Kawhi Leonard

[tradez401]

Id rather do a deal of rudy gay+ross+filler for monroe+jerebko

[titandude]

Are ya'll serious? I'm a Spurs fan so let me know if you think anything is wrong with my views. Let me put a value on how good Kawhi is. Lets talk SF's. Top 2 are Lebron and Durant. No one touches those two. Next are Carmelo, Iggy and Kawhi. Season stats are worthless since pop doesn't play kawhi enough minutes. Lets talk postseason last 2 years. 2013: Kawhi 21 games and PER of 19. Carmelo 12 games and PER of 20.5. Iggy 6 games with a per of 20. 2012: Kawhi 14 games on a 15.1 PER. Carmelo with 5 games with a PER of 21.5. Iggy with 13 games with a PER with 13.4. As you can see, the more they play in the post season the lower their PER except Kawhi. That's because the competition gets better. That means that Carmelo and Kawhi are the two favorites for the third spot. Since PER doesn't take into effect defense, and Kawhi is by far the better defender. He can guard 1-4. That puts him in that third spot. Kawhi has much more upside than Carmelo and Iggy at this point in time and still in his rookie contract with 2 more years. That's like 3 mil per year. Carmelo and Iggy take up so much capspace. In his second season and he has just as many playoff games as iggy and less than half of carmelos 10 year career. This guy has tons of experience in playoffs and turned 22 after the playoffs ended. Would anyone trade the 3rd best SF for an average C in the league? 2013 season stats Monroe PER 19.5 Splitter PER 18.7. And why would the Spurs do this for someone who hasn't even tasted playoff experience?

[mercury]

per.. really?... kinda smells like ESPN... I will give you playoff performance... and frankly I would much rather have Kawhi over Melo... but you're seriously under estimating Mr. Monroe... he is as close to a young TD as you will be able to acquire (at this salary it's a complete bargain)... now, where exactly were you going to get TD's replacement from.. Splitter?... c'mon now let's get real... that boy is soft as charmin.

[ImHeisenberg]

Id rather do a deal of rudy gay+ross+filler for monroe+jerebko

Nooooooooo!!!!!

[ComboGuardCity]

Are ya'll serious? I'm a Spurs fan so let me know if you think anything is wrong with my views. Let me put a value on how good Kawhi is. Lets talk SF's. Top 2 are Lebron and Durant. No one touches those two. Next are Carmelo, Iggy and Kawhi. Season stats are worthless since pop doesn't play kawhi enough minutes. Lets talk postseason last 2 years. 2013: Kawhi 21 games and PER of 19. Carmelo 12 games and PER of 20.5. Iggy 6 games with a per of 20. 2012: Kawhi 14 games on a 15.1 PER. Carmelo with 5 games with a PER of 21.5. Iggy with 13 games with a PER with 13.4. As you can see, the more they play in the post season the lower their PER except Kawhi. That's because the competition gets better. That means that Carmelo and Kawhi are the two favorites for the third spot. Since PER doesn't take into effect defense, and Kawhi is by far the better defender. He can guard 1-4. That puts him in that third spot. Kawhi has much more upside than Carmelo and Iggy at this point in time and still in his rookie contract with 2 more years. That's like 3 mil per year. Carmelo and Iggy take up so much capspace. In his second season and he has just as many playoff games as iggy and less than half of carmelos 10 year career. This guy has tons of experience in playoffs and turned 22 after the playoffs ended. Would anyone trade the 3rd best SF for an average C in the league? 2013 season stats Monroe PER 19.5 Splitter PER 18.7. And why would the Spurs do this for someone who hasn't even tasted playoff experience?

3rd best SF? He's not even a tier 1 SF. He cannot create his own shot. That alone pushes him behind the top 5 SFs in the NBA. He's closer to Batum than Melo and I'd argue Batum is the better player.

[titandude]

per.. really?... kinda smells like ESPN... I will give you playoff performance... and frankly I would much rather have Kawhi over Melo... but you're seriously under estimating Mr. Monroe... he is as close to a young TD as you will be able to acquire (at this salary it's a complete bargain)... now, where exactly were you going to get TD's replacement from.. Splitter?... c'mon now let's get real... that boy is soft as charmin.

Hey man, Tiago IS average. I don't doubt that, but some posters under value Kawhi so much I actually had to sign up. We still have Tim Duncan on the roster so it's alright

Leonard, Green and a first is definitely a good start, but I'd still want at least 1 more future first. That said, SA has good big men, but they don't have much SF depth so I highly doubt they'd entertain trading Kawhi.

