SUNS will be worst team in the NBA 2013-14

[phrazbit]

The Suns were one of the healthiest teams in the league last year, even with Gortat missing 20 games. We were every bit as crappy as our record.

And I am not one of Scola's fans, but Morris would have to significantly improve to represent an upgrade over Luis. And Marcus Morris stinks.

[Twuan89]

The Suns were one of the healthiest teams in the league last year, even with Gortat missing 20 games. We were every bit as crappy as our record.

And I am not one of Scola's fans, but Morris would have to significantly improve to represent an upgrade over Luis. And Marcus Morris stinks.

Marcus Morris played pretty good in the summer league.

[jcsunsfan]

The Suns were one of the healthiest teams in the league last year, even with Gortat missing 20 games. We were every bit as crappy as our record.

And I am not one of Scola's fans, but Morris would have to significantly improve to represent an upgrade over Luis. And Marcus Morris stinks.

The Suns played without any will to win last year. They seemed to only have a passion about beating the better teams and when they did come out motivated. They were also clearly in preseason mode by the end of the year.

All I am interested in this year is seeing young guys develop. But when you get some talented young guns out there playing loose they are going to win more games than you expect. I think the record will be better than last year. 10th pick is what I would guess.

[Phystic]

Even without Gortat for almost 2 months and they only finished 3 games ahead of us last season. I still think they didn’t get that much better where they are definitely better than the Suns. Bledsoe is a big upgrade over Wesley Johnson and Shannon Brown. Although, Markieff is not as good offensively as Scola he will provide better defense and spacing.

Some of it depends on the development of the young players. While the kings only have Mclemore and Cousins who have not hit their peaks, Suns have Len, Bledsoe, and the Morris twins. Bledsoe will obviously play better with more minutes, and the Morris Twins looked better and stronger in summer league. Cousins actually played better last season which, further calls into question the kings ability to develop young players. Tyreke’s production also slipped after his rookie season which does not bode well for Mclemore. Although, I can’t say we are much Better at developing the youngster’s, I think we have a new staff and the Kings have also had much higher picks to work with.

Ok and the Kings had Tyreke miss time, Thonton miss time and had Keith Smart screwing up their rotations and players confidence every two days. Both teams have excuses. They have improved, we have gotten worse. So if they were 3 games better last year how does that not translate to better this year?

How is Eric Bledsoe a better option than Brown, Johnson or Dudley at SG exactly? Bledsoe who doesn't make threes, scores inefficiently, and doesn't get to the line enough to warrant no making threes? Oh and then you bring up the fact that he'd be undersized defensively which means Dragic and him would probably have to cross match, which usually causes problems in transition. I'd say it's about even. Bledsoe is touted due to his POTENTIAL not his current ability. He is not a CLEAR upgrade, at least not this season.

Thomas also hasn't hit his peak, and though Jason Thompson probably is what he is, he should not get consistent minutes which will show what he can do. He's a pretty productive player when that idiot coach of theirs wasn't screwing with him. And development? You mean Len who has had more ankle surgeries(2) than he has NBA games(0)? Or Marcus Morris who really showed NOTHING last year after coming to the Suns. Markieff had good moments, but he is hardly a defensive player. He has the abilities but countless times last year he looked lost on defense and had players simply over power him. He most definitely is not better defensively. Scola wasn't a skilled defender but he was a smart one and a hard worker. Morris does provide more spacing and more athleticism though. I like Markieff, I do, but I don't see him doing much for us this year(He will probably put up stats, especially when we move Gortat, but I mean as far as wins go).

I'm not sure what all this history and youth development has to do with the Kings being better than the Suns this year, which was the original argument.

The Suns, on paper, are probably one of the 3 worst teams in the league this year(maybe top 5 depending on opinions)

[Phystic]

The Suns were one of the healthiest teams in the league last year, even with Gortat missing 20 games. We were every bit as crappy as our record.

And I am not one of Scola's fans, but Morris would have to significantly improve to represent an upgrade over Luis. And Marcus Morris stinks.

The Suns played without any will to win last year. They seemed to only have a passion about beating the better teams and when they did come out motivated. They were also clearly in preseason mode by the end of the year.

All I am interested in this year is seeing young guys develop. But when you get some talented young guns out there playing loose they are going to win more games than you expect. I think the record will be better than last year. 10th pick is what I would guess.

You certainly are optimistic aren't you. Gortat will continue to mope around until we trade him I think(though he could ball his ass off to try and earn a better pay day too), Tucker is our ONLY wing defender. Bledsoe and Dragic will be a fun backcourt to watch but not a useful defensive one, unless Coach Horny runs a full court/ 3/4 court trap/press kind of defense and they can use their quickness and athleticism to bother the opponent. Morris looked outmatched in the paint last year. He is a decent weakside defender but he needs to add a little weight and get stronger, He got bullied quite a bit last year. And we have no idea what to expect out of Len.

