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The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (Day 30)

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What should the Bucks do with Jennings?

Offer him the QO
85
36%
Offer him a long-term deal
27
11%
Let him walk
124
53%
 
Total votes: 236

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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (Day 24) 

Post#1561 » by mlloyd10 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:30 pm

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:
TheWig wrote:Jennings is better than Chalmers IMHO


Better than Dragic, Chalmers, Nelson, and Burke IMO. The rest is pretty accurate. Teague is also clearly better.


none of the teams that those players play for would rather have jennings. better is relative. i dont think theres a single team that would rather have jennings than the guy theyve got other than MAYBE the knicks.


Thats my point, Jennings doesn't "move the needle" on any team except the Pistons and 76ers
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (Day 24) 

Post#1562 » by Ron Swanson » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:36 pm

mlloyd10 wrote:I dont hate Jennings, Im just realistic. I have 1 rookie equal to Jennings and yes i believe that burke is on par with him.


Pure speculation until we see Burke play an actual NBA game. I'm not defending Jennings at all but in no way is Jameer Nelson an equal player to him. He's the worst starting PG in the league and it's not even close. I'd take an expired can of string beans as my PG before I take Jameer...
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (Day 24) 

Post#1563 » by jtcooky » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:39 pm

mlloyd10 wrote:
jtcooky wrote:I really think he's better than Calderon and Lin too


Calderon is a better "PG" than Jennings currently. Per 36, he has more assists and less TO. Calderon also shots better


I figured Calderon's offensive stats would be better, but I was just going by feel and game impact.

EDIT: *potential game impact, not necessarily consistent impact
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (Day 24) 

Post#1564 » by GHOSTofSIKMA » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:45 pm

mlloyd10 wrote:
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:
Better than Dragic, Chalmers, Nelson, and Burke IMO. The rest is pretty accurate. Teague is also clearly better.


none of the teams that those players play for would rather have jennings. better is relative. i dont think theres a single team that would rather have jennings than the guy theyve got other than MAYBE the knicks.


Thats my point, Jennings doesn't "move the needle" on any team except the Pistons and 76ers


the sixers wouldnt want him over mcw right now, and i think if detroit wanted him instead of knight then that would have already happened. i seriously think there isnt a single team in this league that would want him unless he dropped his demands to mle type money so they could use him off the bench. if he did that then lots of teams might want him in a bench role.

at 8 mil per year??? there would be no demand in trade and likely not a single taker in the league in open free agency.

at 10-12 mil?? give me a break

if he were under contract in the 5-6 million dollar range for a couple years.... then maybe i could see a team biting.
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (Day 24) 

Post#1565 » by Bucksmaniac » Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:05 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:
mlloyd10 wrote:I dont hate Jennings, Im just realistic. I have 1 rookie equal to Jennings and yes i believe that burke is on par with him.


Pure speculation until we see Burke play an actual NBA game. I'm not defending Jennings at all but in no way is Jameer Nelson an equal player to him. He's the worst starting PG in the league and it's not even close. I'd take an expired can of string beans as my PG before I take Jameer...


Statistically they are actually pretty similar, and at least Jameer has proven to be a solid point guard in the past. Obviously right now I'd take Jennings over him due to their career trajectories/age, but all the starting point guards on that list have pretty much had a better season at some point in their career than BJ's best so far. Not a good thing.
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (Day 24) 

Post#1566 » by MrPerfect1 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:07 pm

I'd love to see Jennings on LAL. I wonder what the Over/Under would be on # of games before Kobe kills him.

Amazingly, demand for PG league wide will be less next year. Even if Nash retires, there could be 4 PGs taken in the Top 10 picks next year (Marcus Smart, Dante Exum, Semaj Christon, Andrew Harrison)
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (Day 24) 

Post#1567 » by ConoverBucks » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:20 pm

mlloyd10 wrote:
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:
Better than Dragic, Chalmers, Nelson, and Burke IMO. The rest is pretty accurate. Teague is also clearly better.


none of the teams that those players play for would rather have jennings. better is relative. i dont think theres a single team that would rather have jennings than the guy theyve got other than MAYBE the knicks.


Thats my point, Jennings doesn't "move the needle" on any team except the Pistons and 76ers


Sixers? They're rebuilding and just drafted MCW. They don't need or want Jennings.
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (Day 24) 

Post#1568 » by HurricaneKid » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:17 pm

Walker, MCW, Knight, Burke are all on rookie deals so while arguments could easily be made that BJ is better, they aren't comparable because BJ wants 10M over what those guys are making.