This guy wants Kawhi Leonard, Danny Green, and TWO first round picks for Greg Monroe. WOW. lol. Two starters from a championship team.

[titandude]

Are ya'll serious? I'm a Spurs fan so let me know if you think anything is wrong with my views. Let me put a value on how good Kawhi is. Lets talk SF's. Top 2 are Lebron and Durant. No one touches those two. Next are Carmelo, Iggy and Kawhi. Season stats are worthless since pop doesn't play kawhi enough minutes. Lets talk postseason last 2 years. 2013: Kawhi 21 games and PER of 19. Carmelo 12 games and PER of 20.5. Iggy 6 games with a per of 20. 2012: Kawhi 14 games on a 15.1 PER. Carmelo with 5 games with a PER of 21.5. Iggy with 13 games with a PER with 13.4. As you can see, the more they play in the post season the lower their PER except Kawhi. That's because the competition gets better. That means that Carmelo and Kawhi are the two favorites for the third spot. Since PER doesn't take into effect defense, and Kawhi is by far the better defender. He can guard 1-4. That puts him in that third spot. Kawhi has much more upside than Carmelo and Iggy at this point in time and still in his rookie contract with 2 more years. That's like 3 mil per year. Carmelo and Iggy take up so much capspace. In his second season and he has just as many playoff games as iggy and less than half of carmelos 10 year career. This guy has tons of experience in playoffs and turned 22 after the playoffs ended. Would anyone trade the 3rd best SF for an average C in the league? 2013 season stats Monroe PER 19.5 Splitter PER 18.7. And why would the Spurs do this for someone who hasn't even tasted playoff experience?

3rd best SF? He's not even a tier 1 SF. He cannot create his own shot. That alone pushes him behind the top 5 SFs in the NBA. He's closer to Batum than Melo and I'd argue Batum is the better player.

You're smoking now. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXemx5E9t20 This is Kawhi with no big three vs the bulls at there home floor. And here are some regular highlights http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOvPnXka8R0 Batum? are you serious?. I'm not even going to reply to that one. Tier 1 is Lebron and Durant. Fine Kawhi ain't that. But he is the best one after that.

[ElectricMayhem]

Heh. This guy's as much of a homer as we are.

[HotelVitale]

Why would we do this trade when we already have a better player at SF in Smith? To me, replacing Monroe with Smith at PF is a lateral move. The fact that Leonard would be a clear downgrade over Smith at SF, there's nothing logical about this trade. It would have to prove a really bad fit up front to ever consider this move, and even then, we would trade Monroe for Rondo or explore a bevy of other better players before settling on a downgrade in talent, just to remedy a poor fit.

Google 'Josh Smith as small forward.' The Hawks tried on and off for years to play him there--since Horford is best as a PF--and it didn't work very well. Smith wasn't terrible as a SF but he became a pretty regular player there and the offense often stagnated. Playing him at the 3 is not necessarily going to be a disaster but it's also a fact that he's not been consistently good as a 3 without some good shooting big men around him.

That said, the Kawhi thing is tricky. The question for me is usage: Monroe right now is by far the best guy at using up possessions on our team, both because he can create for himself all day and because his efficiency doesn't fall off too much if he has to use more possessions. Advanced stats say Kawhi has lots of other skills but 3D stuff--e.g. he's been really good in the post and really good as a point forward in small samples--but he hasn't done these things enough that you know you could actually count on him to do so. Right now, he plays as a relatively low usage guy who defers to the Spurs' high-usage trio, and he basically never has to shoot or use a possession unless he's in a good position to. If you put him on a team where he MUST do more than spot shoot and flash some other skills here and there, do you really know if he can keep up his sterling efficiency? There's a chance he could be like Paul George but more efficient if you unleash him, but I think that historically most jack-of-all-trades guys who excel as role players fall off when you give them more minutes. I don't think Kawhi would be horrible as a higher-usage guy, but do I know he can be as good using 26% of possessions rather than 16%? Nope.

Also, you can say he was the best Spur for stretches during the Finals, but JJ Barea was undoubtedly the best Mav during the 2010 finals for at least a few important quarters. This doesn't mean that Kawhi's performance meant nothing or that his ceiling isn't higher than Barea's, just that many (though by no means all) players are capable of dominating when playing at their best. Only a few can consistently do that, and we call them 'stars.'

