Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 3

[Dat2U]

I see a lot of similarities b/w what Dumars constructed this offseason and what Ernie did last offseason in terms of building a defensive minded team that can't shoot a lick.

I'd expect the Pistons to be very competitive, grind out 35 ugly wins or so while being one of the best defensive teams and worst offensive teams in the league and miss the playoffs.

To be fair, the Wizards at least had two deadly wing shooters (Webster and Beal) once Beal turned the switch in January. Detroit doesn't have anyone like that. Their offense could get real ugly. Teams could seriously just play zone defense against them.

True but it wasn't like Ernie was counting on Webster, he just lucked into finding a 3&D SF on the cheap. And Detroit has their own high draft pick in Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, who they hope can be the shooter at the 2 that they desperately need. I suspect we'll see a lot of Kyle Singler at the 3 and Billups/KCP at the 2 in an effort to provide at least some spacing offensively.

[nate33]

I see a lot of similarities b/w what Dumars constructed this offseason and what Ernie did last offseason in terms of building a defensive minded team that can't shoot a lick.

I'd expect the Pistons to be very competitive, grind out 35 ugly wins or so while being one of the best defensive teams and worst offensive teams in the league and miss the playoffs.

To be fair, the Wizards at least had two deadly wing shooters (Webster and Beal) once Beal turned the switch in January. Detroit doesn't have anyone like that. Their offense could get real ugly. Teams could seriously just play zone defense against them.

True but it wasn't like Ernie was counting on Webster, he just lucked into finding a 3&D SF on the cheap. And Detroit has their own high draft pick in Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, who they hope can be the shooter at the 2 that they desperately need. I suspect we'll see a lot of Kyle Singler at the 3 and Billups/KCP at the 2 in an effort to provide at least some spacing offensively.

Yeah, Detroit is relying way to much on a washed up Billups and a rookie KCP. Odds are, neither guy will meet expectations. Singler might help them, but if he's on the court, it means Josh Smith will be at PF, which will result in a minutes crunch at PF and C.

[FAH1223]

My point is Falk is the type of agent who won't allow Monroe to sign an contract that the Pistons will match if he feels like his client his being shortchanged. Monroe will either be dealt next offseason or will play out the qualifying offer. If all the Piston are going to offer is a 4-year deal that other team's will match, there's no benefit to signing it w/ another team next year.

I don't think you're getting Restricted Free Agency.

Detroit extends the Qualifying Offer.

Monroe is then Restricted.

Monroe meets with teams and the Pistons let him determine his market value.

Monroe signs a 4 year offer sheet.

Detroit matches.

No one and I mean no one is dumb enough to play for the qualifying offer for one season and then become an Unrestricted Free Agent the following year. What young player coming off his rookie deal is going to jeopardize tens of millions of guaranteed dollars? It's stupid.

The worst case scenario is what happened with Brandon Jennings but I doubt he was going to play for the qualifying offer either. He was an idiot turning down $40 million from MIL.

Monroe will be in Detroit or they will do a sign and trade to get some pieces back next year. It's that simple. The teams control the WHOLE process in Restricted Free Agency.

[tontoz]

I guess one championship as a front office exec has given Dumars a lifetime pass. Smith and Jennings? Wow...and what does this mean for Monroe? I'm assuming Dumars is saving his five year max for Drummond. There's no way Falk allows Monroe to re-sign for four years. Does Detroit deal him and what's the price tag?

It doesn't matter. Monroe is a restricted free agent and DET can match any four year max offers he gets... which he will get next summer.

My point is Falk is the type of agent who won't allow Monroe to sign an contract that the Pistons will match if he feels like his client his being shortchanged. Monroe will either be dealt next offseason or will play out the qualifying offer. If all the Piston are going to offer is a 4-year deal that other team's will match, there's no benefit to signing it w/ another team next year.

So you think Falk will tell Monroe NOT to sign a max deal and take the QO instead? You think Falk is going to give up that commission?

[jivelikenice]

^I don't think Falk will let him sign a 4 year max extension with Detroit next offseason if he feels that Monroe is entitled to the 5 year max. If Falk was that worried about Monroe's ability to land a max contract and his commission, why wouldn't he push for the extension now? He's already said he won't negotiate until after his 4th season. If you think Falk is going to allow the Pistons to force his hand when he feels his client is slighted then you're kidding yourself. Most likely scenario is he gets dealt after next season IMO.