Though I am excited about Archie Goodwin and think he could be really good for us.

[jcsunsfan]

The Suns were one of the healthiest teams in the league last year, even with Gortat missing 20 games. We were every bit as crappy as our record.

And I am not one of Scola's fans, but Morris would have to significantly improve to represent an upgrade over Luis. And Marcus Morris stinks.

The Suns played without any will to win last year. They seemed to only have a passion about beating the better teams and when they did come out motivated. They were also clearly in preseason mode by the end of the year.

All I am interested in this year is seeing young guys develop. But when you get some talented young guns out there playing loose they are going to win more games than you expect. I think the record will be better than last year. 10th pick is what I would guess.

You certainly are optimistic aren't you. Gortat will continue to mope around until we trade him I think(though he could ball his ass off to try and earn a better pay day too), Tucker is our ONLY wing defender. Bledsoe and Dragic will be a fun backcourt to watch but not a useful defensive one, unless Coach Horny runs a full court/ 3/4 court trap/press kind of defense and they can use their quickness and athleticism to bother the opponent. Morris looked outmatched in the paint last year. He is a decent weakside defender but he needs to add a little weight and get stronger, He got bullied quite a bit last year. And we have no idea what to expect out of Len.

Though I am excited about Archie Goodwin and think he could be really good for us.

Bledsoe is an excellent defender even against much taller players, to call him a "not useful" defender is a bit mind numbing.

You consider a 10th pick optimistic?

Gortat moping his way through a contract year is not likely. He is going to play his butt off. That guy understands money and what this season means for the rest of his life.

This is hardly optimism.

[phrazbit]

Marcus Morris played pretty good in the summer league.

Good for him, I am glad as a 3 year pro he could hold his own against Krespo McGillicutty, Jerko Caplarkapoo and the rest of the fringe D-Leaguers that make up 95% of summer league rosters.

[phrazbit]

The Suns were one of the healthiest teams in the league last year, even with Gortat missing 20 games. We were every bit as crappy as our record.

And I am not one of Scola's fans, but Morris would have to significantly improve to represent an upgrade over Luis. And Marcus Morris stinks.

The Suns played without any will to win last year. They seemed to only have a passion about beating the better teams and when they did come out motivated. They were also clearly in preseason mode by the end of the year.

All I am interested in this year is seeing young guys develop. But when you get some talented young guns out there playing loose they are going to win more games than you expect. I think the record will be better than last year. 10th pick is what I would guess.

I think they will be in preseason mode by late December this year. The team is trying to develop youth, build for the future and they have said as much.

We've already seen two key vets get shipped off, Gortat knows the writing is on the wall and has discussed it openly. Once he goes the Suns will be playing with ONE proven starter on the entire roster (two if you count Bulter but he probably wont start anyway). Our forward rotation is a joke, easily the worst in the NBA, our bench is horrifying, and with Gortat packing his bags center will likely be manned by either a rookie, or Miles Plumlee.

In terms of ability to win games NOW this is a worse team than last year. They will not win more than 30 games, I guarantee it... and I would not be surprised if they win less than 20.

They can have all the "will and passion" they want, it wont make a difference when virtually every night they are utterly crushed in terms of talent.

[Revived]

If the Suns were the worst team in the league i would be very disappointed...That would mean we were worse than the SIXERS! I mean cmon look at their roster...There just no way Suns will have a worse record than them. Kings also.

Sixers will be worse than us for sure. That team is making it obvious that their tanking. They don't even have a HC yet.

[Revived]

So it was news worthy to ESPN and they cited Kevin Pelton.
I cited people I knew in Vegas without calling them out either way run with own opinions here is the articles
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1264933&start=60

You just gave a link to this thread....?

[Revived]

People who think that we won't be a bottom 5 team next year simply need to look at the Orlando Magic from this past season.

They had the worst record in the NBA and they have more or about the same amount of talent on their roster as we do.

If the Magic finished last, what makes you think that the Suns won't be like them a be a bottom 5 or even bottom 3 team in the league?

The Suns lack of shooting is going to KILL them. Hornacek wants to run an offense similar to D'Antoni....without shooting...that's called either tanking or suicide. Not to mention that Len is still recovering from injury so he's probably gonna suck real hard for the first few months being rusty and everything.

Stop worrying, the Suns will have a top 5 draft pick next summer if all goes according to plan

[jcsunsfan]

This conversation is like jello. It just keeps moving all over the place. The thread title says the Suns will be worst. Some others have said bottom 2. Now it's moving to bottom 5.

My point is that if the expectation is bottom 2 they will likely exceed expectations especially in a year when the tank is on elsewhere. Finishing in the bottom 3-10 would be exceeding expectations based upon the original statements.

Not sure i have anything more productive to say on this. Maybe I didn't to begin with.