[titandude]

Why would we do this trade when we already have a better player at SF in Smith? To me, replacing Monroe with Smith at PF is a lateral move. The fact that Leonard would be a clear downgrade over Smith at SF, there's nothing logical about this trade. It would have to prove a really bad fit up front to ever consider this move, and even then, we would trade Monroe for Rondo or explore a bevy of other better players before settling on a downgrade in talent, just to remedy a poor fit.

Google 'Josh Smith as small forward.' The Hawks tried on and off for years to play him there--since Horford is best as a PF--and it didn't work very well. Smith wasn't terrible as a SF but he became a pretty regular player there and the offense often stagnated. Playing him at the 3 is not necessarily going to be a disaster but it's also a fact that he's not been consistently good as a 3 without some good shooting big men around him.

That said, the Kawhi thing is tricky. The question for me is usage: Monroe right now is by far the best guy at using up possessions on our team, both because he can create for himself all day and because his efficiency doesn't fall off too much if he has to use more possessions. Advanced stats say Kawhi has lots of other skills but 3D stuff--e.g. he's been really good in the post and really good as a point forward in small samples--but he hasn't done these things enough that you know you could actually count on him to do so. Right now, he plays as a relatively low usage guy who defers to the Spurs' high-usage trio, and he basically never has to shoot or use a possession unless he's in a good position to. If you put him on a team where he MUST do more than spot shoot and flash some other skills here and there, do you really know if he can keep up his sterling efficiency? There's a chance he could be like Paul George but more efficient if you unleash him, but I think that historically most jack-of-all-trades guys who excel as role players fall off when you give them more minutes. I don't think Kawhi would be horrible as a higher-usage guy, but do I know he can be as good using 26% of possessions rather than 16%? Nope.

Also, you can say he was the best Spur for stretches during the Finals, but JJ Barea was undoubtedly the best Mav during the 2010 finals for at least a few important quarters. This doesn't mean that Kawhi's performance meant nothing or that his ceiling isn't higher than Barea's, just that many (though by no means all) players are capable of dominating when playing at their best. Only a few can consistently do that, and we call them 'stars.'

You just proved my case. Kawhi played the most minutes and his PER gets better. His 16% usage just means he doesn't need the ball to have the same PER as Carmelo. If he gets plays drawn for him, his PER goes higher. Let me remind you PER doesn't account how good your defense is. I don't understand what you mean by unproven. Playoff performance is where you show the type of player you really are. You either fail under pressure or rise through it. The playoffs are so intense compared to regular season. Please. This guy is a player. Even Pop said he draws no plays for him and sees him as the next franchise player of the spurs.

Except that kawhi was actually solid THROUGHOUT the playoffs and not just a few quarters as a bench player, while guarding the best players on the opposite team and not just being an offensive threat.

[HotelVitale]

Are ya'll serious? I'm a Spurs fan so let me know if you think anything is wrong with my views. Let me put a value on how good Kawhi is.

Happy to do just this for you, bro, happen to have brought my b***** dectector with me today. Your premise that Kawhi is in the conversation for top-5 SF isn't abysmal, but your evidence is...let's just say illogical.

Lets talk SF's. Top 2 are Lebron and Durant...Next are Carmelo, Iggy and Kawhi.

Paul George and Paul Pierce would like to discuss these tiers. Kawhi has won a lot of games and played well in the playoffs, but his overall advanced stat profile puts him in the Kirilenko-Iggy-Gallinari-Gordon Hayward category. An objective person puts him above them based on intangibles, but not at the tier of the two Pauls.

Season stats are worthless since pop doesn't play kawhi enough minutes.

He averaged 31.2 minutes last season, which is about average for a starter on a good team. If you don't think so Kawhi's per-36 numbers were 14/7/2, which are nice but not going to get him in any conversation for top SF.

Lets talk postseason last 2 years. 2013: Kawhi 21 games and PER of 19. Carmelo 12 games and PER of 20.5. Iggy 6 games with a per of 20. 2012: Kawhi 14 games on a 15.1 PER. Carmelo with 5 games with a PER of 21.5.

Not clear how a 'combined playoff PER of 17.7' (2012-13 Kawhi) equals a 'combined playoff PER of 21' (2012-13 Carmelo). Last year, 3.3 points of PER was the difference between James Harden and JJ Hickson, or Marc Gasol and Jermaine O'Neal. Huge difference. Need to be more careful with those slippages.

Iggy with 13 games with a PER with 13.4. As you can see, the more they play in the post season the lower their PER except Kawhi.

