MOzgovre-signswith Nuggets. Are you kidding me???????

[ujirifan]

Wojo reporting Mozgov signed for 3 years/14 million dollars.


While I'm happy to see one other returning 7 footer, it shouldn't have been Mozgov and certainly not for 3/14.

I guess that it was because they valued his ability to hit an occasional 15 footer over Koufos superior defense and inside moves.

Oh yeah> The reason why I had said that he would not re-sign with the Nugz is precisely because it was beyond my belief that they would offer him more than a one year deal, never mind what they actually are reported to have.

[DaFan334]

I think you are probably the only one that is going to be that mad about this deal. It's pretty reasonable for a 7 footer who is athletic and works hard. Team option on the third year is nice in case things don't work out. You must have Mozgov and Koufus confused defensively. Mozgov did a great job against Andrew Bynum a couple years ago in the playoffs and is by far a better pick and roll defender. His only real issue defensively is that he is a little too physical at times leading to foul trouble. He's a solid big, just got lost on the bench under one of Karl's favorites.

[pickIBL]

He was going to get this type of deal from some team on this planet. Just because Karl didn't give him his minutes doesn't mean other teams weren't going after this guy.

Bigs get paid in this league... I think not overpaying the wrong big is going to be key going forward for teams under this new cba ... I would much rather have Mozgov on this type of deal than what Splitter got paid.

What is slightly disappointing is that for this type of money we could have worked something out to get Ante Tomic.

[Kayariel]

i need medical assistance

[ujirifan]

I am most certainly not unhappy that they re-signed Mozgov. He is a clear cut improvement on Hickson as backup center. That said, I would much rather have kept Koufos and let Arthur go somewhere else. I am curious as to whether the Grizz insisted on Koufos rather than Mozgov or if the Nugz "braintrust" were the ones who preferred the way it went.

What concerns me is that KK thinks he know so much about basketball that he believes that McGee, who has played twice as many NBA minutes in twice as many games as Faried has, is the more likely one to finally begin to utilize his physical gifts to something resembling the max.

The money reason - 3 more years for 34 million compared to 1 year for 1.44 million - is obvious.

I don't know how many here who actually watched Faried last year agree with that great basketball expert, Tom Nalen, who emphatically pronounced on the air last month that the guy will NEVER be capable of developing an effective mid-range J. If you agree with Nalen, you have not played much, if any, bball.

[corona]

KK = Josh Kroenke? you've referred to a managing KK a couple times, and i get confused because kosta koufos isn't in charge of basketball operations.

i trust that they saw moz in practice on a daily basis for 2 years and know he's worth that 4 million and regular playing time....and they probably didn't agree with karl's reluctance to play him in favor of a player that wasn't any better.

What concerns me is that KK thinks he know so much about basketball that he believes that McGee, who has played twice as many NBA minutes in twice as many games as Faried has, is the more likely one to finally begin to utilize his physical gifts to something resembling the max.

The money reason - 3 more years for 34 million compared to 1 year for 1.44 million - is obvious.

the difference is that it takes far more skill development for faried to become an all-star level impact player on a basketball court than it does for mcgee because of his size/length. if he learns to simply go straight up, make better rotations and position himself better....he'll be a 16/13 player and a dpoy candidate. for faried to have that impact....he has to perfect his 15-18 foot jumper, get a little tear-drop runner type shot, become a lock-down individual post & wing defender, take charges from the weakside, continue to block shots and rebound like an animal....etc.

[pickIBL]

McGee the rim protector next to say Greg Monroe the half court offensive weapon... would be interesting up front along with Gallo and could mean deeper playoff runs.

[ujirifan]

I'm sorry corona but when I say KK I mean Kid Kroenke alias JoshBoy II - I'm assuming you also follow the Broncos and are familiar with JoshBoy I. I'd guess by now you should have figured out that I have little or no respect for him while you, apparently, are in sync with his every move.

As for a Faried/McGee comparison, I find your explanation very simplistic. I do agree that McGee has excellent size for a center while Faried is undersized for a PF and there is nothing he can do about that. He is, however, every bit as gifted with athleticism.

Equally important though, is that Faried has, to all appearances, demonstrated a strong desire to get better which in the extra 3 years McGee has been in the league I really doubt can say the same.

Also, it is only being realistic to consider McGee's physical and mental disabilities as quite possibly being detriments which are not considerations as to Faried's potential.

As far as Mozgov Vs. Koufos, if you actually have watched them both since they became Nuggets and do not understand that Mozgov having a somewhat serviceable 15 FT J is the only advantage he has over Koufos and that Koufos is clearly the better interior defender which was important last year because for all of McGee's sensational blocks - while not overlooking his league leading goal tends PerMPG - he was far more easily faked out of his shoes.

