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SUNS will be worst team in the NBA 2013-14

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Re: SUNS will be worst team in the NBA 2013-14 

Post#61 » by jcsunsfan » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:50 am

phrazbit wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:It's safe to say that this team will be better than expectations this year, perhaps much better. It's hard to have lower expectations than the prevailing.


Thats not a safe bet. If Scola and Gortat get traded then what happens with this team? It will practically be a summer league squad.

Too many people are envisioning this team as currently constructed when making their projection. Unless you think this is somehow a playoff team then you should fully expect the roster to get blown up during the season. They are not going to keep an expiring Gortat and easily moved Scola on board a team on pace to win 30 games.


When the expectation is the bottom two the odds say otherwise.
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Re: SUNS will be worst team in the NBA 2013-14 

Post#62 » by RunSunRun » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:51 am

SUN wrote:I'm thinking our floor would be the 8th pick? Our peak, maybe 16th, 17th.


No one will ever accuse you of being a pessimist at the very least. :D

I don't think the Suns are the worst team in the league, but I'm fairly sure we will not be competing out West. It seems like the Western Conference is even more stacked than last year. That 6th-8th seed in the West is looking to be a dogfight all year long.

Also, like ATTL said, we will be cheering on the T-Wolves to get that 6-8th spot in the Western Conference, preferably the 8th spot for the slightly better pick, but I honestly can't complain if its a few spots later in the draft.
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Re: SUNS will be worst team in the NBA 2013-14 

Post#63 » by bigfoot » Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:40 am

phrazbit wrote:
SUN wrote:I'm thinking our floor would be the 8th pick? Our peak, maybe 16th, 17th.


At worst the 8th pick? Honestly? There are 7 teams you think the Suns are beyond a doubt better than?

I think just about an unbiased source would say there are ZERO roster the Suns are clearly more talented than and that, at the absolute best, they might end up with 30 wins.


I think there are teams the Suns can compete with which include

Jazz
Kings
Lakers
Wolves
Pelicans
Blazers
Magic
Wizards
Bobcats
Hawks
Bucks
Pistons
Cavs
Raptors
Sixers
Celtics
Mavericks

That's seventeen teams. If we beat them all twice that's 34 wins. Throw in a few surprise wins against playoff level teams like we had last year against Memphis, Clippers, etc and mid-thirties is possible. Of course we could only win half those games and be around 17 wins (definitely one of the bottom three teams).

I'm more inclined to believe Horny and the new infusion of athleticism will payoff with more wins this year. I was really surprised how good the offensive fg% and 3pt% numbers were for the Summer League Suns. I want to see how Horny's offensive system translates with the veterans (Gortat, Dragic, Bledsoe, Scola, Butler, Brown, Lee, Frye, Beasley). I fully expect the Suns to be leaps and bounds better on defense too.
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Re: SUNS will be worst team in the NBA 2013-14 

Post#64 » by SunZel » Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:57 am

If the Suns were the worst team in the league i would be very disappointed...That would mean we were worse than the SIXERS! I mean cmon look at their roster...There just no way Suns will have a worse record than them. Kings also.
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Re: SUNS will be worst team in the NBA 2013-14 

Post#65 » by phrazbit » Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:39 am

Kings have a lot more talent than we do.

And bigfoot, for the Suns to take two from each of those teams it involves sweeping every Eastern team you mention and taking 2 of 3 against most non-divisional west teams on the list. That is not remotely realistic.

And... for like the 20th time, even your optimistic projection is for roughly 34 wins... you think McD would keep a team on pace for 34 wins together as the deadline nears? Not... a... chance... in... hell...

It blows me away that anyone thinks this team will stay intact throughout the year.
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Re: SUNS will be worst team in the NBA 2013-14 

Post#66 » by Dragic13 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:12 pm

Dragic said we will get 45 wins. 8-)
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Re: SUNS will be worst team in the NBA 2013-14 

Post#67 » by rsavaj » Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:36 pm

Worst team in the league? Nah.