'They' being Carmelo Anthony, since two years of him are the only evidence provided? I'd bet that statement's just not true--logically, you tend to win more games and advance if you're playing well and posting higher PERs; and anecdotally we've all seen many many people play much better later in the playoffs.

'That's because the competition gets better.'

Carmelo's defensive competition was much stouter. He played lone wolf scorer against the Pacers, Celtics, and the Heat, three of the best 5 teams in defensive efficiency those years. Kawhi played 7th highest usage guy on a Spurs team that drew the Dwight-less Lakers and the small-balling Warriors, both lame defensive teams, before getting two teams that give up the corner three all day to penetration. Year before they played the defensively-challenged (to put it mildly) Utah Jazz and LA Clippers, before going down to the Thunder. Carmelo undoubtedly played better defenses in those playoff runs.

Since PER doesn't take into effect defense

It does, go back and check how it's calculated. It doesn't capture defensive effectiveness well, but Kawhi got a big boost from in PER from defense. Got a lot of credit for his steal rate, for instance.

Kawhi has much more upside than Carmelo

No he doesn't. He has virtually no chance of being a scoring champ, for instance. He has much more 'room for improvement' but 'upside' means how good you could possibly be. It's a long road for Kawhi to get to the level of overall accomplishment that Carmelo is at. He's made a great start but his 'upside' is still unrealized while Carmelo has shown more or less who he is.

still in his rookie contract with 2 more years. That's like 3 mil per year. Carmelo and Iggy take up so much capspace.

This is true but seems like a different argument. It's great that Kawhi's dirt cheap for two years, but we're not arguing about value relative to contract. Your whole argument so far hasn't been about that--it's been about being holistically 'better' and a 'top SF.'

Would anyone trade the 3rd best SF for an average C in the league? 2013 season stats Monroe PER 19.5 Splitter PER 18.7.

Okay, here's the thing. You just built a rambling argument on the premise that Kawhi, whose PER is barely above league average and was slightly worse than Gerald Henderson's last year, is a dominant and amazing SF. So why make an argument for your player's superiority based only on PER? There's some many things wrong with this comparison anyway: if you're measuring only by PER, Jose Calderon is better Rondo or Joakim Noah. And Splitter would be about the 8th best starting center in the league (and JJ Hickson is the 4th best). Do you believe either of those are true? Splitter's PER is really high for the same reason Javale's and DeAndre Jordan's is: he plays as 4th or 5th fiddle to effective offensive players and doesn't have to shoot unless he has great looks, and he doesn't try to do much else. He's a nice player, but do you think he's the 40th best player in the NBA?

[titandude]

Are ya'll serious? I'm a Spurs fan so let me know if you think anything is wrong with my views. Let me put a value on how good Kawhi is.

Happy to do just this for you, bro, happen to have brought my b***** dectector with me today. Your premise that Kawhi is in the conversation for top-5 SF isn't abysmal, but your evidence is...let's just say illogical.

Lets talk SF's. Top 2 are Lebron and Durant...Next are Carmelo, Iggy and Kawhi.

Paul George and Paul Pierce would like to discuss these tiers. Kawhi has won a lot of games and played well in the playoffs, but his overall advanced stat profile puts him in the Kirilenko-Iggy-Gallinari-Gordon Hayward category. An objective person puts him above them based on intangibles, but not at the tier of the two Pauls.

Season stats are worthless since pop doesn't play kawhi enough minutes.

He averaged 31.2 minutes last season, which is about average for a starter on a good team. If you don't think so Kawhi's per-36 numbers were 14/7/2, which are nice but not going to get him in any conversation for top SF.

Lets talk postseason last 2 years. 2013: Kawhi 21 games and PER of 19. Carmelo 12 games and PER of 20.5. Iggy 6 games with a per of 20. 2012: Kawhi 14 games on a 15.1 PER. Carmelo with 5 games with a PER of 21.5.

Not clear how a 'combined playoff PER of 17.7' (2012-13 Kawhi) equals a 'combined playoff PER of 21' (2012-13 Carmelo). Last year, 3.3 points of PER was the difference between James Harden and JJ Hickson, or Marc Gasol and Jermaine O'Neal. Huge difference. Need to be more careful with those slippages.

Iggy with 13 games with a PER with 13.4. As you can see, the more they play in the post season the lower their PER except Kawhi.

'They' being Carmelo Anthony, since two years of him are the only evidence provided? I'd bet that statement's just not true--logically, you tend to win more games and advance if you're playing well and posting higher PERs; and anecdotally we've all seen many many people play much better later in the playoffs.