At this moment, I definitely subscribe to the belief that the Nuggets are probably a 45 win team when they could definitely, if left untouched, have won 57 again and been much tougher in the P.O.s

[corona]

I'm sorry corona but when I say KK I mean Kid Kroenke alias JoshBoy II - I'm assuming you also follow the Broncos and are familiar with JoshBoy I.

honestly have no idea what this all means.

As for a Faried/McGee comparison, I find your explanation very simplistic. I do agree that McGee has excellent size for a center while Faried is undersized for a PF and there is nothing he can do about that. He is, however, every bit as gifted with athleticism.

Equally important though, is that Faried has, to all appearances, demonstrated a strong desire to get better which in the extra 3 years McGee has been in the league I really doubt can say the same.

idk, they both attended the same hakeem camp last summer....and we saw pretty marginal improvements.

i haven't heard any reports of mcgee being lazy and not trying....or faried being such a gym rat that it's a given he'll become great. i don't think faried's an exceptionally bright player either....he just has a better on-court motor than most guys in the league.

furthermore i don't think any amount of athleticism can overcome the physical gifts mcgee has. that's just the nature of the sport. if you can have average awareness and understand some simple concepts....and you're 7 foot something with the longest wingspan in the league, you can dominate games on the defensive end. faried will likely never have that same impact.

As far as Mozgov Vs. Koufos, if you actually have watched them both since they became Nuggets and do not understand that Mozgov having a somewhat serviceable 15 FT J is the only advantage he has over Koufos and that Koufos is clearly the better interior defender which was important last year because for all of McGee's sensational blocks - while not overlooking his league leading goal tends PerMPG - he was far more easily faked out of his shoes.

i think moz & koufos are both solid defensively. i don't consider koufos the better interior defender. perhaps a little better rebounder. but his softness is a detriment, and while moz is soft in terms of injuries....i think in-the-moment he's a more physical defensive player.

At this moment, I definitely subscribe to the belief that the Nuggets are probably a 45 win team when they could definitely, if left untouched, have won 57 again and been much tougher in the P.O.s

you're basing this on the assumption that iguodala would have stayed for some reason.
that was not happening. he left for religious reasons. we offered him more money, and more years. keeping karl wouldn't have persuaded iggy to stay....since karl's liberal/spiritual, but not a bit christian. i really really doubt losing masai had anything to do with iguodala leaving either. you can feel free to make that argument, but there's no evidence they were that close of buds or ujiri had that much influence over iggy. the moment he was attending mass with mark jackson & the boys, and we lost to the warriors in 6....iguodala was gone.

so you have to base potential predictions for this season on two things....
-losing iguodala
-being out gallo until ~2014
and if you still think we win 57 under those circumstances while making no other changes to the roster, you're legitimately crazy.

they obviously wanted iguodala back at a reasonable price, as he's almost 30 and an athletic player that's probably on the decline at this point. once that didn't happen, moves needed to be made to keep the team moving in a positive direction. they didn't panic and sign monta ellis or brandon jennings or something stupid. they kept the team young, filled its weaknesses (shooting) and have stockpiled a team with great depth who are all on reasonable contracts. if a trade potential comes along to get someone like aldridge or another all-star type while packaging a couple pieces....i'm sure they'll be right in the race.

i really don't see the reason to freak out so much. if the team was like "lulz, how about 3 years, 24 million iggy?....oh, you don't want that? oh well. good luck. and we won't sign any shooters or fill our biggest weakness from last season. and we'll also let mozgov walk and move koufos to backup center even though he's been a complete no-show the past 2 playoffs. and we'll offer karl a 3 year extension so he's not a lame duck coach....because i really like the direction this team is heading with 8 of 9 first round playoff exits." then i'd be pissed & freaking out. but that's not the case.

[ujirifan]

honestly have no idea what this all means.

So, you don't follow the Broncos. JoshBoy I refers to Josh McDaniels the Broncos wonderkindhead coach who replaced Mike Shanahan. He was young and arrogant and it was all "my way or the highway" with him. Josh Kroenke is equally young and arrogant and, though apparently much more affable, just as intent with his rookie coach and new GM in place in doing it his way.


idk, they both attended the same hakeem camp last summer....and we saw pretty marginal improvements.

i haven't heard any reports of mcgee being lazy and not trying....or faried being such a gym rat that it's a given he'll become great. i don't think faried's an exceptionally bright player either....he just has a better on-court motor than most guys in the league.

furthermore i don't think any amount of athleticism can overcome the physical gifts mcgee has. that's just the nature of the sport. if you can have average awareness and understand some simple concepts....and you're 7 foot something with the longest wingspan in the league, you can dominate games on the defensive end. faried will likely never have that same impact.