[SunZel]

Even without Gortat for almost 2 months and they only finished 3 games ahead of us last season. I still think they didn’t get that much better where they are definitely better than the Suns. Bledsoe is a big upgrade over Wesley Johnson and Shannon Brown. Although, Markieff is not as good offensively as Scola he will provide better defense and spacing.

Some of it depends on the development of the young players. While the kings only have Mclemore and Cousins who have not hit their peaks, Suns have Len, Bledsoe, and the Morris twins. Bledsoe will obviously play better with more minutes, and the Morris Twins looked better and stronger in summer league. Cousins actually played better last season which, further calls into question the kings ability to develop young players. Tyreke’s production also slipped after his rookie season which does not bode well for Mclemore. Although, I can’t say we are much Better at developing the youngster’s, I think we have a new staff and the Kings have also had much higher picks to work with.

Ok and the Kings had Tyreke miss time, Thonton miss time and had Keith Smart screwing up their rotations and players confidence every two days. Both teams have excuses. They have improved, we have gotten worse. So if they were 3 games better last year how does that not translate to better this year?

How is Eric Bledsoe a better option than Brown, Johnson or Dudley at SG exactly? Bledsoe who doesn't make threes, scores inefficiently, and doesn't get to the line enough to warrant no making threes? Oh and then you bring up the fact that he'd be undersized defensively which means Dragic and him would probably have to cross match, which usually causes problems in transition. I'd say it's about even. Bledsoe is touted due to his POTENTIAL not his current ability. He is not a CLEAR upgrade, at least not this season.

Thomas also hasn't hit his peak, and though Jason Thompson probably is what he is, he should not get consistent minutes which will show what he can do. He's a pretty productive player when that idiot coach of theirs wasn't screwing with him. And development? You mean Len who has had more ankle surgeries(2) than he has NBA games(0)? Or Marcus Morris who really showed NOTHING last year after coming to the Suns. Markieff had good moments, but he is hardly a defensive player. He has the abilities but countless times last year he looked lost on defense and had players simply over power him. He most definitely is not better defensively. Scola wasn't a skilled defender but he was a smart one and a hard worker. Morris does provide more spacing and more athleticism though. I like Markieff, I do, but I don't see him doing much for us this year(He will probably put up stats, especially when we move Gortat, but I mean as far as wins go).

I'm not sure what all this history and youth development has to do with the Kings being better than the Suns this year, which was the original argument.

The Suns, on paper, are probably one of the 3 worst teams in the league this year(maybe top 5 depending on opinions)

Okay okay, we will have to wait and see but, to touch on some of your points. Actually, i think Dragic is playing Sg and Bledsoe is playing pg. Although, being able to shoot is important for any guard, there are more successful pg's who are not good shooters than sg's. Even though they were in limited minutes and low attempts his shooting percentages were not bad at all. So we could chalk that up to to improvement or a low percentage of threes taken. Of course i would like to say he improved...The height and defense thing is overblown. Guards are not as tall as they use to be, and some of the taller guards are not good defenders. I think i would rather have someone who knows how to play defense opposed to someone just being taller. Also, I mentioned player development because how well the young guys are developed and play that could tip the scale.

[Phystic]

[quote="SunZelOkay okay, we will have to wait and see but, to touch on some of your points. Actually, i think Dragic is playing Sg and Bledsoe is playing pg. Although, being able to shoot is important for any guard, there are more successful pg's who are not good shooters than sg's. Even though they were in limited minutes and low attempts his shooting percentages were not bad at all. So we could chalk that up to to improvement or a low percentage of threes taken. Of course i would like to say he improved...The height and defense thing is overblown. Guards are not as tall as they use to be, and some of the taller guards are not good defenders. I think i would rather have someone who knows how to play defense opposed to someone just being taller. Also, I mentioned player development because how well the young guys are developed and play that could tip the scale.[/quote]


Ya, but Dragic will be the one running the offense. So defensively Dragic will be a SG(due to his size) offensively he will be a PG(better play maker than Bledsoe). Thus the cross matchups.

Ya there are successful guards who aren't great shooters. But in order to be a good player you need to have to be able to hit the shot. I'm not talking 40+% or making 2 a game or anything. But defenses shouldn't be able to double off you or play off on the perimeter as a guard(like Wall, Rondo, Rubio). Though last year Bledsoe was solid form 3pt range but over his career(3 years) he is only at 30%(vs the 39% last year)

Not sure what you're referring to with the size part. Bledsoe at just 6'1( he's probably closer to about 5'11) is a small guard. He is stocky at 190lbs but not sure how well he uses that weight. I'd like to see him try and guard some of the bigger guards. You don't think coaches will target him if he is on a SG like Gerald Henderson, Aaron Afflalo, Kobe, Joe Johnson, Klay Thompson, etc? Even if they aren't known for posting players up they will when they have that size advantage. Just like teams did against Steve Nash when we tried to switch him off the quicker PGs and onto SGs.