Preseason, have the Pacers ever looked better?

[Wizop]

Bird and Walsh couldn't give a hoot what Kravvy writes.

but Ron cared and I think his trade demand came directly out of reading Bob's criticisms.

[8305]

I too felt pretty good about the Pacers while watching "the Brawl" game. There were probably a couple of years where I felt as good about those teams chances of winning it all as I do now. But with hindsight there were far too many mentally weak players on that team to survive the pressure of an Eastern Conference Finals and a Finals series against the level of talent that you inevitably face. Besides that Detroit was simply better. Look at the matchups.

Billips/Tinsley (no contest)
Hamilton/Miller (by that time Hamilton was the better player)
Prince/Artest (Prince's length gave Artest fits)
R. Wallace/O'Neal (Wallace generally treated O'Neal like his little brother)
B. Wallace/Foster (Wallace was simply a better version of Foster)

In the 2003/04 playoffs they led the series against Detroit 2 games to 1 and had the lead in game 4 until Jermaine got a bad knee injury. Furthermore the game at the Palace got out of control bc the Pacers blew them out on their home court. I dont think theres any question; that the Pacers were the better team; they just had some bad luck.

Over the last couple of years we've held a 2 games to 1 playoff series lead against the Heat and hammered them pretty good during the regular season too. Doesn't mean we were better than them.

[Scoot McGroot]

and Reggie was very open in saying on the program I watched last night that the brawl team was not "composed of guys who [were] capable of putting individual egos aside and allowing the main drive to be team success." he said he tried to moderate unsuccessfully between Artest and JO. that was more of an admission than I'd ever heard before but I have long thought that JO was a clique leader in a divided locker room and I've often written that here when others have talked of bringing him back.

I agree 100% about the egos. The divided locker room was bc of Artest and O'Neal's disdain. But thats part of a coaches job to mesh the egos into a winner. They were both young guys at the time that needed mentors. Its a common trait on very talented teams to have ego problems. There are plenty of other examples of great teams from the past with bad ego problems but they found ways to success. Bird and McHale; Jordan and Pippen; Kobe and Shaq. More recent Westbrook and Durant have their problems and Scott Brooks holds it together.

Yup. Then, add in Tinsley, Jack, and surprisingly, Anthony Johnson. All those guys had huge egos that just got in the way of any team focus.

[Scoot McGroot]

Bird and Walsh couldn't give a hoot what Kravvy writes.

but Ron cared and I think his trade demand came directly out of reading Bob's criticisms.

Oh, it was coming anyway. Ron's been coddled in all he other cities and still been an on edge personality. We may have not traded him, but we wouldn't have been any closer to a championship because of his lack of mental focus.

[Wizop]

I remember seeing guys start to pass in one direction and then identify the player on that side of the floor and pull the ball back to pass the other way. the team was very split.

and then there was Fred Jones who couldn't drive or pass to his left no matter who was on that side of the floor.

and there was Isiah Thomas who should have been learning on the job but was never willing to acknowledge his own mistakes.

[8305]

It would be interesting to know if anyone internally voiced concern as we continued to add combustible personalities to a team already dealing with two immature stars who needed mentoring more than additional talent.

[23artest23]

Where is all this info on former Pacers coming from? I am a pretty hardcore Pacer (basketball in general really) fan and truly didn't know a thing or two mentioned such as the ol June bug being cancerous. It actually surprises me because AJ was terrible on the court and I wouldn't have figured he had the breathing room to be a cancer. I knew of the obvious problem guys like Ron, Sjax, and Co. For such a troubled group, they sure were talented. I'd love to see a documentary about the inside dynamics of that Pacer squad.

[Scoot McGroot]

Where is all this info on former Pacers coming from? I am a pretty hardcore Pacer (basketball in general really) fan and truly didn't know a thing or two mentioned such as the ol June bug being cancerous. It actually surprises me because AJ was terrible on the court and I wouldn't have figured he had the breathing room to be a cancer. I knew of the obvious problem guys like Ron, Sjax, and Co. For such a troubled group, they sure were talented. I'd love to see a documentary about the inside dynamics of that Pacer squad.

There were some allusions after AJ left that he was an issue in the locker room as he felt he should've started over Tinsley the whole time. Same reason I like Watson instead of Augustine, even if DJ wasn't an issue this year.

[23artest23]

Where is all this info on former Pacers coming from? I am a pretty hardcore Pacer (basketball in general really) fan and truly didn't know a thing or two mentioned such as the ol June bug being cancerous. It actually surprises me because AJ was terrible on the court and I wouldn't have figured he had the breathing room to be a cancer. I knew of the obvious problem guys like Ron, Sjax, and Co. For such a troubled group, they sure were talented. I'd love to see a documentary about the inside dynamics of that Pacer squad.

There were some allusions after AJ left that he was an issue in the locker room as he felt he should've started over Tinsley the whole time. Same reason I like Watson instead of Augustine, even if DJ wasn't an issue this year.

Wow...AJ sure was off his rocker on that one. I don't think AJ could have survived starting on a regular basis and as much as Tinsley usually left quite a bit to be desired, AJ was usually worse. I do remember AJ going nuts one time in the playoffs (vs NJ I think) but besides that, I'd say JT had 10 times the natural talent and deserved to start. JT wasn't a shooter (or was he LMAO) but he was an awesome assist man at times. It makes me laugh to think of AJ starting regularly. His play was usually atrocius. JT definetly didn't have it all together but in my mind, he was the better option to start and perhaps as important, JT didn't have the game to come off the bench.