In the West? Perhaps.
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Re: SUNS will be worst team in the NBA 2013-14 

Post#68 » by Jarlaxle0204 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:44 pm

If this team is not top 5 worst in the league by the end of the year I would honestly be shocked and I'm sure it would have more to do with injuries from other teams than this team being any good.
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Re: SUNS will be worst team in the NBA 2013-14 

Post#69 » by jcsunsfan » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:25 pm

Dragic, Bledsoe, Gortat, Len, Goodwin. Young talent with promise. Young talent can really surprise at times. I have seen it before, especially with an uptempo team. Young teams like that get wins in the regular season against vet teams that are saving themselves for the playoffs.

This team is better than last year, and they had wins over the San Antonio, Memphis and others. I am not saying that this team is going to be great or anything, but when expectations are that they will be bottom two in the league, well, you just don't have to try very hard to beat that, especially with so much tanking going on.

BTW, as I have explored trade options around the league, there are some pretty bad rosters out there.
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Re: SUNS will be worst team in the NBA 2013-14 

Post#70 » by Phystic » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:46 pm

SunZel wrote:If the Suns were the worst team in the league i would be very disappointed...That would mean we were worse than the SIXERS! I mean cmon look at their roster...There just no way Suns will have a worse record than them. Kings also.



This is a joke right? Why wouldn't we be better than the Kings? There team is looking better than last year and also have a happier Cousins which is huge. I don't see why you'd think "there is just no way" we are worse than them.

Only teams I see being worse the Suns are: Sixers . POSSIBLY : Celtics(depending on Rondos return date), Utah(depending on how fast their youth improve), Charlotte(depends on Big A's Impact), Pelicans(depends on how well they mesh), Milwaukee(a lot of ifs here), Sacramento(always volatile and still young) and Dallas(another year older and bad offseason).

That's 7 teams I'd say that are worse/as good as we are(with Gortat and Scola).
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Re: SUNS will be worst team in the NBA 2013-14 

Post#71 » by SunZel » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:15 pm

Phystic wrote:
SunZel wrote:If the Suns were the worst team in the league i would be very disappointed...That would mean we were worse than the SIXERS! I mean cmon look at their roster...There just no way Suns will have a worse record than them. Kings also.



This is a joke right? Why wouldn't we be better than the Kings? There team is looking better than last year and also have a happier Cousins which is huge. I don't see why you'd think "there is just no way" we are worse than them.

Only teams I see being worse the Suns are: Sixers . POSSIBLY : Celtics(depending on Rondos return date), Utah(depending on how fast their youth improve), Charlotte(depends on Big A's Impact), Pelicans(depends on how well they mesh), Milwaukee(a lot of ifs here), Sacramento(always volatile and still young) and Dallas(another year older and bad offseason).

That's 7 teams I'd say that are worse/as good as we are(with Gortat and Scola).

Okay, we wont DEFINITELY be better than the kings but, they did not get better. Basically all they did is swap Greivis Vasquez for Tyreke Evans. I doubt that makes much difference, if at all.
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Re: SUNS will be worst team in the NBA 2013-14 

Post#72 » by Jarlaxle0204 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:47 pm

They did get McLemore too. A really good spot up shooter for Cousins to kick it out to after the double team for some easy 3 pointers. Our team still has no one that can actually shoot the ball.
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Re: SUNS will be worst team in the NBA 2013-14 

Post#73 » by RaisingArizona » Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:14 am

McC shot like 30% from the field in summer league. I wouldn't say he can shoot, at least now.
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Re: SUNS will be worst team in the NBA 2013-14 

Post#74 » by Amen316 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:46 am

So it was news worthy to ESPN and they cited Kevin Pelton.
I cited people I knew in Vegas without calling them out either way run with own opinions here is the articles
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1264933&start=60
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Re: SUNS will be worst team in the NBA 2013-14 

Post#75 » by Big_C_KU » Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:38 pm

It isn't in the Suns culture to suck but if you're going to be really bad then this is the year. If you can get a top 5 pick again then you're guaranteed to get a player with tremendous potential. You already have some young players with, potential in Bledsoe, Goodwin, and Len. Also have the Morris Twins who will be solid rotation players. The next two drafts are loaded with big time talent. Not a bad time to be really bad.
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Re: SUNS will be worst team in the NBA 2013-14 

Post#76 » by Phystic » Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:00 am

SunZel wrote:
Phystic wrote:
SunZel wrote:If the Suns were the worst team in the league i would be very disappointed...That would mean we were worse than the SIXERS! I mean cmon look at their roster...There just no way Suns will have a worse record than them. Kings also.



