Smith & Jennings both borderline all-stars

[Dre Drummond]

Looking back at a few articles from Feb 2012 they all seem to list both Jennings and Josh Smith as the biggest all-star snubs from the 11-12 season... I think that says a lot about what Dumars is doing here... Adding borderline all-star talent to a team that was lacking in talent from its players. Billups obviously has been there and done that and Datome was a league MVP last year so all around Dumars has added players who have played big roles on WINNING teams.

I think we now have 4 legitimate borderline all-stars that are top 20-40 players in the NBA which very few teams can say they have. We don't have a top 10 or top 15 player but we do have 4 guys that could put up big numbers for us in our starting lineup and have specific skill sets that could really make us one of the most young and exciting teams in the NBA... This is without a doubt the most excited Ive been for Pistons basketball since about 2008 which is saying ALOT.

[The_Irony]

Dumars is getting good players with chips on their shoulders..


ITS THE PISTONS WAY.

[DETermination]

I have a basketball boner that's how excited I am right now lol.

[Q00]

That's how he built the 04 team. Getting those players who produce at all-star levels for cheap, because for whatever reason the league sours on them at the moment. Both Smith and Jennings are being paid way under what their production suggests they deserve. We got steals on both.

[wallacex2jc]

Half of the time it's ok for Jennings, KCP or even Billups to jack up threes on this team because Drummond, Monroe and Smith are amazing offensive rebounders....

But the half I do want Drummond/Monroe to operate in the post for their points. I expect Drummond have a decent post up game (at least Dwight Howard kinda post game) in the next two seasons.

[Natopher]

For all those wondering if Brandon Jennings is good in P&R situations:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/bballsource/status/362452665617223680[/tweet]
If he just gets his right hand strong enough to finish around the hoop at a better clip I think he'll excel in Detroit. He's better than Knight in probably every aspect except maybe finishing around the hoop

[Minas]

For all those wondering if Brandon Jennings is good in P&R situations:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/bballsource/status/362452665617223680[/tweet]
If he just gets his right hand strong enough to finish around the hoop at a better clip I think he'll excel in Detroit. He's better than Knight in probably every aspect except maybe finishing around the hoop

I think Knight's a better defender.

[Natopher]

I would've agreed with you, but someone posted a stat earlier in one of the Brandon Jennings threads (can't remember which one or who so you'll just have to take my word for it unless they see this and back me up) that showed advanced stats have them nearly identical on defense. And if that's accurate, when you throw in Jenning's steals vs Knight's I'd say Jennings would have to be considered the better defender.

[DocRI]

Looking back at a few articles from Feb 2012 they all seem to list both Jennings and Josh Smith as the biggest all-star snubs from the 11-12 season... I think that says a lot about what Dumars is doing here... Adding borderline all-star talent to a team that was lacking in talent from its players. Billups obviously has been there and done that and Datome was a league MVP last year so all around Dumars has added players who have played big roles on WINNING teams.

I think we now have 4 legitimate borderline all-stars that are top 20-40 players in the NBA which very few teams can say they have. We don't have a top 10 or top 15 player but we do have 4 guys that could put up big numbers for us in our starting lineup and have specific skill sets that could really make us one of the most young and exciting teams in the NBA... This is without a doubt the most excited Ive been for Pistons basketball since about 2008 which is saying ALOT.

But in regards to the part of Dre's quote I emphasized, we COULD. And that, to paraphrase Robert Frost, could make all the difference.

Quite frankly, we can talk ad nauseum about Monroe, Smith, Jennings, Pope, our draft picks, and our free agent signings (and we should, and do, 'cuz it's fun), but our future hinges upon Andre Drummond. If he's truly the league's next dominant big man (i.e. the successor to Dwight Howard), then we have a legit chance at hanging more banners at The Palace if we build correctly around him. If he's not, then we're a perennial playoff team and nothing more. The simple fact is, teams that contend for NBA Championships have one of the VERY top players in the league on their roster. No matter how they got them, that's just a fact of life; in fact, the Pistons' 2004 Championship Team can be seen as the sole exception that proves that rule since Magic and Bird joined the NBA in 1979. And we really could have one of those transcendent players in Dre, 'cuz he could really be THAT damn good (like starting center on the 2016 Olympic Team good). Of course, having one of those players doesn't guarantee you jack; just ask Barkley, Ewing, Stockton, Nash, Howard, and (so far) Durant. But still, this is what I think separates us from most of the rest of the rebuilding, hopeful, up-and-coming teams right now — we may legitimately have one of THOSE guys. Give this team a couple of years and see how we all feel about Greg Monroe, Josh Smith and Brandon Jennings as COMPLIMENTARY stars around our true franchise player, Andre "The Giant" Drummond.

(P.S. — Yes, I'm trying to bring back the "Andre the Giant" nickname, and anyone who disagrees with me should get head-butted by a 7-foot, 500-pound professional wrestler!)

[HotelVitale]

^Just a note that advanced defensive stats for individual players can be pretty unreliable. The catch-all stat, defensive rating, often tells you more about how good a team defense is than the individual player. You have to look through synergy numbers and ppp to really gauge a guy's advanced D.

Also, for the OP, both Jennings and Smith played really well the first half of 2012. Their overall level of play for the 2012-3 season was on a tier below all star status. Smith regressed badly on offense last year, while 2012 was a career year, and Jennings took a small step back this year too. So I don't think it's fair to say either is all star level, but both should be above average starters. And Monroe and Drummond should be at least that as well.

[7r5ur]

Half of the time it's ok for Jennings, KCP or even Billups to jack up threes on this team because Drummond, Monroe and Smith are amazing offensive rebounders....