Tinsley sure brings back some memories too. I remember him tearing up Washington for close to 20 assists in his rookie year. Guy had a ton of talent at the PG spot that couldn't really be taught but for whatever reason, he never did put it all together.

[Scoot McGroot]

Where is all this info on former Pacers coming from? I am a pretty hardcore Pacer (basketball in general really) fan and truly didn't know a thing or two mentioned such as the ol June bug being cancerous. It actually surprises me because AJ was terrible on the court and I wouldn't have figured he had the breathing room to be a cancer. I knew of the obvious problem guys like Ron, Sjax, and Co. For such a troubled group, they sure were talented. I'd love to see a documentary about the inside dynamics of that Pacer squad.

There were some allusions after AJ left that he was an issue in the locker room as he felt he should've started over Tinsley the whole time. Same reason I like Watson instead of Augustine, even if DJ wasn't an issue this year.

Wow...AJ sure was off his rocker on that one. I don't think AJ could have survived starting on a regular basis and as much as Tinsley usually left quite a bit to be desired, AJ was usually worse. I do remember AJ going nuts one time in the playoffs (vs NJ I think) but besides that, I'd say JT had 10 times the natural talent and deserved to start. JT wasn't a shooter (or was he LMAO) but he was an awesome assist man at times. It makes me laugh to think of AJ starting regularly. His play was usually atrocius. JT definetly didn't have it all together but in my mind, he was the better option to start and perhaps as important, JT didn't have the game to come off the bench.

Tinsley sure brings back some memories too. I remember him tearing up Washington for close to 20 assists in his rookie year. Guy had a ton of talent at the PG spot that couldn't really be taught but for whatever reason, he never did put it all together.

Yeah, I can see both sides, though. Tinsley was by far more talented. However, Anthony was willing to put off his partying and show up every day to work.

I'm firmly of the belief that the rumors were true; that Tinsley's constant missing of games for "sinus issues" were really just hangovers.

[Wizop]

my inside contracts often felt Tinsley's problems started when he was annointed the started in his rookie training camp and that he would have been better off if he'd been made to work for the position. he was a contributor last year so maybe he was finally forced to learn those lessons a decade later after sitting out.

[Scoot McGroot]

my inside contracts often felt Tinsley's problems started when he was annointed the started in his rookie training camp and that he would have been better off if he'd been made to work for the position. he was a contributor last year so maybe he was finally forced to learn those lessons a decade later after sitting out.

This had to be part of it. I imagine that Isiah was possibly one of the worst personalities ever to "nurture" a team environment. He did such a great job with the Knicks and FIU in terms of building a team first attitude.

[23artest23]

my inside contracts often felt Tinsley's problems started when he was annointed the started in his rookie training camp and that he would have been better off if he'd been made to work for the position. he was a contributor last year so maybe he was finally forced to learn those lessons a decade later after sitting out.

That makes alot of sense and I would not doubt it either. If I remember correctly, JT was the obvious choice to start from day 1 thus that is probably why the decision was made in that manner. It would likely have been a better choice to make him earn it.

I remember those sinus issues that seemed abundant. I would also concur that hangovers were the case and Sinus issues the excuse.

[Scoot McGroot]

Thought this was VERY interesting.....

Tim Donahue @TimDonahue8p9s

In the 569 Playoff mins @George_Hill3 played the point, the Pacers had a #2 Playoff O (106.2/100) and #1 Playoff D (95.0/100)
9:29 AM - 2 Aug 2013

Tim Donahue ‏@TimDonahue8p9s 1h

In the 2,485 mins @George_Hill3 played the point for Indiana, the Pacers had a top 10 offense (105.1/100) and a #1 defense (96.0/100).
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[mizzoupacers]

Preseason, only once have the Pacers looked better. Geez, guys, answer the question!

The only time I've thought, before the season started, that a Pacers team had a better chance to win a title was before the 2004-2005 season. At the time, I really thought that adding Stephen Jackson plus the maturity/experience gained from coming close the year before was going to put the Pacers over the top. Ha! The O'Neal/Artest team in the end was just a cruel fraud that couldn't stop itself from the "perfect storm" that gave Stern the cover he needed to ignore all prior league disciplinary history (hello there, Vernon Maxwell) and hand out suspensions of unprecedented harshness, i.e., a death sentence. Yep, still bitter.

The '98 team was in my opinion the best NBA Pacers team to date, but they were a big underdog to the Bulls. I like this team's chances of unseating the Heat better than I liked that team's chances to unseat Chicago. I hope that by this time next year I'll have a new "Best Pacers Team Ever" to write about.

[Wizop]

Preseason, only once have the Pacers looked better. Geez, guys, answer the question!

being an unrepentant optimistic Pacer fan, I always think we look great in August. but to answer your question, if Granger is healthy, I do think this is the best Pacer team since the ABA. I really like our top seven players (last year's starters plus Granger and Scola) and I don't mean that as a knock on the other six. in the history of the league there have been only a handful of teams that had six players each score 1,000 points in the same season. we have at least seven that are capable of doing so if they get enough minutes.

[Reaper_]

98 Pacers team is hands down better, though i love this team. Danny is question, Lances is question mark too. If Hibbert will play this year as he did in playoffs, this team has a chance winning it all.

[Durins Baynes]

Coming into the 04-05 season the Pacers were assuredly a more regarded team, seen as one of the top 3-4 teams in the NBA. I don't think they're really seen that way this year, nor were they last year, so it's an easy call for me.