Luis Scola Trade

JeffFosters · Post #81 » by **JeffFosters** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:45 pm

The more I think about the 2 1st round picks, the more I'm ok with it. Having two young 2nd-round 2-guards like Orlando Johnson and Lance Stephenson really eases the loss of the 1sts.

Scola is going to be brilliant, particularly with his passing game. Can't wait for the season to start.

Wizop · Post #82 » by **Wizop** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:50 pm

and I'm hopeful he plays so well that keeping him another year for less than the MLE is a bargain. from where I sit it looks like the early stories had the contract only partially guaranteed, but later stories said that was wrong. if I had to bet, I'd go with the new stories. we should know before too long but with Mike Wells no longer at the Star, we're suffering through a learning curve on the Pacer's beat.

granger05 · Post #83 » by **granger05** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:58 pm

Do you have any links to the new stories. I've only found stories that mention the partial guarantee and they seem recent. One of the things I love about the NBA is all of the random complexity of the CBA so I really enjoy this kind of crap. It's my belief that when he was waived, his guarantees were locked into the value that Houston owed him, but the claim PHX made on him included this partial guarantee in the value that they'd pay. But, that's a complete guess on my part (or wishful thinking). I'm curious to see if anyone just flat out asks this question at a news conference soon.

Post #84 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:05 pm

Wizop wrote:and I'm hopeful he plays so well that keeping him another year for less than the MLE is a bargain. from where I sit it looks like the early stories had the contract only partially guaranteed, but later stories said that was wrong. if I had to bet, I'd go with the new stories. we should know before too long but with Mike Wells no longer at the Star, we're suffering through a learning curve on the Pacer's beat.

Wells was never one for the CBA. I don't know that he would be useful in this instance.

Wizop · Post #85 » by **Wizop** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:20 pm

all I meant was Mike would have known to ask the question and to report the answer. the new guys are making very rookie mistakes just now and the paper pretty much let the draft and first part of free agency go by without the normal daily stories. at the moment, Montieth on the team website, and Bruno on 1070thefan are way ahead of the Star on understanding the questions.

Post #86 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:31 pm

Wizop wrote:all I meant was Mike would have known to ask the question and to report the answer. the new guys are making very rookie mistakes just now and the paper pretty much let the draft and first part of free agency go by without the normal daily stories. at the moment, Montieth on the team website, and Bruno on 1070thefan are way ahead of the Star on understanding the questions.

I agree that the Star is really screwing the pooch with their assignments right now. Losing Hutch and Wells so quickly should be a signal of problems to come.

Ultimately though, I doubt that Wells would have thought to ask that question. He was great with day to day stuff but never thought or reported on contract specifics, CBA stuff, etc. More just who the team was keeping an eye on kind of stuff. Our best bet is that we can find out confirmed stuff from Coon and Deeks, or Tim and Andrew.

Wizop · Post #87 » by **Wizop** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:45 pm

http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-pm-indiana-pacers-trade-turns-up-the-heat

Bruteque · Post #88 » by **Bruteque** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:29 am

granger05 wrote:I don't know what to make of the last year in Scola's contract. The posters here seem convinced that it's fully guaranteed. There's a 30+ page thread on pacersdigest where it's assumed that it's only partially guaranteed. I found this today: LINK.

The Suns were rewarded for astutely winning the Scola amnesty auction last year. His good contract and valuable veteran play made him an attractive trade piece. Scola will make $4.5 million this season, only $121,000 less than Green and Plumlee combined, and has a $4.9million salary for 2014-15 with $940,000 of it guaranteed because he played 82 games last season.

I'm hopeful about this partial guarantee because I think it will make him a really interesting trade chip next offseason regardless of how well things go for us this year. There are a lot of good FAs next offseason and there will be teams trying to move assets to free up cap-space. We saw some of that this year as well. A contract like Scola's would be exactly the kind of cap-friendly piece that could net us something interesting that could help longer term.

It's fully guaranteed.