'That's because the competition gets better.'

Carmelo's defensive competition was much stouter. He played lone wolf scorer against the Pacers, Celtics, and the Heat, three of the best 5 teams in defensive efficiency those years. Kawhi played 7th highest usage guy on a Spurs team that drew the Dwight-less Lakers and the small-balling Warriors, both lame defensive teams, before getting two teams that give up the corner three all day to penetration. Year before they played the defensively-challenged (to put it mildly) Utah Jazz and LA Clippers, before going down to the Thunder. Carmelo undoubtedly played better defenses in those playoff runs.

Since PER doesn't take into effect defense

It does, go back and check how it's calculated. It doesn't capture defensive effectiveness well, but Kawhi got a big boost from in PER from defense. Got a lot of credit for his steal rate, for instance.

Kawhi has much more upside than Carmelo

No he doesn't. He has virtually no chance of being a scoring champ, for instance. He has much more 'room for improvement' but 'upside' means how good you could possibly be. It's a long road for Kawhi to get to the level of overall accomplishment that Carmelo is at. He's made a great start but his 'upside' is still unrealized while Carmelo has shown more or less who he is.

still in his rookie contract with 2 more years. That's like 3 mil per year. Carmelo and Iggy take up so much capspace.

This is true but seems like a different argument. It's great that Kawhi's dirt cheap for two years, but we're not arguing about value relative to contract. Your whole argument so far hasn't been about that--it's been about being holistically 'better' and a 'top SF.'

Would anyone trade the 3rd best SF for an average C in the league? 2013 season stats Monroe PER 19.5 Splitter PER 18.7.

Okay, here's the thing. You just built a rambling argument on the premise that Kawhi, whose PER is barely above league average and was slightly worse than Gerald Henderson's last year, is a dominant and amazing SF. So why make an argument for your player's superiority based only on PER? There's some many things wrong with this comparison anyway: if you're measuring only by PER, Jose Calderon is better Rondo or Joakim Noah. And Splitter would be about the 8th best starting center in the league (and JJ Hickson is the 4th best). Do you believe either of those are true? Splitter's PER is really high for the same reason Javale's and DeAndre Jordan's is: he plays as 4th or 5th fiddle to effective offensive players and doesn't have to shoot unless he has great looks, and he doesn't try to do much else. He's a nice player, but do you think he's the 40th best player in the NBA?

You want to talk about tiers? Paul Pierce: 2013 PER 10.7 2012 PER 16.2. AND NO DEFENSE This guy is riding legacy. NEXT! Paul George 2013 PER 16.7 2012 PER 12.5 Decent defense. I wouldn't take none of those guys before KaWOW.

Let me explain everything for you. Don't pay attention to outliers. Outliers are stats that make no sense. Don't bring up players that play a short ammount of GAMES or MINUTES with high PER's. Stop trying to make yourself look dumb please. Kawhi held his number with better competition with more games and minutes. That's SOLID and not an outlier.

Now back to carmelo. 12 games vs Kawow's 21 games. I like how you combined Kawhi's rookie season and use it against him. Carmelo's 2013 PER is 20.5 and Kawhi's PER is 19. 1.5 difference while playing **** defense. I use 2 post seasons to correlate that Kawhi's numbers increased with games and that's the opposite for those other 2 players.

You can only play better if you show you ARE better. JEEZ. It's Carmelo's fault for barely getting 7th seed and having Jeremy Lin carry his ass to a playoff birth. LOL and then Complain you get beat by better competition. They should have gotten 3rd or 4th seed but maybe he just isn't the player many people think.

"Bear in mind that this rating is not the final, once-and-for-all answer for a player's accomplishments during the season. This is especially true for players such as Bruce Bowen and Trenton Hassell who are defensive specialists but don't get many blocks or steals" PER wiki im ashamed I had to show you this.

Kawhi also does more than put a hand up and pretend to play defense. He does more than block shots or steals. He makes defensive rotations, he gets back in transition, he obstruct your shots with his length. Lot's of things PER doesn't take into account. That's one thing George Karl always said bad about carmelo.

ARE you comparing PERS from different POSITIONS to make your point? LOL. I compared PER in same positions and I only did that for regular season because Monroe doesn't have any playoff stats.

Dude your straight everywhere in your ideas. Sorry man. Kawhi is the THIRD best SMALL FORWARD in the league whether you like it or not.