[tontoz]

^I don't think Falk will let him sign a 4 year max extension with Detroit next offseason if he feels that Monroe is entitled to the 5 year max. If Falk was that worried about Monroe's ability to land a max contract and his commission, why wouldn't he push for the extension now? He's already said he won't negotiate until after his 4th season. If you think Falk is going to allow the Pistons to force his hand when he feels his client is slighted then you're kidding yourself. Most likely scenario is he gets dealt after next season IMO.

The realities of free agency are very different from these bizarre scenarios playing out in your head.

Falk knows full well the realities of restricted free agency. Nobody is going to turn down a max deal to sign the QO. That is flat out nuts. No agent would ever allow it. And the Pistons aren't going to trade their best player coming off his rookie deal.

[jivelikenice]

^I don't think Falk will let him sign a 4 year max extension with Detroit next offseason if he feels that Monroe is entitled to the 5 year max. If Falk was that worried about Monroe's ability to land a max contract and his commission, why wouldn't he push for the extension now? He's already said he won't negotiate until after his 4th season. If you think Falk is going to allow the Pistons to force his hand when he feels his client is slighted then you're kidding yourself. Most likely scenario is he gets dealt after next season IMO.

Feel free to list all the times this scenario has played out. The realities of free agency are very different from these bizarre scenarios playing out in your head.

What type of scenarios? Where a player under his rookie contact was able to get dealt over an insistance for more $?

[jivelikenice]

Falk knows full well the realities of restricted free agency. Nobody is going to turn down a max deal to sign the QO. That is flat out nuts. No agent would ever allow it. And the Pistons aren't going to trade their best player coming off his rookie deal.

Strawman!!! LOL (I've always wanted to use that) I said the most likely scenario is he gets dealt if Falk and Monroe insist on the 5 year max and Detroit's not willing to give it. They'll threaten to play out the season on the QO but at that point a deal for both parties makes the most sense.

If you want to insist and try to make it seem like I was saying the most likely scenario has Monroe playing out his 5th year on the QO then go right ahead. If your position is that if Detroit offers a 4 year max deal, Monroe and Falk will sign it and thats that, then I disagree and we'll see how it plays out.

http://www.detroitbadboys.com/2013/3/2/ ... y-cap-2013

Doesn't sound like someone who's anxious to secure his commision.

[tontoz]

^I don't think Falk will let him sign a 4 year max extension with Detroit next offseason if he feels that Monroe is entitled to the 5 year max. If Falk was that worried about Monroe's ability to land a max contract and his commission, why wouldn't he push for the extension now? He's already said he won't negotiate until after his 4th season. If you think Falk is going to allow the Pistons to force his hand when he feels his client is slighted then you're kidding yourself. Most likely scenario is he gets dealt after next season IMO.

Feel free to list all the times this scenario has played out. The realities of free agency are very different from these bizarre scenarios playing out in your head.

What type of scenarios? Where a player under his rookie contact was able to get dealt over an insistance for more $?

1) where a player turned down the max to sign the QO
2) where a player coming off his rookie deal forced a trade from a team willing to pay him the max

[tontoz]

Falk knows full well the realities of restricted free agency. Nobody is going to turn down a max deal to sign the QO. That is flat out nuts. No agent would ever allow it. And the Pistons aren't going to trade their best player coming off his rookie deal.

Strawman!!! LOL (I've always wanted to use that) I said the most likely scenario is he gets dealt if Falk and Monroe insist on the 5 year max and Detroit's not willing to give it. They'll threaten to play out the season on the QO but at that point a deal for both parties makes the most sense.

If you want to insist and try to make it seem like I was saying the most likely scenario has Monroe playing out his 5th year on the QO then go right ahead. If your position is that if Detroit offers a 4 year max deal, Monroe and Falk will sign it and thats that, then I disagree and we'll see how it plays out.

http://www.detroitbadboys.com/2013/3/2/ ... y-cap-2013

Doesn't sound like someone who's anxious to secure his commision.

Did you actually read your own link?

"I don't think I've ever done an extension after a third year."

Falk is probably operating on the assumption that guys on their rookie deals aren't going to lose value during their last year. Falks stance has nothing to do with Detroit's situation.