It's a kink in the amnesty provision. If a full waiver claim is made on an amnestied player, then it works just like regular waiver (you take on the full terms of the player's contract, guaranteed salary, unguaranteed salary, bonuses, incentives, options, and ETO in all). However, if you make a partial waiver claim, then you assume the responsibility for the bid amount plus all non-base compensation (bonuses, incentives, etc.) and all unguaranteed salary (there is, obviously, no such thing as a partial waiver claim for normal waivers, so this can only happen with amnestied players). Scola was claimed by partial waiver, so all his bonuses, incentives, and unguaranteed salary became effectively guaranteed.

This looks like a great anti-MIA move by the Pacers. MIA enjoy much of their success playing small because post game is almost a lost art in the NBA these days, so weak post defense is only a limited liability. Scola is one of the rare hold-overs who can actually still punish teams in the post. If Scola could give even good post defense in Bynum+Gasol+Odom headaches, imagine how much of a pain he would be to MIA. Plus, Scola has only missed a grand total of 8 games in 6 NBA seasons. Knock on wood. If I were Pat Riley, I certainly wouldn't be too happy with the Suns management right now...

Amen316 · Post #89 » by **Amen316** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:03 am

IF the Suns are trying to Tank they are headed in the right direction for sure with this trade. Now all they have to do is move Gortat and this team is full blown worst team in the NBA not by a little bit but by miles. I would bet their PF / PA will and could be around -10

Indiana I agree that if Danny Granger stayed out of this trade scenario this creates not only a deep team but a 2nd unit with a crafty person (LS) and a match-up nightmare (DG) for talent. Even if this team is behind it is going to have the ability to catch up. Most important there are always games Roy Hibbert is so-so and adding DG back to the rotation with the starters in that stretch would be a nightmare in small ball.

Congrats Indiana

Post #90 » by **Nuntius** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:41 am

Regarding the Scola amnesty.

We re-signed Hill and Hibbert in the same day (July 13) that the Rockets waived Scola. We couldn't place a bid on him since re-signing Hill and Hibbert took us over the cap. So, we couldn't bid for him unless we waited on re-signing Hill and Hibbert but that wouldn't be right since Scola was amnestied suddenly and with no previous rumors about it. He wasn't even in an amnesty target according to most CBA experts. The timing was just horrible for us.

Regarding the trade now.

I have to say that I'm not glad that we gave up Plumlee. I like his game and I believe that he will be a decent back-up big for years to come. BUT.

I LOVE Scola. This signing really solidifies our bench scoring. So, I'm extremely happy

PS: It's also a good deal for Phoenix since it fits their direction. They are tanking so this deal fits their plans.

Post #91 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:02 pm

Nuntius wrote:Regarding the Scola amnesty.

We re-signed Hill and Hibbert in the same day (July 13) that the Rockets waived Scola. We couldn't place a bid on him since re-signing Hill and Hibbert took us over the cap. So, we couldn't bid for him unless we waited on re-signing Hill and Hibbert but that wouldn't be right since Scola was amnestied suddenly and with no previous rumors about it. He wasn't even in an amnesty target according to most CBA experts. The timing was just horrible for us.

Regarding the trade now.

I have to say that I'm not glad that we gave up Plumlee. I like his game and I believe that he will be a decent back-up big for years to come. BUT.

I LOVE Scola. This signing really solidifies our bench scoring. So, I'm extremely happy

PS: It's also a good deal for Phoenix since it fits their direction. They are tanking so this deal fits their plans.

Hill's and Hibbert's cap holds took us close enough to the cap that even waiting wouldn't have allowed us to make a bid close to what Phoenix was able to bid. Plus, here wasn't even word of amnesty for Scola early on, and the amnesty window is a week or two after free agency started.

Wizop · Post #92 » by **Wizop** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:13 pm

and we still had hopes for Tyler when Scola was going through waivers. Vogel seemed to have liked him until the end. maybe he still does and it took Bird to decide to cut bait. when Tyler signed with Toronto, Hibbert tweeted "who would want to backup DWest?" the answer is a veteran confident in his abilities and more concerned with winning than his individual stats and money. enter Scola.

8305 · Post #93 » by **8305** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:25 pm

Scola brings more of what this team needs in a David West backup. It appears a better fit is someone who can bring much of what David does for the second unit (capable scorer, shot creator, passer, facilitator). We will from time to time miss the change of pace Tyler could bring. But, our second unit needs David West type offensive skills more than it needs an energy change of pace guy.