This is a joke right? Why wouldn't we be better than the Kings? There team is looking better than last year and also have a happier Cousins which is huge. I don't see why you'd think "there is just no way" we are worse than them.

Only teams I see being worse the Suns are: Sixers . POSSIBLY : Celtics(depending on Rondos return date), Utah(depending on how fast their youth improve), Charlotte(depends on Big A's Impact), Pelicans(depends on how well they mesh), Milwaukee(a lot of ifs here), Sacramento(always volatile and still young) and Dallas(another year older and bad offseason).

That's 7 teams I'd say that are worse/as good as we are(with Gortat and Scola).

Okay, we wont DEFINITELY be better than the kings but, they did not get better. Basically all they did is swap Greivis Vasquez for Tyreke Evans. I doubt that makes much difference, if at all.



That's all? A PG that can actually play PG and subtracted a player that holds the team back with his decision making and ball hogging? Oh and they added McLemore, LMaM, and Landry. I think they have made a nice step. The most important of which is making Cousins happier.

Explain to me how the Suns are a better team than the Kings? Our team is a mish mash of young players and unhappy players. All signs point to Gortat not ending the season with us. Scola was just moved(as expected), Butler I seriously doubt is happy about contending from a contender(if you call LAC that) to a bottom feeder.

Don't get me wrong, our team has had a GREAT offseason IMO. But we are building for the future and simply don't have a good team.
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Re: SUNS will be worst team in the NBA 2013-14 

Post#77 » by SunZel » Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 am

Phystic wrote:
SunZel wrote:
Phystic wrote:

This is a joke right? Why wouldn't we be better than the Kings? There team is looking better than last year and also have a happier Cousins which is huge. I don't see why you'd think "there is just no way" we are worse than them.

Only teams I see being worse the Suns are: Sixers . POSSIBLY : Celtics(depending on Rondos return date), Utah(depending on how fast their youth improve), Charlotte(depends on Big A's Impact), Pelicans(depends on how well they mesh), Milwaukee(a lot of ifs here), Sacramento(always volatile and still young) and Dallas(another year older and bad offseason).

That's 7 teams I'd say that are worse/as good as we are(with Gortat and Scola).

Okay, we wont DEFINITELY be better than the kings but, they did not get better. Basically all they did is swap Greivis Vasquez for Tyreke Evans. I doubt that makes much difference, if at all.



That's all? A PG that can actually play PG and subtracted a player that holds the team back with his decision making and ball hogging? Oh and they added McLemore, LMaM, and Landry. I think they have made a nice step. The most important of which is making Cousins happier.

Explain to me how the Suns are a better team than the Kings? Our team is a mish mash of young players and unhappy players. All signs point to Gortat not ending the season with us. Scola was just moved(as expected), Butler I seriously doubt is happy about contending from a contender(if you call LAC that) to a bottom feeder.

Don't get me wrong, our team has had a GREAT offseason IMO. But we are building for the future and simply don't have a good team.

Since when was Greivis Vasquez a great decision maker? Dude is a turnover machine. Also it was obvious Tyreke was not a pg so, they should blame themselves for trying to force him to be one. Ben Mclemore will Probably start, and as he is right now he is not better than Marcus Thornton so that will ultimately make them worse. Luc is a scrub and Carl Landry is basically a poor mans Scola. Cousins is happy all of a sudden now? How do you know how happy any of these players are? No one said the Suns are a good team.
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Re: SUNS will be worst team in the NBA 2013-14 

Post#78 » by phrazbit » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:07 am

I dont think anyone is calling the Kings a playoff team but they have clearly improved. Landry is worlds better than anyone they had on their bench last year. They gone from a cancerous ball hog at point to a guy who not only distributes but chips in across the stat sheet, Vazquez is an enormous upgrade over their crap PGs of the last few years, and turnover machine? He had the 9th best assist to TO ratio in the league :lol: Luc is an offensive scrub... but a better wing defender than anyone they've had in years. And not only have they considerably upgraded their talent but the ownership issues and the prospect of the franchise moving is no longer looming over as a non-stop distraction, that not only the players were forced to constantly answer questions about but the front office was hand-cuffed by the incompetence of the Maloofs.