I would argue he is a 3rd string PG on Pho before I would argue there are 3 teams that would rather have him at his price than what they have in place (NYK who are over the apron and can't even DO a SnT and Detroit who may be giving up on their rookie deal PG but doesn't seem too int in BJ).

I keep seeing Chalmers and Hill as worse than him. Does anyone really think that Miami or In would be better with BJ over those two?
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (Day 24) 

Post#1569 » by mlloyd10 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:25 am

Almost-A-Yooper wrote:
mlloyd10 wrote:
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
none of the teams that those players play for would rather have jennings. better is relative. i dont think theres a single team that would rather have jennings than the guy theyve got other than MAYBE the knicks.


Thats my point, Jennings doesn't "move the needle" on any team except the Pistons and 76ers


Sixers? They're rebuilding and just drafted MCW. They don't need or want Jennings.


Thats not what i said, I said "move the needle"...Never said they would want him
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (Day 24) 

Post#1570 » by Max Green » Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:04 am

The market is pretty much dried up for Brandon this offseason unless another starting PG suffers a season ending injury. 4y/$32m-$34m should be enough to seal the deal while also keeping his contract tradable if things don't work out.
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (Day 24) 

Post#1571 » by LUKE23 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:05 am

Really have a bad feeling this bum is going to be our PG for the next few years.
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (Day 24) 

Post#1572 » by ampd » Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:12 am

LUKE23 wrote:Really have a bad feeling this bum is going to be our PG for the next few years.


Nobody is going to offer him $8m because they know we'd match and nobody is going to overpay him so we don't. Same reason Teague had no suitors other than us and got only $8m.

There are also very few win now teams who could justify trading for BJ at the level of contract he wants.

We are unfortunately the most desperate team, with the most cap room, and the most leverage to get it done. Which probably means we do.
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (Day 24) 

Post#1573 » by Baddy Chuck » Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:15 am

ampd wrote:Nobody is going to offer him $8m because they know we'd match and nobody is going to overpay him so we don't. Same reason Teague had no suitors other than us and got only $8m.

I think nobody is going to offer him $8 million because he isn't worth it. There is literally no downside to offering him a contract if the worst that can happen is it be matched this late in free agency. Fact is, the market was set and that being there really is no market. He wasn't even our first choice, and we only offered our first choice that much, how would it make sense that we value Jennings that much?
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (Day 24) 

Post#1574 » by ampd » Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:21 am

Baddy Chuck wrote:
ampd wrote:Nobody is going to offer him $8m because they know we'd match and nobody is going to overpay him so we don't. Same reason Teague had no suitors other than us and got only $8m.

I think nobody is going to offer him $8 million because he isn't worth it. There is literally no downside to offering him a contract if the worst that can happen is it be matched this late in free agency. Fact is, the market was set and that being there really is no market. He wasn't even our first choice, and we only offered our first choice that much, how would it make sense that we value Jennings that much?


Well, that would be true of any RFA and yet you don't often see them get a ton of offers.

As for why, well, because our owner has said he won't drop win now, and we can't plausibly think we are going to make the playoffs with Ridnour and Ish at PG and Delfino at SF. And there are no plausible starters left for us to make offers to, and also not many real trade candidates since we had a whole roster of expirings, and the guys left are mostly either too good or too bad to trade for a middling stopgap PG.
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (Day 24) 

Post#1575 » by jakecronus8 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:25 am

To the people who'd be excited for a Rudy Gay acquisition

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNooFSsyEP4[/youtube]

Thanks. Needed a reason to post this.
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (Day 24) 

Post#1576 » by Baddy Chuck » Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:40 am

ampd wrote:Well, that would be true of any RFA and yet you don't often see them get a ton of offers.

How do we know what offers these guys are getting? Jennings has such an inflated view of himself do you really think he was even calling back teams that would have potentially offered him $8 million a year early in free agnecy? Do you think teams were even wasting their time early in free agency with what they thought he was worth knowing what Jennings and his agent actually think he deserved?I don't. Teams aren't going to sit and wait through free agency to hope an egomaniac like Brandon Jennings, who isn't very good at basketball, to come down on his ridiculous number. I'd say a good 95% of "good" restricted free agents get offers (that are often matched) or they get extensions before they are even up for free agency. Obviously there are a few exceptions to the rule but when a guy like Jennings or Mayo doesn't get a huge contract he wants, I'm sure it isn't because teams weren't willing to offer them money because they were restricted, it's likely because they aren't as good as the money they wanted to sign an offer sheet. This isn't a one way thing. A team can offer a contract and a player doesn't accept it. It isn't like a team offers Jennings one dollar and since thats the first offer the Bucks can match, Jennings has to accept the offer as well.
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (Day 24) 

