in the positive test result. He even described himself as a victim. All the while he knew he was guilty. That takes a special kind of human being to do that. A really pathetic one. He has gotten the chance to live a dream life playing ball at a high level. It's one thing to cheat. But, if you get caught, at least don't lie about it. If you lie about it, at least don't throw others under the bus and attack others and play the victim role.

I would have had much more respect if he came out and explained what he did and moved on. Heck he could even say he doesn't regret it and I would not care. Andy Pettite tested positive and came right out and admitted it. I can respect that a lot more. People make mistakes and even knowingly try to get ahead. They probably shouldn't but I can understand the pressures. Then to adamantly protest it and say that you are a person of integrity and what not is a completely different level of character.

Just my two cents.
Godgers
Banned User
Posts: 1,474
And1: 117
Joined: Aug 08, 2012

Re: Braun suspended for the remainder of the season 

Post#90 » by Godgers » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:04 pm

humanrefutation wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/BillSimmons/status/359686181639819264[/tweet]

Low blow, Simmons.


We do have the Packers a top 3 franchise in all sports.

We do alright.
Mr Roboto
Ballboy
Posts: 40
And1: 2
Joined: May 09, 2013

Re: Braun suspended for the remainder of the season 

Post#91 » by Mr Roboto » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:07 pm

Captain Erv wrote:Buster Olney saying Braun should reach out to AZ players from 2011 playoffs. That is a little bit ridiculous if you ask me.



Remember how dialed in Albert Pujols was in the NLCS? Dude is a machine, he came back way early from a major injury to get the Cards in the postseason in 2011. Not saying Pujols did anything illegal, but I assume you only need to apologize if MLB conducts a witch hunt and eventually suspends you.

How many days left until I can completely ditch ESPN for FS1...
sneakerdust
Banned User
Posts: 856
And1: 101
Joined: Oct 04, 2012
Location: www.indeed.com
Contact:
 

Re: Braun suspended for the remainder of the season 

Post#92 » by sneakerdust » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:31 pm

Espn now:

Big Picture story : A pariah in the Game

#2 listed story: Braun suspended for rest of season

#3 listed story: KwikTrip drops Braun :rofl:
User avatar
Run-MKE 311
Senior
Posts: 553
And1: 9
Joined: Oct 22, 2012
Location: Left coast and the midwest

Re: Braun suspended for the remainder of the season 

Post#93 » by Run-MKE 311 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:23 pm

I fully admit that I supported, believed and stuck up for Braun. In my mind the investigation by MLB & Bud was a witch hunt and I doubted their ability to bring a convincing case to the table against Braun.

I stand corrected and have been floored by this. It is clear that MLB had sweeping and sufficient evidence against Braun, he knew it. He struck a deal and now has to face the music.

I have been following Braun since college and remember well the anticipation before and when the Brewers brought him up. Rookie of the Year, All Star, clutch performer & MVP, for me he was the face of Wisconsin sports (I am a larger Brewer than Packer fan). To me he was the man and I will never forget the fun I had going to games and watching the Brewers during that run from 07'-12'. But now that is tainted forever and it sucks.

Braun was a symbol of hope for a franchise and fan base that had been beaten down for far too long, now we must search again to find that marquee player we can connect to. For me he gave the city of Milwaukee a superstar that was confident and could back it up with clutch play that was second to none.

He needs to go away for a while, which he will and figure out how he can come back and start over. I would love for him to hold a press conference and face the firing squad, but he most likely will not. At least by doing that I believe he could recapture some of his dignity.
Ball so hard.
Captain Erv
General Manager
Posts: 8,119
And1: 78
Joined: Jan 13, 2005
Contact:
     

Re: Braun suspended for the remainder of the season 

Post#94 » by Captain Erv » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:46 pm

Mr Roboto wrote:
Captain Erv wrote:Buster Olney saying Braun should reach out to AZ players from 2011 playoffs. That is a little bit ridiculous if you ask me.



Remember how dialed in Albert Pujols was in the NLCS? Dude is a machine, he came back way early from a major injury to get the Cards in the postseason in 2011. Not saying Pujols did anything illegal, but I assume you only need to apologize if MLB conducts a witch hunt and eventually suspends you.

How many days left until I can completely ditch ESPN for FS1...


As soon as the rest of the suspensions are handed down I assume Buster Olney will be asking for a lot of different players to apologize to a lot of different teams.
NeedsMoreCheese
RealGM
Posts: 43,042
And1: 8,369
Joined: Apr 22, 2002
   

Re: Braun suspended for the remainder of the season 

Post#95 » by NeedsMoreCheese » Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:22 pm

What annoys me is now they're trying to make that collector seem like a victim. Which is bullsh*t because had he done his job properly he never could have been attacked or singled out by Braun.
Yes Braun is an idiot, but that doesn't all of a sudden make everyone else not responsible for their own actions.
Drug testing people and following the procedures in place isn't hard at all. So **** that guy
User avatar
Buck You
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 37,555
And1: 541
Joined: Jul 24, 2006
Location: Illinois
     

Re: Braun suspended for the remainder of the season 

Post#96 » by Buck You » Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:56 pm

User avatar
Asher
Starter
Posts: 2,034
And1: 159
Joined: Jul 05, 2006

Re: Braun suspended for the remainder of the season 

Post#97 » by Asher » Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:04 pm

Kohl Is A Mome wrote:What annoys me is now they're trying to make that collector seem like a victim. Which is bullsh*t because had he done his job properly he never could have been attacked or singled out by Braun.
Yes Braun is an idiot, but that doesn't all of a sudden make everyone else not responsible for their own actions.
Drug testing people and following the procedures in place isn't hard at all. So **** that guy


that's a fair point. the problem with that guy had little to do with whether braun took peds or not, but that he improperly handled the samples. if anything, he should be reprimanded for neglecting a pretty serious job protocol, which led to a (supposedly) guilty party getting off.
User avatar
WEFFPIM
RealGM
Posts: 38,521
And1: 473
Joined: Nov 14, 2005
Location: WEFFPIM. I'm the real WEFFPIM.
   

Re: Braun suspended for the remainder of the season 

Post#98 » by WEFFPIM » Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:27 pm

The only way we should feel sorry for Dino Laurenzi is that him failing to do his job properly allowed for another year of all of this.
ReddWing wrote:Being a fan of this team is tantamount to being in hell...There is no Christ that is coming to save us. Even if there was, we'd trade him for a 28 year old wing.
User avatar
humanrefutation
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 32,873
And1: 16,557
Joined: Jun 05, 2006
       

Re: Braun suspended for the remainder of the season 

Post#99 » by humanrefutation » Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:36 pm

WEFFPIM wrote:The only way we should feel sorry for Dino Laurenzi is that him failing to do his job properly allowed for another year of all of this.


Braun's camp didn't have to leak the guy's name, especially when Braun was actually doping.
Godgers
Banned User
Posts: 1,474
And1: 117
Joined: Aug 08, 2012

Re: Braun suspended for the remainder of the season 

Post#100 » by Godgers » Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:43 pm

Brauns a fraud and a douche.

Where there's smoke there's fire.

Bad enough Rodgers is close with him and stood by him 100% telling everyone he would bet his NFL salary that Braun is clean. Same crap when Rodgers made a bet about the 49ers and wearing a jersey if he lost and never did that either.

I'm not going to lie, the thought of Rodgers being on roids now has poped in my head and nothing shocks me in sports anymore.

Return to Milwaukee Brewers