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Reports: Rangers scouting Jose and Edwin: Source (The Score)

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Reports: Rangers scouting Jose and Edwin: Source (The Score) 

Post#1 » by kavan » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:37 pm

Nice little tid bit

http://www.thescore.com/home/articles/1 ... ncarnacion

Not bad I think the Jays can def look to move these guys and maybe even R.A and look to make a quick rebuild happen with some good triple A prospects coming back. I think a position player (2B or someone else on the roster) can def help us out.

Not sure where we stand. I doubt Edwin has many more years of elite baseball left in him and Jose has slowly declined.
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Re: Reports: Rangers scouting Jose and Edwin: Source (The Sc 

Post#2 » by Gibby » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:43 pm

If we trade Jose and Edwin we don't plan on competing for 3-4 years at least while we restock the farm system.
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Re: Reports: Rangers scouting Jose and Edwin: Source (The Sc 

Post#3 » by dagger » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:48 pm

Gibby wrote:If we trade Jose and Edwin we don't plan on competing for 3-4 years at least while we restock the farm system.


Presumably, if we trade a big bat, we'd get high level prospects in such a trade. I don't see a team in the thick of a pennant race sending us their pitching ace. We'd be taking a step back, but adding an A-list prospect or two might make such a rebuild quicker and more interesting to watch.
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Re: Reports: Rangers scouting Jose and Edwin: Source (The Sc 

Post#4 » by Geddy » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:52 pm

There is no point trading either of them at this point. They aren't on bad contracts and they aren't old as far as sluggers go.
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Re: Reports: Rangers scouting Jose and Edwin: Source (The Sc 

Post#5 » by Gibby » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:55 pm

dagger wrote:
Gibby wrote:If we trade Jose and Edwin we don't plan on competing for 3-4 years at least while we restock the farm system.


Presumably, if we trade a big bat, we'd get high level prospects in such a trade. I don't see a team in the thick of a pennant race sending us their pitching ace. We'd be taking a step back, but adding an A-list prospect or two might make such a rebuild quicker and more interesting to watch.


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Re: Reports: Rangers scouting Jose and Edwin: Source (The Sc 

Post#6 » by dagger » Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:02 pm

Geddy wrote:There is no point trading either of them at this point. They aren't on bad contracts and they aren't old as far as sluggers go.


I don't expect it either, but there is no reason not to hear out offers. You never know when someone will overvalue something you have to the point of taking a massive contract like Buehrle and send out some good prospects.
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Re: Reports: Rangers scouting Jose and Edwin: Source (The Sc 

Post#7 » by Lateral Quicks » Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:48 pm

I don't understand why the default interpretation of a trade would be that they're rebuilding. If it's for the right package (say a great up and coming shortstop *cough* Profar *cough* + a good starting pitcher + prospects) I don't see how that makes the team worse, and could ultimately make it better.
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Re: Reports: Rangers scouting Jose and Edwin: Source (The Sc 

Post#8 » by Schad » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:19 pm

I'd trade Jose for something revolving around Profar, no matter our direction. We won't have many opportunities in our sporting lifetimes to plop a young superstar-in-the-making at shortstop for a decade, and it makes everything else easier.
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Re: Reports: Rangers scouting Jose and Edwin: Source (The Sc 

Post#9 » by Michael Bradley » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:41 pm

If you are looking for a deal with Alomar/Carter type potential, then getting Profar in a trade involving Bautista would qualify. It would be a ballsy move on AA's part assuming Texas would be willing to do it, but it's the type of move the Jays could do and remain competitive assuming they find a competent RF to replace Bautista.

Profar has the potential to be very, very good. If not him, then a smaller deal (i.e. not involving Bautista or Edwin) getting Odor in return would work for me as well. The Rangers have great middle infield depth in the minors and are set up the middle at the MLB level (Andrus/Kinsler) so it might be a good time to strike a deal with them.
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Re: Reports: Rangers scouting Jose and Edwin: Source (The Sc 

Post#10 » by JoeyBats » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:19 pm

Would Reyes be willing to be moved to 2nd base ?
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Re: Reports: Rangers scouting Jose and Edwin: Source (The Sc 

Post#11 » by Nolan » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:49 pm

Like others have said if the Rangers are willing to deal Profar i'd have no problem dealing either one of them.
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Re: Reports: Rangers scouting Jose and Edwin: Source (The Sc 

Post#12 » by Randle McMurphy » Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:21 pm

If the Jays have contending aspirations in 2014/2015, trading their best player to the Rangers for prospects probably isn't the best way to go about that. Doing so only really makes sense under a full rebuild where most of the rest of the core also gets moved. That time will come eventually, but I doubt it will be soon.
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Re: Reports: Rangers scouting Jose and Edwin: Source (The Sc 

Post#13 » by Schad » Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:28 pm

Randle McMurphy wrote:If the Jays have contending aspirations in 2014/2015, trading their best player to the Rangers for prospects probably isn't the best way to go about that. Doing so only really makes sense under a full rebuild where most of the rest of the core also gets moved. That time will come eventually, but I doubt it will be soon.