And there is ZERO chance that Monroe turns down a 4 year max deal to sign the QO. In fact some max players have preferred shorter deals to give them a chance to become UFAs sooner.

[jivelikenice]

^I read the original article where he says its about more than $ in re-signing with Detroit. You're right dude. If Dumars does not offer the 5 year max (which was the basis for my original point) then Monroe will sign with Detroit regardless. Maybe you should let David Falk know that since its really that simple. Thanks again for your feedback. I always appreicate the insight you provide.

[jivelikenice]

And there is ZERO chance that Monroe turns down a 4 year max deal to sign the QO. In fact some max players have preferred shorter deals to give them a chance to become UFAs sooner.

Back to the QO. Yes, him playing out his 5th year on the qualifying offer was my main argument all along. Please run along....why don't you go back to comparing Wall's injury risk to Amare's and Gilbert's in the Wall extension thread. Since we're misrepresenting opinions, I can say that was yours, right?

[jivelikenice]

So now a 4 year max is some kind of insult ?

It all depends on the player and the agent. To some it may be....Obviously for Wall it was an issue. it was also an issue for Love. And Cousins is definitely looking for the 5 year as well.

[DCZards]

No one and I mean no one is dumb enough to play for the qualifying offer for one season and then become an Unrestricted Free Agent the following year. What young player coming off his rookie deal is going to jeopardize tens of millions of guaranteed dollars? It's stupid.

I know it hasn't happened (at least I believe it hasn't) where a player agreed to the qualifying offer for one season in order to become an unrestricted free agent, but that day is coming--very soon. With players increasingly looking to play in certain markets (like LA, Chicago, NY) or sign with teams where they have a chance of winning it all, I fully expect some player(s) to bite the bullet for a year (qualifying offer) in order to become a UFA so that they can go someplace where they really, really want to be....even if it means taking less money, like Dwight did in choosing Houston over LA.

[tontoz]

^I read the original article where he says its about more than $ in re-signing with Detroit. You're right dude. If Dumars does not offer the 5 year max (which was the basis for my original point) then Monroe will sign with Detroit regardless. Maybe you should let David Falk know that since its really that simple. Thanks again for your feedback. I always appreicate the insight you provide.

Of course he is going to say that. What do you expect him to say? Has any agent ever said it was only about the money?

History is the guide here. There are precious few examples of anyone turning down big money to play out the QO, so threatening to do that would be pointless. And Detroit isn't going to trade a guy just because he wants a 5th year.

Even Ben Gordon, who did play out the QO, only did so after the Bulls pulled their contract offer.

The only leverage Falk/Monroe would have to get the 5th year would be to threaten to sign a deal from another team that has an early out clause. No matter what happens, he will wind up in Detroit.

[queridiculo]

One things for sure, there'll be plenty of bricks to go around for that front court to snag of the boards, especially if Detroit decides to play Smith alongside Drummond and Monroe.

[miller31time]

Devin Harris to the Mavs for the vet's minimum.

And we have Eric Maynor.

So there's that.

[TheKingOfVa360]

Devin Harris to the Mavs for the vet's minimum.

And we have Eric Maynor.

So there's that.

There is no correlation between the two. Devin Harris isn't signing to a team with a bottom 10 record last season for the vet minimum.

[closg00]

Devin Harris to the Mavs for the vet's minimum.

And we have Eric Maynor.

So there's that.

There is no correlation between the two. Devin Harris isn't signing to a team with a bottom 10 record last season for the vet minimum.

Did Harris have other offers? This late in the game, Harris would have probably signed for the minimum with anyone if the alternative was the unemployment line.

[miller31time]

Devin Harris to the Mavs for the vet's minimum.

And we have Eric Maynor.

So there's that.

There is no correlation between the two. Devin Harris isn't signing to a team with a bottom 10 record last season for the vet minimum.

Dallas had the 14th-worst record in the league so it's not as if they're this powerhouse. Washington will likely have a better record than them this season.

But my point wasn't that we didn't get Harris - there were extenuating circumstances. My point was that there were plenty of better options available but Quick-Fire Ernie pulled the trigger on a terrible player the first chance he got. Even this late in the game, players like Harris are being had for reasonable deals.