I am really getting a strong sense of cognitive dissonance here. You mention that McGee did not show more than marginal improvement after working out with Hakeem who then predicted great things from him but still follow with the comment above indicating that all he needs to dominate on D is "average awareness and understanding of some simple concepts". So are you implying that it was somehow Karl's fault that McGee did not exhibit those qualities? Or might it be that he, at least basketball wise, is the one who is not that intelligent or because of his ADHD and/or asthma, cannot accomplish them?


you're basing this on the assumption that iguodala would have stayed for some reason.
that was not happening. he left for religious reasons. we offered him more money, and more years. keeping karl wouldn't have persuaded iggy to stay....since karl's liberal/spiritual, but not a bit christian. i really really doubt losing masai had anything to do with iguodala leaving either. you can feel free to make that argument, but there's no evidence they were that close of buds or ujiri had that much influence over iggy. the moment he was attending mass with mark jackson & the boys, and we lost to the warriors in 6....iguodala was gone.



OMg!!! Is this your SERIOUS belief?


Finally, I'd ask you to clarify or, in any way, validate your contention that Mozgov is a physically tougher player than Koufos as compared to me being able to point to Koufos career FG% of .580 to Mozgov's .500 being a big plus for him.

[corona]

I am really getting a strong sense of cognitive dissonance here. You mention that McGee did not show more than marginal improvement after working out with Hakeem who then predicted great things from him but still follow with the comment above indicating that all he needs to dominate on D is "average awareness and understanding of some simple concepts". So are you implying that it was somehow Karl's fault that McGee did not exhibit those qualities? Or might it be that he, at least basketball wise, is the one who is not that intelligent or because of his ADHD and/or asthma, cannot accomplish them?

it's certainly plausible.

i think the hakeem camp stressed primarily offense, post moves and such... which i said at the time was a mistake. he needs to focus his entire brain on the defensive end of the court to maximize his physical attributes, and not worry about offense outside of setting good picks and dunking the basketball. we'll see if shaw can get that defense and focus out of him. i have some confidence because i don't think it should take an extraordinary amount of improvement/time in the gym....etc...and especially considering how roy hibbert improved working with the indiana coaching staff. but that confidence will waver tremendously if he doesn't show marked improvement by the all-star break of this season.

OMg!!! Is this your SERIOUS belief?

i'm pretty sure that's widely accepted at this point.

what's your explanation for why he left? why he left millions on the table he'll never recoup in that 5th year? why he left a young and improving 57 win team that clearly wanted him back and made every attempt to negotiate a more than fair contract?

because he didn't like that karl got fired and masai wasn't re-signed...had questions on where the team was headed? you really think he left like 14 million on the table for that reason, and not because he spent time praying with GSW and liked their team atmosphere better, liked their coaches faith? considering they lost their top 2 bench players in the process of getting iggy, it's not like he left to go to a fundamentally better team.

ujiri expressed confidence in his re-signing. kroenke expressed confidence. connelly expressed confidence and said they had positive talks...etc. he still up and left.

Finally, I'd ask you to clarify or, in any way, validate your contention that Mozgov is a physically tougher player than Koufos as compared to me being able to point to Koufos career FG% of .580 to Mozgov's .500 being a big plus for him.

watching games?
koufos getting bullied around by andrew bogut like he's not even there.
mozgov putting up a fight against bynum in the playoffs.

and once again you exaggerate or misuse numbers. koufos career fg% is .549 while mozgov is .505

and ts% they're actually pretty close since moz isn't a terrible ft shooter like kk is.

[tstrick33]

Iguodala left because we insulted him on the fifth year of our contract offer. The fifth year was worth just 4 million dollars. It wasn't religious reasons, his god is the same with or without Marc Jackson.

The way the contract was set up, it implied that he has 4 year left in the NBA before Iggy becomes irrelevant. While we did offer him more money, that fifth year was the slap to the face that led him to GS, It was also Connelly's first mistake.

[corona]

"Mainly, the coach and the culture, the environment," Iguodala told the Mercury News. "I feel like they have a good culture there, a lot of great guys, great locker room. The way they've got those guys playing with such confidence, that comes from the coach. The way those young guys were playing against us (in the playoffs), that's confidence.

"I saw Klay Thompson running full speed down the court, caught the ball, took two steps and shot the 3. His feet weren't even set. That comes from coaching. I want to play with that kind of confidence."

if you can't read between those lines and see that confidence = faith, then i don't know what to tell you....

as far as the money is concerned....

