Our Franchise Direction?

[LamarMatic7]

I think we can make a Pacers like run in the '14-15 season. I'm very, very high on Zeller. I think he's the key

Don't you think that's a year too early? I think an '09 Bulls type of series (3-4 against the Celtics, tons of overtimes) where we give the high seed one helluva tough series and then a run during the '15-16 season is more likely.

[Liver_Pooty]

I think we can make a Pacers like run in the '14-15 season. I'm very, very high on Zeller. I think he's the key

Don't you think that's a year too early? I think an '09 Bulls type of series (3-4 against the Celtics, tons of overtimes) where we give the high seed one helluva tough series and then a run during the '15-16 season is more likely.

By '15-16 season I hope were doing a lot more than giving a high seed a run for their money. I'd like to at least be a mid 4-5 seed by then. That'd by the 5th year of our rebuild.

[HornetJail]

I think it all depends on what we do this year. If we make a run to the playoffs as a 7-8 seed and only receive, say the 12th pick from Detroit then I think we could make a run into the 2nd round or push a good team to 6 or 7 games in 2015, and then work towards the CFs from there. I think we have a better shot of being legit contenders if we wait another year on the playoffs, stay in the lottery in 2014 and grab a top 7 pick along with Detroit, I guess the plan gets pushed back a year but I think the team would have a higher ceiling. I'd say this team peaks around '17-'18.

[amcoolio]

I feel really good about Kemba and MKG being fringe/allstar players. Kemba just has "it"...MKG has a great NBA body, talent, and works really hard.

I feel really good about Zeller but obviously need to see more.

I feel good about Taylor being a great role player that would get minutes on a championship team. I would bench Gordon all year and give all the backup 2/3 minutes to Taylor.

I am starting to get uneasy on Bismack, but its probably good that he doesn't break out until after his 2nd contract, so we can resign on him on the cheap. Still some of his best games came in his rookie season, so there needs to be improvement this year.

I think Henderson is a stop gap player and I have a really hard time seeing he'll improve over what he is now. His spot in the starting lineup will be replaced by our '14 pick, if we suck, no matter who it is.

I am still so/so on Jefferson signing. I would have preferred one more year of tank, but I know we can't lose Kemba and it was a move to show Kemba we are willing to win.

Honestly if we keep the team as is we should be in the playoffs in a few years....But MJ/Cho wanted a championship-caliber team so getting one of Wiggins/Randle/Parker/Gordon makes more sense

[LamarMatic7]

I think we can make a Pacers like run in the '14-15 season. I'm very, very high on Zeller. I think he's the key

Don't you think that's a year too early? I think an '09 Bulls type of series (3-4 against the Celtics, tons of overtimes) where we give the high seed one helluva tough series and then a run during the '15-16 season is more likely.

By '15-16 season I hope were doing a lot more than giving a high seed a run for their money. I'd like to at least be a mid 4-5 seed by then. That'd by the 5th year of our rebuild.

That's what I meant. A run for their money in 14-15, a Pacers type of run in 15-16.

Although I have to say, guys, be prepared to have your heart broken. I can easily imagine us also not making the post-season until 2016. I think it's a bit early to talk about reaching the conference finals, Gilwalker.

[Liver_Pooty]

Don't you think that's a year too early? I think an '09 Bulls type of series (3-4 against the Celtics, tons of overtimes) where we give the high seed one helluva tough series and then a run during the '15-16 season is more likely.

By '15-16 season I hope were doing a lot more than giving a high seed a run for their money. I'd like to at least be a mid 4-5 seed by then. That'd by the 5th year of our rebuild.

That's what I meant. A run for their money in 14-15, a Pacers type of run in 15-16.

Although I have to say, guys, be prepared to have your heart broken. I can easily imagine us also not making the post-season until 2016. I think it's a bit early to talk about reaching the conference finals, Gilwalker.

If were not in postseason by 2016 than Walker will leave us in free agency for sure, and I wouldn't blame him.

[HornetJail]

If were not in postseason by 2016 than Walker will leave us in free agency for sure, and I wouldn't blame him.

There is no way Kemba, Zeller, MKG, Biz, Hendo, Jefferson, Taylor, Sessions, and two 2014 lottery picks doesn't make the playoffs by 2016.

[Liver_Pooty]

If were not in postseason by 2016 than Walker will leave us in free agency for sure, and I wouldn't blame him.

There is no way Kemba, Zeller, MKG, Biz, Hendo, Jefferson, Taylor, Sessions, and two 2014 lottery picks doesn't make the playoffs by 2016.

I'd certainly hope so. I can't take too much more of these non playoff seasons.

[lmcguir5]

If were not in postseason by 2016 than Walker will leave us in free agency for sure, and I wouldn't blame him.

There is no way Kemba, Zeller, MKG, Biz, Hendo, Jefferson, Taylor, Sessions, and two 2014 lottery picks doesn't make the playoffs by 2016.

I would love to agree here, and while I believe we will, I just hope nothing catastrophic happens to our health

[Liver_Pooty]

At least David Aldridge likes where were headed.

http://www.nba.com/2013/news/features/d ... f:nbahpt3a

[Durins Baynes]

Making the playoffs and being a contender are 2 different things. I also think way too many teams get compared to faux contenders the Pacers, who give Miami some trouble in the playoffs, before Miami gets serious and wins. It's like saying the 2008 Hawks were secret contenders, because they took the Celtics to 7 games. I would be surprised if the Pacers make it out of the 2nd round next year, given how much the East has improved.

Let's take a step back, and look at where the Bobcats are. The Bobcats have had 2 consecutive seasons as the worst team in the NBA by a substantial margin, breaking records as they went. People should be very cautious about saying anyone on the team is particularly good in light of this. What are the main pieces?

Cody Zeller is probably the most promising at this point. He looks like, if things pan out, he could be LaMarcus Aldridge. That's a good player to have. But it took Aldridge at least 2-3 years to become that guy, so saying he'll be leading the team this year seems early.

MKG- basically Gerald Wallace once he develops some more. A good role player to have, but you can't really expect him to carry the team.

Al Jefferson is a guy who kind of ends up neutral in terms of his impact- what he gives on O he takes back on D (and by being a black hole on offense). No team has ever (successfully) built around this guy, or someone like him. He's basically a name for the franchise to sell while Zeller and MKG come into their own.

Biyombo hasn't shown nearly enough improvement to feel confident about his role in the NBA. He blocks shots, and that's about all at this stage. The rest is deeply inconsistent, and he hurts you too much to play him starters minutes on a winning team. Assume you'll get nothing out of Biyombo to be safe.

Hendo is nothing but a middling starter at best, and I'm dubious he's even that.

Kemba has improved from his awful rookie season, but he's still not even an average point guard really.

The rest of your team doesn't matter in terms of projecting 2-3 years down the road. Basically, the Bobcats still look a long way away. If they can get a star next draft, and maybe a decent role player with the Pistons pick, then they can roll out a line-up in 2015 that looks like this:
- Zeller at the 4 spot, in what is a predominantly 3 man big rotation (with Al and Biyombo/unknown switching out depending on whether you want to score or play D)
- Kemba at the point
- MKG at the 3
- