I Warned You. Bautista's Value Peaked In 2011

[Schad]

5 fWAR, what is it good for?

Absolutely nothing! --- if it's for a last place team


It doesn't matter if Bautista hits 100 homeruns this season, his value is just being wasted if the Jays are under .500

And while his value is being wasted, it's also diminishing

But what you're arguing for here has nothing to do with Bautista's relative value...even if he was somehow able to sustain 7.7 fWAR until the end of time, he'd be wasted if the rest of the team continued to underperform to this extent. We're not performing badly because he has peaked, we're performing badly because our starting pitching has been appalling and we have three significant holes in the lineup.

There were two credible directions to go in 2011 and 2012: a complete rebuild, using our few established players to add to our bounty of minor league talent, and aiming to start competing in 2015 and beyond with a group of very young, very talented pieces, to which we could add. The second was to use that extremely deep farm system to try and compete with more immediacy, and that's the route we went. Both options were logical; neither option really hinged on Bautista's relative level of eliteness.

Had the pieces acquired performed to their expected level, this discussion wouldn't be happening, no matter Bautista's production. That they aren't performing does not mean that competing was not a possibility...AA didn't fail in his strategy, he failed in his execution.

[Fairview4Life]

Trade everyone with any value until everyone has value. It's foolproof! Someone send the man a cookie.

[Santoki]

Ok, it's 2013 now and Bautista's value is still high. What direction do you take?

[UN-Owen]

But at the time we didn't have elite players

Except they had two offensive elite players (Bautista, Encarnacion) and two others with the potential of being elite (Rasmus, Lawrie). They needed to go out to get some top-level pitching to supplement that talent, which they did. It was enough to make them a contender on paper going into the season. To call their plan flawed is just a bit of an exercise in hindsight reasoning.

I don't agree with spending 2 years collecting young assets, only to trade most of those assets for a "3 year window"

My approach would have been to build a long term dynasty by filling the farm with high end prospects -- starting with the ones I acquired by trading Bautista


I don't need you to adopt my plan for team building as your own, but you're not even acknowledging that my approach has some merit -- despite the evidence being tilted in my favour


You're missing the point of this thread, Randle, because you're not opening your eyes to it

Which is the point of the thread

[Mr Swagtastic]

Bautista is a major crowd draw no wsy do the Jays move him unless your getting Trout Felix Hernandez Bryce Harper Mark Trumbo Stephen Strasburg Justin Verlander or anybody like that and I am iffy on Trumbo or Verlander. This is such a crap thread but Jose on a team like Detroit or LA and you have a different storu

[Schad]

You're aware that many of the people you're arguing against favoured the same approach, right?

And that they're disagreeing with your "I told you" premise involves you flailing fruitlessly at a strawman of your own creation, right?

[Randle McMurphy]

My approach would have been to build a long term dynasty by filling the farm with high end prospects -- starting with the ones I acquired by trading Bautista

That's fine. But that approach that has no guarantee of success and no guarantee of even finding a player as good as Bautista.

I don't need you to adopt my plan for team building as your own, but you're not even acknowledging that my approach has some merit -- despite the evidence being tilted in my favour

Rebuilding completely would have been a fine way to go, I've never argued differently. It wasn't the one I would have chosen, but it was certainly an option (and far better off than the treadmill that they'd been in for a few years before that). That doesn't, however, mean that AA's approach didn't have serious merit too.

You're missing the point of this thread, Randle, because you're not opening your eyes to it

Which is the point of the thread

No, it seems the real point of this thread is you having your ego stroked.

[MikeM]

Whoa, you mean his value peaked with a Barry Bonds like season? You're a **** genius.

[UN-Owen]

Bautista is a major crowd draw no wsy do the Jays move him unless your getting Trout Felix Hernandez Bryce Harper Mark Trumbo Stephen Strasburg Justin Verlander or anybody like that and I am iffy on Trumbo or Verlander. This is such a crap thread but Jose on a team like Detroit or LA and you have a different storu

Winning is a bigger crowd draw

[Mattd97]

yeah if wed traded bautista for a top end package like gose, drabek and d'arnaud wed clearly be set on the path to a dynasty

[UN-Owen]

And that they're disagreeing with your "I told you" premise involves you flailing fruitlessly at a strawman of your own creation, right?

You're on a roll today with those assumptions!

But I thought we agreed to stick to what we could prove

[Schad]

Welp, this went well.