[Natopher]

PER is a horrible stat and comparing players based only off it is beyond awful. According to PER, Thaddius Young is the 7th best SF in the league and Chris Copeland is a better player than Paul George, Kawhi Leonard, Chandler Parsons, Rudy Gay, etc. It also says Amare Stoudemire is the 3rd best PF in the league behind only Duncan and Griffin. Do you honestly think that's true? Kawhi is probably a top 10-15 SF in the league, but that's mainly because the SF position is super weak right now after the elite talent, which Kawhi is not. If you wanna have an actual argument about why Kawhi is better than ditch the PER argument and get another one, because no one is buying your PER BS.

[titandude]

Personal attacks and obscenities are not allowed

[Natopher]

All your post says is "PER this, PER that, better PER, how could that happen when his PER is worse?" Your entire argument is based around PER. And here are some SFs I'd take over Kawhi: LeBron, Durant, Carmelo, George, Iggy, Pierce, Deng, Gay. Then I'd probably take Kawhi, so I'd have him at about 9th out of all the SFs in the league, and to be honest there's not really many talented SFs after him, Gallinari, etc. Kawhi definitely has potential, but his being a top SF has a lot to do with the fact that there just aren't that many quality SFs in the league right now.

[Dirtgrain]

PER is a horrible stat and comparing players based only off it is beyond awful.

This.

[tmorgan]

titandude's crazy PER rant that got him a nice rest aside, I do think some people are underrating Leonard a bit. Any kind of comparison to Tayshaun just isn't correct -- late in his age 21 season, Kawhi was putting up good numbers as a (typically) 3rd or 4th option on a championship contender. He'd just completed his second NBA season, with general improvement in minutes, scoring, rebounding, etc.

At the same age, Tay hadn't even been drafted yet. He hadn't even played in his final NCAA tournament with Kentucky yet.

I'm not sure I'd trade Monroe for Leonard, for the reasons many people already listed, but it's close. Dude is 6'7", shares the floor with Duncan, and averaged 9 boards. He's a lot more than 3-and-D.

[MrBigShot]

Kawhi is a good starter in this league that can contribute on low usage, with plenty of room to grow. He's still not as good as Lebron, Melo, Durant, Pierce, Paul George. I'd say he's up there with healthy Granger, Gallinari, Iggy, Green.

As I already explained, Monroe's skill set is a rarer. A Monroe/Leonard swap isn't far off value wise. If it's unfair for any team, it would be us. Do you know how many players in the league averaged 16/10/3 last year? Not many. It just seems silly to say that Leonard is worth more than Moose...

Most importantly though, we would be silly to trade any member of Smith/Drummond/Monroe before even seeing them play together.

[sc8581]

Personally I would trade Monroe for Leonard. Monroe was the #1 option on a bad team and averaged 16ppg, in the 2nd half of the season Leonard averaged 14ppg on one of the best teams in the league and he clearly didn't demand a lot of touches to do so. Monroe might be the better rebounder but with Smith and Drummond are we really worried about a slight decline there? Monroe also got a lot of easy tip-ins and put-backs that he will not get this year playing a lot of minutes with Drum and Smith plus the lane is going to be clogged so how effective is he going to be in the post anyway? Defensively Kawhi is a huge upgrade, what he did in the playoffs against LeBron was probably more scheme than anything but you can't deny that he's a very good defender, one on one, rotating and playing the passing lanes without really gambling to do so.

Another thing that may be getting over-looked here is contract status, because of what Monroe will demand this deal would give us $10-12 million more in cap space next summer. The only negative I see is the obvious hole at back-up center especially considering we know Drummond is going to have plenty of games where he gets in foul trouble for the next year or 2 but if we could fill that spot with more than just some bum this trade would make us a whole lot better.

[Invictus88]

Personally I would trade Monroe for Leonard.

Can we trade Smith for Leonard instead?

I realize the numbers don't even remotely work but he would have been WAY better fit-wise.

I honestly like both Monroe and Leonard. Leonard played GREAT in the finals while having to guard LeBron a lot of the time. He did well. At 21.

I view that series as sort of his coming out party similar to the way Tay did in the playoffs some years ago. I don't know what his ceiling is but in my mind he's already demonstrated he's going to be a high quality player for years to come barring injury.

People looking at last year's regular season stats are going to be surprised this year methinks. Now that he's shown his teammates what he is capable of they are going to give him more room to do it. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Leonard becomes the team's 2nd option behind Parker next year. Duncan is still really good but I would try to preserve him as much as possible.

Interesting thread.