OT-John Wall $80 million

[retrolenny]

WOW!!! He's a good player but always injured and certainly not AllStar caliber. Maybe getting Jennings wasn't so bad!!

[engelbert321]

Definitely feel a lot better about Jennings' contract after seeing this

[Natopher]

I posted this in another Jennings thread but this is probably where I should post it:

Considering the fact that Wall just signed a deal for 80mil/5yr I'd say the Jennings trade looks even better. Jennings is a better shooter (despite what people may say based on his FG%) and a good passer with good ball control. They both put up very similar numbers last year, and considering we got Jennings at half the price per year, I'd say that's great.

[Q00]

Look at their per 36 stats last year. Almost the same. Wall finishes a little better inside, but Jennings shoots a lot better outside. Wall is a little bit better playmaker, but Jennings is a little better at taking care of the ball. Wall is a little younger, but only by 1 year. All things considered, we are payingg literally half what Washington is for basically the same production, just different playing styles. I wouldn't even say Wall has more potential either, as I think Jennings might be just as talented.

[retrolenny]

At least Jennings is durable

[Slackstring701]

Definitely feel a lot better about Jennings' contract after seeing this

John Wall is on another planet talent wise to Jennings

[zeebneeb]

Look at their per 36 stats last year. Almost the same. Wall finishes a little better inside, but Jennings shoots a lot better outside. Wall is a little bit better playmaker, but Jennings is a little better at taking care of the ball. Wall is a little younger, but only by 1 year. All things considered, we are payingg literally half what Washington is for basically the same production, just different playing styles. I wouldn't even say Wall has more potential either, as I think Jennings might be just as talented.

See that's the thing. Jennings is as talented as anyone. Its his damn head. He seems to have a pretty high BBIQ wich makes his shot selection at times all the more bamboozeling, anger inducing, and head shaking.

I wonder how much his teammates had to do with it? The lineup he will be playing with, certainly the front-court, is to say the least, light years ahead of what he played with previously.

I sure hope this kid gets right in the head, because this could either be a great signing, or a **** show extrordinaire. Wall deal is MASSIVE. WOW.

[Q00]

Definitely feel a lot better about Jennings' contract after seeing this

John Wall is on another planet talent wise to Jennings

Their actual production says otherwise. Just watching them says otherwise. They are both great talents. To claim they are worlds apart talent wise is just wrong.

[Natopher]

I truly believe that Jennings' shot jacking had to do more with his teammates than anything. Coming out of high school he was highly regarded as a point guard with great vision and passing ability who had a tendency to shoot more than he should. And when you look at the players he had most of his time in Milwaukee he really didn't have any other legit offensive threats. He never had a player (apart from Ellis) who could get his own shot. I was watching his first game in the playoffs the other day and he started alongside John Salmon, Delfino, Mbah a Moute and Kurt Thomas... And he nearly lead that team to a first round victory in the playoffs.

I don't doubt that Jennings likes to shoot, but I also don't believe he's a chucker. I think that has more to do with him being his teams main or only option most year than him being selfish.

[MrBigShot]

A few things:

1. The Wizards didn't have much of a choice here. This guy is the best player they've had since Arenas and he will go as far as they take him. They could have waited until the off season and then matched any offer he received, but this way they show him that they are fully committed to him. I truly believe several teams would have offered him the max in restricted free agency, and they would have ended up paying him this much anyway. I think the issue is that they overpaid...the incentive to extend him early would be to get a discount. I think 5/70 would have been more fair.

2. Wall had a long stretch post all star break where he looked like a top 10 NBA player. His jumper is coming along...he's definitely more confident in that he was in his rookie year. He's shown strides in what they asked him to improve on. He's gotten stronger, improved his shot, no longer picks up his dribble, and improved his decision making and turned the ball over less.

3. Wall has as much potential as any guard in the league. He is faster than just about anyone end to end, quick as heck, and can jump out of the gym. He's also 6'4 195. If he continues to improve his jumper he will become a perennial all star and top 5 PG. He's that talented. Not only offensively, but defensively. His length/athleticism/size gives him a lot more defensive potential than a guy like Kyrie Irving or Lillard for example.