Where Tyler couldn't carve out more than basic backup 12-15 minutes per game due to his lack of versitility and ability to positively impact the game. Scola will likely earn a larger allocation of minutes because he will fit better with the starting unit, represent a better second unit scoring option and play some at the 5.

Post #94 » by **Charcoal Filtered** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:27 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Nuntius wrote:Regarding the Scola amnesty.

We re-signed Hill and Hibbert in the same day (July 13) that the Rockets waived Scola. We couldn't place a bid on him since re-signing Hill and Hibbert took us over the cap. So, we couldn't bid for him unless we waited on re-signing Hill and Hibbert but that wouldn't be right since Scola was amnestied suddenly and with no previous rumors about it. He wasn't even in an amnesty target according to most CBA experts. The timing was just horrible for us.

Regarding the trade now.

I have to say that I'm not glad that we gave up Plumlee. I like his game and I believe that he will be a decent back-up big for years to come. BUT.

I LOVE Scola. This signing really solidifies our bench scoring. So, I'm extremely happy

PS: It's also a good deal for Phoenix since it fits their direction. They are tanking so this deal fits their plans.

Hill's and Hibbert's cap holds took us close enough to the cap that even waiting wouldn't have allowed us to make a bid close to what Phoenix was able to bid. Plus, here wasn't even word of amnesty for Scola early on, and the amnesty window is a week or two after free agency started.

It was not public knowledge that Scola was going to be amnestied, but Houston no doubt shopped him prior to the amnesty. The problem was that KP had already foolishly spent our cap space on Green and DJ and then overpaying for Mahimni the day before his release. I think Scola helps us win now, but the way he was acquired was not thrifty use of resources.

Wizop · Post #95 » by **Wizop** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:57 pm

Scola arrived in Indy Monday and was introduced to the press on Tuesday. you'll find lots of video on pacers.com.

Post #96 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:39 pm

Wizop wrote:Scola arrived in Indy Monday and was introduced to the press on Tuesday. you'll find lots of video on pacers.com.

Yup. Definitely played the "understanding" role well. Specifically mentioned he's more than ok with coming off the bench, and that he just wants to do whatever it takes to win a championship.

Funny note, apparently he was working with Copeland in the "Basketball without Borders" program when he had to walk away and answer his cell phone. Turns out, it was the notification that he had just been traded to the Pacers and he returned to the drills to let Cope know that they were now teammates!

Post #97 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:40 pm

Also, Vogel's comments were lovely to hear.

"Let 'em know we're going for it this year".

Love it. Championship or bust.

Wizop · Post #98 » by **Wizop** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:22 pm

I also liked Vogel's, and I'm paraphrasing, we want Lance to fight for a starting spot but accept coming off the bench if need be, and we want Danny fighting to regain his position as the best player on the team.

the cornrows podcast makes a good case for Granger coming off the bench. maybe we need Bird to introduce Danny to Hondo (and Heinsohn) who were great Celtics that Red had come off the bench.

Post #99 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:57 pm

Wizop wrote: maybe we need Bird to introduce Danny to Hondo (and Heinsohn) who were great Celtics that Red had come off the bench.

If Lance is the better player at this time, should we do the same with him, and start Danny instead?

Wizop · Post #100 » by **Wizop** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:26 pm

perhaps that depends upon whether Paul is best at two or three. starting Lance puts Paul at the 3 while starting Danny puts him at the 2. assuming that the starters play more minutes than the reserves, you'd want Paul at his best as much as possible. but that's probably a bad assumption as all three of them can play near equal minutes.

indycornrows makes the case that Lance should start because the first unit needs his ball handling and he is certainly a press breaker with his freight train mode. I think that's a bit illusory though as the 3 should be able to get the ball up court when the guards are pressed as long as he's paying attention. not that I don't love Lance on the break. in fact, I think Lance wants to play with runners. West isn't a runner but he keeps his head up and can make the long outlet pass. I haven't seen Scola enough to know whether he can do that too.

bottom line though is I read Vogel as saying this is going to be an on court competition to be resolved in the fall and experimentation may even continue through the season. I don't think he has any intention of writing anything in concrete this summer. he's described the matter as a dynamic which implies fluidity and motion.