And in comparison to our current roster? Its no contest. Our bench is laughable, we probably have the worst forward rotation in the NBA.

I would bet the Kings finish at minimum 5 games better than us in the standings.

Barring Dirk going down, Utah is the only team I can see battling us for the West cellar.
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Re: SUNS will be worst team in the NBA 2013-14 

Post#79 » by Phystic » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:57 am

SunZel wrote:
Phystic wrote:
SunZel wrote:Okay, we wont DEFINITELY be better than the kings but, they did not get better. Basically all they did is swap Greivis Vasquez for Tyreke Evans. I doubt that makes much difference, if at all.



That's all? A PG that can actually play PG and subtracted a player that holds the team back with his decision making and ball hogging? Oh and they added McLemore, LMaM, and Landry. I think they have made a nice step. The most important of which is making Cousins happier.

Explain to me how the Suns are a better team than the Kings? Our team is a mish mash of young players and unhappy players. All signs point to Gortat not ending the season with us. Scola was just moved(as expected), Butler I seriously doubt is happy about contending from a contender(if you call LAC that) to a bottom feeder.

Don't get me wrong, our team has had a GREAT offseason IMO. But we are building for the future and simply don't have a good team.

Since when was Greivis Vasquez a great decision maker? Dude is a turnover machine. Also it was obvious Tyreke was not a pg so, they should blame themselves for trying to force him to be one. Ben Mclemore will Probably start, and as he is right now he is not better than Marcus Thornton so that will ultimately make them worse. Luc is a scrub and Carl Landry is basically a poor mans Scola. Cousins is happy all of a sudden now? How do you know how happy any of these players are? No one said the Suns are a good team.


Vasquez averaged 3.2topg last year. Lebron 3.0, Holiday 3.7, Curry 3.1, Irvin 3.2, Rubio 3.0, etc. Steve Nash while on the Suns averaged between 3.3 and 3.8 turnovers every year, Guess he wasn't a good decision maker either. Turnovers don't define a players decision making. PGs can get credited a turnover because of their teammates. What does Tyrekes position have anything to do with this? I didn't say he was a PG I said his decision making and ball hogging disrupted their offense.

McLemore MAY start but I would guess he would start along side Thornton. Luc is actually a pretty good defender and rebounder at his position. And him not needing the ball benefits Vasquez, Thornton and Cousins. Landry's per36 last year were 17ppg 9rpg 54% and 82% (5 attempts a game) which is equivalent to Scola's stats except better percentages.

Cousins has been quoted, multiple times, that he wants to remain with the Kings. It's clear the Kings restructuring has been going better and the dust is settling from the massive amounts of stupid starting with the Coach and ending with the Owners. A new Coach + some new players + new front office + subtracting Evans = Positive results.


You're right, nobody said the Suns were good. But you said they were better than the Kings and I asked you why to which you did not answer.
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Re: SUNS will be worst team in the NBA 2013-14 

Post#80 » by SunZel » Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:34 pm

Even without Gortat for almost 2 months and they only finished 3 games ahead of us last season. I still think they didn’t get that much better where they are definitely better than the Suns. Bledsoe is a big upgrade over Wesley Johnson and Shannon Brown. Although, Markieff is not as good offensively as Scola he will provide better defense and spacing.

Some of it depends on the development of the young players. While the kings only have Mclemore and Cousins who have not hit their peaks, Suns have Len, Bledsoe, and the Morris twins. Bledsoe will obviously play better with more minutes, and the Morris Twins looked better and stronger in summer league. Cousins actually played better last season which, further calls into question the kings ability to develop young players. Tyreke’s production also slipped after his rookie season which does not bode well for Mclemore. Although, I can’t say we are much Better at developing the youngster’s, I think we have a new staff and the Kings have also had much higher picks to work with.

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