Perhaps, but if Profar comes good, shifting Reyes to second and getting a solid RF with Bautista's salary would make for a smaller dropoff than the vast majority of 'buy young' moves.
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Re: Reports: Rangers scouting Jose and Edwin: Source (The Sc 

Post#14 » by Griff83 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:38 pm

I dont understand why everyone thinks trading Bautista means were doomed and heading to 3-4 years of rebuilding. If Profar is as good as many scouts say, The team next year could be just as good or better with a few moves.

Trade Bautista for Profar/Alfaro
Sign McCann in the offseason
Sign one of Feldman, Halladay or Santana

Bautista doesnt look like the player he once was and we should sell now before he really starts to badly decline.
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Re: Reports: Rangers scouting Jose and Edwin: Source (The Sc 

Post#15 » by Randle McMurphy » Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:09 am

Schadenfreude wrote:
Randle McMurphy wrote:If the Jays have contending aspirations in 2014/2015, trading their best player to the Rangers for prospects probably isn't the best way to go about that. Doing so only really makes sense under a full rebuild where most of the rest of the core also gets moved. That time will come eventually, but I doubt it will be soon.


Perhaps, but if Profar comes good, shifting Reyes to second and getting a solid RF with Bautista's salary would make for a smaller dropoff than the vast majority of 'buy young' moves.

You'd be asking quite a lot of Profar and whoever this lesser RF would be to make up that production for 2014 and even that probably wouldn't be enough. That's some major value being given up and pretty certain value at that (even if Bautista is on a slow decline) on a team that doesn't have very many of those players at the moment. If they move him for Profar (or another talented player of that ilk), I'd be more comfortable completely changing directions with the entire group.
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Re: Reports: Rangers scouting Jose and Edwin: Source (The Sc 

Post#16 » by Schad » Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:21 am

Reyes moving to 2B eliminates the massive negative WAR we're carrying at that position, Profar would upgrade our defense at short, and right field is an easier position to fill than one in middle infield. You certainly could use it as a springboard to completely rebuild, but I don't think that it's a move that precludes competing next year, either.
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Re: Reports: Rangers scouting Jose and Edwin: Source (The Sc 

Post#17 » by Randle McMurphy » Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:41 am

Schadenfreude wrote:Reyes moving to 2B eliminates the massive negative WAR we're carrying at that position, Profar would upgrade our defense at short, and right field is an easier position to fill than one in middle infield.

You're assuming that acquiring Profar would lead them to immediately move Reyes off SS. It would seem to be the perfect opportunity to do so, but we all watched Vernon Wells man CF for this team for a few years when there was a far superior CF option playing to his left. It sucks, but a fact of baseball is that reputation/offense often keeps guys at positions they shouldn't play over younger guys. That's the situation the Jays find themselves in. I hope AA is better than his predecessor in that regard.


You certainly could use it as a springboard to completely rebuild, but I don't think that it's a move that precludes competing next year, either.

Competing in 2014 is already going to be hard enough with a 5-6 win player in Bautista already on the team. If he's gone, it's difficult to see an AL East winning core at all and even more difficult to find a reason to keep the rest of the core together.
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Re: Reports: Rangers scouting Jose and Edwin: Source (The Sc 

Post#18 » by Schad » Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:46 am

I agree that it's predicated on Reyes moving to second, and ceases to be as beneficial if he does not. But if they cannot see the problem that is Reyes' range, I'm at a loss.

And yeah, competing will be difficult with/without Bautista. I do think that adding Profar, moving Reyes and replacing the scrubs at 2B would probably net us a good 2-3 WAR, though, maybe more if Profar busts out. From there, we'd have $13m to replace the rest, and a better fallback option if it goes awry.
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Re: Reports: Rangers scouting Jose and Edwin: Source (The Sc 

Post#19 » by Avenger » Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:33 am

This might be a stupid thing to say but i never understand why shortstops whose range is declining are moved to 2B. Isn't range just as important at that position and the only significant difference between the two being the distance on the throw? I have no idea what the statistics say but it seems like based on common sense SS's and 2B's have to able to move similar distances to their left and right
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Re: Reports: Rangers scouting Jose and Edwin: Source (The Sc 

Post#20 » by Schad » Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:42 am

Avenger wrote:This might be a stupid thing to say but i never understand why shortstops whose range is declining are moved to 2B. Isn't range just as important at that position and the only significant difference between the two being the distance on the throw?


Fewer plays where you need the range to 'get around' the ball, I believe. At short, it's often not enough to simply get there...you have to beat the ball to the spot so that you can make a good enough throw to have a chance. At second, because the throw is much shorter, you can often make a play even if you simply knock it down.
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