4. I criticize Jennings a lot but there is no denying he is talented. At 8 mil his deal is a fine talent wise...some of his career highlights:

55 points
20/10/10
4 game stretch where he had: 19, 17, 12, 10 assists

He is clearly immensely talented. Most of the issues are mental...i.e. shot selection, scoring vs facilitating

[engelbert321]

Definitely feel a lot better about Jennings' contract after seeing this

John Wall is on another planet talent wise to Jennings

I agree that Wall is better than Jennings, but I don't think he's that much better right now.

[Natopher]

I'm not so sure Wall is necessarily better, I just think they're different. They're both very talented, they just excel at different things. They both have very good vision, although Wall is probably better at setting up his teammates (he's had better teammates than Jennings though). Wall is the better defender and a MUCH better finisher at the hoop. But Jennings takes better care of the ball and is a much better shooter. Whichever one is "better" depends more on who you're putting them with, IMO. If we had Wall and not Jennings our team wouldn't look as good because we wouldn't have consistent shooting.

[DetroitPistons]

This board is getting ridiculous. Wall is faaaaaaaar superior to Jennings. It's embarrassing to say otherwise. Wall was a monster the second half of the season and turned the Wizards into a respectable team after being the laughing stock of the league to start the season. He is only going to get better and can easily be a top 5 PG as soon as next year.

[zeebneeb]

This board is getting ridiculous. Wall is faaaaaaaar superior to Jennings. It's embarrassing to say otherwise. Wall was a monster the second half of the season and turned the Wizards into a respectable team after being the laughing stock of the league to start the season. He is only going to get better and can easily be a top 5 PG as soon as next year.

Can you go into as to why he is far superior? I mean its not a problem to like another player more then another, but at least make a case as to why.

No one is questioning Wall here. Its more of a money for the contract, whats the value.

The numbers are not that much different either. I would have expected something like 22-12 for your statement, but that is not the case. Talent wise, you really cant argue Jennings isn't talented. Its what is between his ears that's in question.

Its as to wether or not he can put it all together, or just be a "talented" chucker.

Wall is becoming a really good PG, and I would take him if someone offered either player, 10/10 no question. With that said, isn't it a little early to write off Jennings, when you know how talented he is?

That seems weird to me. As if your offended someone even brought up Jennings in the same conversation, when the numbers dictate that we should have, certainly when looking at contracts.

[DetroitPistons]

This board is getting ridiculous. Wall is faaaaaaaar superior to Jennings. It's embarrassing to say otherwise. Wall was a monster the second half of the season and turned the Wizards into a respectable team after being the laughing stock of the league to start the season. He is only going to get better and can easily be a top 5 PG as soon as next year.

Can you go into as to why he is far superior? I mean its not a problem to like another player more then another, but at least make a case as to why.

No one is questioning Wall here. Its more of a money for the contract, whats the value.

The numbers are not that much different either. I would have expected something like 22-12 for your statement, but that is not the case. Talent wise, you really cant argue Jennings isn't talented. Its what is between his ears that's in question.

Its as to wether or not he can put it all together, or just be a "talented" chucker.

Wall is becoming a really good PG, and I would take him if someone offered either player, 10/10 no question. With that said, isn't it a little early to write off Jennings, when you know how talented he is?

That seems weird to me. As if your offended someone even brought up Jennings in the same conversation, when the numbers dictate that we should have, certainly when looking at contracts.

Go watch Wall in the second half of last season. He was masterful. Stats don't tell the whole story (they never do). Both guys are going in opposite directions right now. Jennings stats got worse this year and he is a sub 40% shooter with a selfish chucker mentality. Wall averaged an extra point and assist more then him but did it on far better efficiency. He also ran the team far better. Just watch the games and you will see the astronomical difference between the two. The eye test trumps all but in this case the stats help out too. I'm personally not offended but this is a thread that is embarrassing to the Pistons board in a similar way that the Stuckey/Harden thread was.

[Natopher]

This board is getting ridiculous. Wall is faaaaaaaar superior to Jennings. It's embarrassing to say otherwise. Wall was a monster the second half of the season and turned the Wizards into a respectable team after being the laughing stock of the league to start the season. He is only going to get better and can easily be a top 5 PG as soon as next year.

Can you go into as to why he is far superior? I mean its not a problem to like another player more then another, but at least make a case as to why.

No one is questioning Wall here. Its more of a money for the contract, whats the value.

The numbers are not that much different either. I would have expected something like 22-12 for your statement, but that is not the case. Talent wise, you really cant argue Jennings isn't talented. Its what is between his ears that's in question.