Adrian Wojnarowski ✔ @WojYahooNBA

Denver offered Andre Iguodala a 4-year, $52M deal -- as well as 5-year scenarios -- before he accepted Warriors deal, sources tell Y!

[pickIBL]

If Trayvon Martin was white he'd have made it home to watch the NBA all-star game that night, and if Mark Jackson was a Muslim Iggy would be suiting up for the Denver Nuggets next year. I actually don't mind that he is gone as we had serious outside shooting woes, but I also understand why he is gone.

[ujirifan]

Okay, first let me acknowledge that in moving too fast in looking at Koufos stats, I grabbed last year's FG% of .581 and called it his career FG%. That said, it was Koufos only year as a starter and, taking the most SPG of his career, it represented an undeniable improvement.

As for their comparative difference in FT shooting, give me a break. For their careers - and this time I'm getting it right - Mozgov is averaging .07 FTM per 1.0 FTA to KK's 0.6 per 1.0. To bring this up as a consideration is ludicrous.

As for your for following comment, ' watching games?
koufos getting bullied around by andrew bogut like he's not even there.
mozgov putting up a fight against bynum in the playoffs."

Wow! If you are going to use just the G.S. series as a yardstick for performances, it could more easily be said that Iggy's 20 PPG on 50% shooting overall AND on 3s, 70% on FTs, 5.4 APG and 7.6 RPG PROVES he deserved a MUCH better contract offer from the Nugz.

And, as for your "reading between the lines" and interpreting "culture" to equate to religion, that is so much more than a stretch, it isn't worth considering. Show me a single article that talks specifically about his religion having anything to do with his decision before you make the unsubstantiated statement that "it is generally accepted".

Here is what IS more acceptable.

The 6′ 6″ small forward was very close to signing with the Sacramento Kings, and was reportedly hours away from going to the Dallas Mavericks, but in the end, it was the Warriors that Iguodala chose, despite the fact that they offered him less money than the other teams.
So what was the deciding factor? Why did he sign with the Warriors?

Iguodala says that it was Jerry West, who is currently a consultant with Golden State.

Golden State has been on my radar for a while now,” he told NBATV. “About four or five years ago, I had a conversation with Jerry West when he was still with Memphis, and he just picked my game apart. I didn’t realize that he watched me play…he knew everything about my game.

“I knew every organization that he was a part of had a lot of success, and he changed things around. So when he got on board with Golden State, that raised my eyebrows. That’s the kind of organization…they’re up next, because he’s a part of it and he’s always had success. So they have been on my radar for a few years.”

[corona]

That said, it was Koufos only year as a starter and, taking the most SPG of his career, it represented an undeniable improvement.

most centers in the league would see an increase in FG% playing in karls system where they don't have to do much but clean up garbage and dunk drop-off passes. mcgee improved 8% immediately. and was still up like 4% on his previous career average last season. nene was shooting in the high 50%'s to low 60's when he was playing big minutes with denver....then shot 48% for washington in 68 games last year.

As for their comparative difference in FT shooting, give me a break. For their careers - and this time I'm getting it right - Mozgov is averaging .07 FTM per 1.0 FTA to KK's 0.6 per 1.0. To bring this up as a consideration is ludicrous.

meh, you're provoking stats and sinking down to arguing over 3% fg difference on guys that take minimal shots that they're not even creating themselves. if that's in play, so is an 11% disparity in FT%

Wow! If you are going to use just the G.S. series as a yardstick for performances, it could more easily be said that Iggy's 20 PPG on 50% shooting overall AND on 3s, 70% on FTs, 5.4 APG and 7.6 RPG PROVES he deserved a MUCH better contract offer from the Nugz.

oh please, this is getting exceedingly juvenile. as if those were the only games i watched.
koufos is soft. everyone knows it. how he responded against golden state was just icing on the cake and his ticket out of town.
there's a reason his trade value around the league was darrell arthur. or am i to think the nuggets were just completely inept or doing memphis a huge favor by trading our great, super tough starting center to the grizzlies for a 3rd string PF a year and a half removed from ACL surgery. there's a reason we got him for essentially a 2nd round pick in the melo trade in the first place. he's an okay backup center....not much different than mozgov will be, they just bring slightly different things to the table.

it's nothing to freak out about. it's not a "demolition of the roster"

iguodala's performance was an outlier, obviously. koufos shrinking away was not.

And, as for your "reading between the lines" and interpreting "culture" to equate to religion, that is so much more than a stretch, it isn't worth considering.

not if you know that he was praying with the warriors and rev. mark jackson during our playoff series.