Post#1577 » by ampd » Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:44 am

What I mean is that, for example, Roy HIbbert would have been a great pickup for a team like the Bobcats. But you don't really ever see those teams even rumored to be making max offers to guys like that because there just isn't any positive in making the offer and then either being refused or having it matched when the chances of it working are so low, but there is a negative perception in making the offer when it doesn't work, as we are seeing with the offer that Hammond made to Teague.

Its rare for a team to make a 'reasonable' offer to another team's restriced FA because its futile, and it makes you look bad, on top of holding up the rest of your plans on a long shot. There needs to be some incentive for the other team not to match for guys to generate a lot of interest.
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (Day 24) 

Post#1578 » by breakchains » Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:49 am

completely disagree with the notion that 4/32 is a "movable contract" for Jennings. There are still people who don't see how low his value actually is I see. No team is going to pay 8M for a bottom of the barrel starter. 4/32 for Jennings is an absolute disaster. Any such contract will haunt the team for the entire length of it.
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (Day 24) 

Post#1579 » by Baddy Chuck » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:01 am

ampd wrote:What I mean is that, for example, Roy HIbbert would have been a great pickup for a team like the Bobcats. But you don't really ever see those teams even rumored to be making max offers to guys like that because there just isn't any positive in making the offer and then either being refused or having it matched when the chances of it working are so low, but there is a negative perception in making the offer when it doesn't work, as we are seeing with the offer that Hammond made to Teague.

Its rare for a team to make a 'reasonable' offer to another team's restriced FA because its futile, and it makes you look bad, on top of holding up the rest of your plans on a long shot. There needs to be some incentive for the other team not to match for guys to generate a lot of interest.

And what I'm saying is GOOD restricted free agents almost always get offered a deal, whether that be fair, above average or just maxed out.

When you start talking about guys who aren't necessarily good, they go without contracts. The biggest two examples of this are Jennings and Mayo. Both thought they were worth way more then potential suitors and could both have ended playing for much less then they wanted to coming off their rookie years. Guys like Teague or even Ryan Anderson accepted the fact that the market was down and took the best offer. Either teams aren't interested in Jennings, or he's still an idiot and asking for too much. The perception that teams are "scared" to offer RFA's because they will likely be matched and they'll "look dumb" is a horrible argument to why Jennings hasn't gotten an offer.

A guy like Hibbert did get the max, whats to say other teams wouldn't have offered it? When Hibbert says he's going to sign the max offer sheet with Portland when the memorandum ends what is the point of Charlotte even offering it? There is none. It isn't because Indy is just going to match it, it's because another team has already offered it and he said he is signing with them.
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Re: The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (Day 24) 

Post#1580 » by ampd » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:16 am

Baddy Chuck wrote:
ampd wrote:What I mean is that, for example, Roy HIbbert would have been a great pickup for a team like the Bobcats. But you don't really ever see those teams even rumored to be making max offers to guys like that because there just isn't any positive in making the offer and then either being refused or having it matched when the chances of it working are so low, but there is a negative perception in making the offer when it doesn't work, as we are seeing with the offer that Hammond made to Teague.

Its rare for a team to make a 'reasonable' offer to another team's restriced FA because its futile, and it makes you look bad, on top of holding up the rest of your plans on a long shot. There needs to be some incentive for the other team not to match for guys to generate a lot of interest.

And what I'm saying is GOOD restricted free agents almost always get offered a deal, whether that be fair, above average or just maxed out.


I agree, although the deal is almost always above average or maxed out when its from a team other than the one the player is coming from.

And I'd agree with you that maybe the Bobcats would offer it, but the truth is that pretty much never actually happens.

Mediocre RFAs don't get tons of offers though, because they aren't worth overpaying for, are almost always worth more to the team that drafted them, and other reasons.

If Jennings lack of offers is indicative of anything, its that other teams don't feel he has much upside left and/or agree with the majority of this board that his attitude is a problem. They could easily be right on both counts since its plain that his attitude has affected his play the last 2 seasons, and easily may have cost the Bucks enough wins to get to the 6 or 7 seed this past season or the playoffs the season before.

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