Generally, I believe that missed layups lead to put backs much more often because the interior defenders are reacting to the penetration. If they''re just hoisting threes without good ball movement, it's much harder to get offensive boards.

[HotelVitale]

I think we now have 4 legitimate borderline all-stars that are top 20-40 players in the NBA which very few teams can say they have...

I don't mean to steal any of your enthusiasm, but we gotta take it easy. It's more accurate to say we now have four young guys who are already in the top 35-80. Based on the last couple of years, a neutral observer might let Monroe crack the top 40, put Smith and Drummond in maybe the 45-60 range (with huge upside for Dre), and Jennings somewhere in the 80s. It'll be a fun team but they'd all need to improve a lot to be what you're describing.

No teams have 4 guys that are top 40. Maybe the Nets if you still really believe in Pierce.

[Q00]

Half of the time it's ok for Jennings, KCP or even Billups to jack up threes on this team because Drummond, Monroe and Smith are amazing offensive rebounders....

Generally, I believe that missed layups lead to put backs much more often because the interior defenders are reacting to the penetration. If they''re just hoisting threes without good ball movement, it's much harder to get offensive boards.

That's very true. Also because long jumpshots often lead to long rebounds, so our bigs won't be in as good of position to get to them. Fortunately for us though, Jennings, Billups, and KCP all excel at three's. So we won't have to worry about rebounds so much on those shots anyways, as they should be making a lot of them if they are to be left open with all the attention inside. Then where they aren't as good (finishing inside on penetration.) our bigs can easily clean up any misses in thoe cases.

[Dre Drummond]

I think we now have 4 legitimate borderline all-stars that are top 20-40 players in the NBA which very few teams can say they have...

I don't mean to steal any of your enthusiasm, but we gotta take it easy. It's more accurate to say we now have four young guys who are already in the top 35-80. Based on the last couple of years, a neutral observer might let Monroe crack the top 40, put Smith and Drummond in maybe the 45-60 range (with huge upside for Dre), and Jennings somewhere in the 80s. It'll be a fun team but they'd all need to improve a lot to be what you're describing.

No teams have 4 guys that are top 40. Maybe the Nets if you still really believe in Pierce.

Top 40 may be a stretch but top 50 isn't based on Drummond getting 32-36 MPG this year I think there is little top he ends up being a top 5 or 6 center in the NBA. Just expand out his per 36 numbers and also factor in his ability to anchor a defense.

Greg Monroe was one of just 10 guys last year to average at least 15 and 8 and one of only 3 to average at least 15, 8, and 3 assists. I feel like few would argue he isn't a top 40 guy. He was Detroit's only top 40 guy last season.

Josh Smith... shooting ability aside... has been an all-star snub on more than one occasion and statistically is a great SF defender. When he's at SF opposing SFs average a PER of below 10 which is absurdly good... Him scoring 15+ a game and adding in great defense and very good rebounding numbers for a wing is going to make him a top 5 or 6 SF for sure this year.

Brandon Jennings is the real question mark here... Of course he's played at a top 50 level in the past and perhaps most importantly he was considered to be the best player on a Bucks playoff team... That says a lot to me. If you look at players last year who averaged at least 17 PPG and 6 ASG its a very very short list... He really just needs to improve shot selection and decision making and he could certainly have a huge impact on our ability to move up from a 6-8 seed first round loser to a 4-6 seed with a legit chance to win in the playoffs.

[Dre Drummond]

Here is actually a link to a bleacher report article that lists what they feel is the current top 50 players from last season...

Brandon Jennings had a down year but was listed at #46.
Greg Monroe was listed at #40.
Josh Smith was listed at #29.

If Drummond simply produces at the same level as last year with more minutes and stays healthy... he is a top 50 player for sure this year... You said yourself Jennings had a down year last year but he was still considered #46.

I feel like we absolutely have the potential to have 4 players in the 20-50 range... as national media said 3 were there last year and we all know what potential Drummond has.

[Leaguepass]

Pistons look to me like the typical 40 win team that gets swept out in the first round. Talented and athletic but low IQ, questionable characters and poor fits. Smith and Jennings shooting from the perimeter will have you guys throwing stuff at the TV.

[Piston Pete]

We still need to add more shooting around our 3 bigs (JSmoove, Moose, Dre).

Jerebko/Siva for a bench SG and C would be perfect.


Jennings / Billups / Bynum
KCP / Stuckey / *SG*
Smith / Datome / Singler
Monroe / Smith / CV / Mitchell
Drummond / Monroe / *C*

[Heatin4]

For all those wondering if Brandon Jennings is good in P&R situations:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/bballsource/status/362452665617223680[/tweet]
If he just gets his right hand strong enough to finish around the hoop at a better clip I think he'll excel in Detroit. He's better than Knight in probably every aspect except maybe finishing around the hoop

I think Knight's a better defender.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOFYJzHqKgA[/youtube]

[Heatin4]

Pistons look to me like the typical 40 win team that gets swept out in the first round. Talented and athletic but low IQ, questionable characters and poor fits. Smith and Jennings shooting from the perimeter will have you guys throwing stuff at the TV.

With Rasheed and Billups on board that IQ is teachable to the younger roster. Its easy.

[Dre Drummond]

Looking at NBA players that averaged at least 15 PPG, 6 APG, and less than 3 TOPG you've got.

Damien Lillard (ROY)
Lebron James (MVP)
Deron Williams perennial all-star
Tony Parker - Finals MVP, perrential all-star and top 5 player
Ty Lawson - Top young PG in the NBA, underrated around the league
Chris Paul - Best PG in NBA
Brandon Jennings

That's it... There are only 7 players who averaged at least 15 PPG, 6 APG, and less than 3 TOPG. Look at the company Brandon is in and look at the people here who are acting like we got a horrible player.