Its as to wether or not he can put it all together, or just be a "talented" chucker.

Wall is becoming a really good PG, and I would take him if someone offered either player, 10/10 no question. With that said, isn't it a little early to write off Jennings, when you know how talented he is?

That seems weird to me. As if your offended someone even brought up Jennings in the same conversation, when the numbers dictate that we should have, certainly when looking at contracts.

Go watch Wall in the second half of last season. He was masterful. Stats don't tell the whole story (they never do). Both guys are going in opposite directions right now. Jennings stats got worse this year and he is a sub 40% shooter with a selfish chucker mentality. Wall averaged an extra point and assist more then him but did it on far better efficiency. He also ran the team far better. Just watch the games and you will see the astronomical difference between the two. The eye test trumps all but in this case the stats help out too. I'm personally not offended but this is a thread that is embarrassing to the Pistons board in a similar way that the Stuckey/Harden thread was.

Apart from John Wall scoring 5 more points a game on 3 more attempts and having a higher FG%, their stats are nearly identical post all-star break.

[DetroitPistons]

Okay, I guess 5 more ppg on higher FG% (arguably Jennings biggest problem) doesn't mean much.

[Natopher]

Wall needed a higher FG% and more attempts to score essentially 2 buckets more than Jennings. All their other stats were nearly identical except Jennings had fewer turnovers and a higher FT%. I just don't understand how you can say that Wall is CLEARLY better. The way I see it you can debate for either player, and I don't think simply arguing FG% is an argument for Wall. And as I've stated before Jennings low FG% is due to the fact that he takes mostly long range shots where as Wall lives at the rim.

[DetroitSho]

This board is getting ridiculous. Wall is faaaaaaaar superior to Jennings. It's embarrassing to say otherwise. Wall was a monster the second half of the season and turned the Wizards into a respectable team after being the laughing stock of the league to start the season. He is only going to get better and can easily be a top 5 PG as soon as next year.

Can you go into as to why he is far superior? I mean its not a problem to like another player more then another, but at least make a case as to why.

No one is questioning Wall here. Its more of a money for the contract, whats the value.

The numbers are not that much different either. I would have expected something like 22-12 for your statement, but that is not the case. Talent wise, you really cant argue Jennings isn't talented. Its what is between his ears that's in question.

Its as to wether or not he can put it all together, or just be a "talented" chucker.

Wall is becoming a really good PG, and I would take him if someone offered either player, 10/10 no question. With that said, isn't it a little early to write off Jennings, when you know how talented he is?

That seems weird to me. As if your offended someone even brought up Jennings in the same conversation, when the numbers dictate that we should have, certainly when looking at contracts.

Go watch Wall in the second half of last season. He was masterful. Stats don't tell the whole story (they never do). Both guys are going in opposite directions right now. Jennings stats got worse this year and he is a sub 40% shooter with a selfish chucker mentality. Wall averaged an extra point and assist more then him but did it on far better efficiency. He also ran the team far better. Just watch the games and you will see the astronomical difference between the two. The eye test trumps all but in this case the stats help out too. I'm personally not offended but this is a thread that is embarrassing to the Pistons board in a similar way that the Stuckey/Harden thread was.

I'm confused as to why in everyone keeps bringing up one freaking half of a season to promote John Wall. Why can't the same be done for Stuckey? You know how y'all say he explodes late in the 2nd half. Not to say Wall ain't talented but damn one half out of 3 full seasons is reason enough to give him $80 million? He was underwhelming by alot of accounts the first 2 years. One half erases that?

[Q00]

The FG% argument in Wall's favor is funny, considering before last year he averaged only 41% his first two full years, which is pretty much around the same as Jennings. So he shot a little better for a half a season last year...is that supposed to suddenly classify him as an efficient shooter? Anyone can clearly see that Jennings is the better shooter of the two. The efficiency aspect just comes from learning to take better shots, as well as having better talent around you to draw attention, so you get more open looks ie higher % shots. Its no coincidence that Wall's % increased once he started playing with some legit bigs inside. No reason Jennings shouldn't experience the same better looks here with our bigs. As the defense can't hone in completely on stopping Jennings at the rim, he will get easier finishing opportunities, just like I'm sure Wall experienced playing with Nene and Okafor.