Show me a single article that talks specifically about his religion having anything to do with his decision before you make the unsubstantiated statement that "it is generally accepted".

i think reporters/columnists are too scared to go there. players are viewed as traitors or not caring if they party with another team before/after a game in a playoff series, particularly if they lose. but no one wants to touch it if it's religious. there's a reason for that.

i guess we can go back and forth with iguodala quotes....but he did say it was "Mainly, the coach and the culture, the environment,"

[pickaxe]

I wondered from the beginning why Iggy was pretty distant and detached-yet he still performed as part of a 57 win team. At the worst that is professional. Best of luck with GS except when we play them. If a player's not into the team, there's no reason to think keeping him would have helped keep the team afloat. On the same token, Kosta loved being on the team but was soft when it counted.

Both are gone.

The team's fire just increased. Only question is can the team control the fire.

[ujirifan]

oh please, this is getting exceedingly juvenile. as if those were the only games i watched.
koufos is soft. everyone knows it. how he responded against golden state was just icing on the cake and his ticket out of town.
there's a reason his trade value around the league was darrell arthur. or am i to think the nuggets were just completely inept or doing memphis a huge favor by trading our great, super tough starting center to the grizzlies for a 3rd string PF a year and a half removed from ACL surgery. there's a reason we got him for essentially a 2nd round pick in the melo trade in the first place. he's an okay backup center....not much different than mozgov will be, they just bring slightly different things to the table

Sorry, but "juvenile" is when you make the statement "koufos is soft, everyone knows it" which is just as FOS as your crap about reading between the lines on Iggy going to G.S. for religious reasons AND ignoring the article I post where HE says that Jerry West was the main reason he chose to go there.

Just acknowledge that you have complete faith in everything that JoshBoy II has done and we'll leave it at that.

[corona]

and you ignored mine where he was quoted as saying his main reason for leaving was the coach and the culture. both of which are founded in christianity. don't think even mark jackson or the warrior players would dispute that.

in the article you quoted iguodala says nothing about it being is 'main' reason for leaving as you just contended.....or even a/the 'deciding factor.' he says it put 'golden state on his radar' and 'raised his eyebrows' when they hired west. that's it. everything else was written by the author to accentuate an otherwise really boring piece with nothing to it.

fact is he said straight up, no paraphrasing or re-wording or exaggerating that the main reasons for going to golden state were the culture and the coach.

until we win a title i don't have that much faith in josh alone...i don't think he has that much basketball experience/knowledge to be making all the decisions. i would have much rather kept masai, based on his patience in the melo debacle and with his great drafts finds in faried & fournier. i wish kroenke had foreseen iggy leaving more clearly, and been more proactive in a S&T to get something more than randy foye and a tpe....but oh well. by working out in denver during the summer with the other players and continuing talks with the nuggets, he played that hand pretty close to his chest.

i don't think josh kroenke's worth nearly the outright hate & crummy nicknames that you spew though, given that all the moves he & connelly have made were some combination of being forced on them or simply correct.
-98% of fans who have followed this team for the last 8+ years and knew the situation thought that firing karl was the right thing to do, knowing his playoff failures, his lame duck status, the (length of) extension he'd demand, and the wealth of talented young coaches out there (of which we probably got the best).
-the koufos move was inconsequential. he's just not that good. and what they paid moz isn't that different.
-iguodala clearly wanted to move. once again....52 million over 4 years he turned down to go to GSW. if you pay him more than that to get him to stay, or even if he accepted that....it would be looked at as an overpay/bad contract, given his age, overall inconsistencies and inability to consistently hit a perimeter shot.
-signing hickson/foye/robinson are no-brainer good moves to collect talent on reasonable contracts that fill current roster needs and can easily be packaged in future trades to get a star or verge-star player.

[darivo]

-98% of fans who have followed this team for the last 8+ years and knew the situation thought that firing karl was the right thing to do, knowing his playoff failures, his lame duck status, the (length of) extension he'd demand, and the wealth of talented young coaches out there (of which we probably got the best).
-the koufos move was inconsequential. he's just not that good. and what they paid moz isn't that different.
-iguodala clearly wanted to move. once again....52 million over 4 years he turned down to go to GSW. if you pay him more than that to get him to stay, or even if he accepted that....it would be looked at as an overpay/bad contract, given his age, overall inconsistencies and inability to consistently hit a perimeter shot.
-signing hickson/foye/robinson are no-brainer good moves to collect talent on reasonable contracts that fill current roster needs and can easily be packaged in future trades to get a star or verge-star player.

Agree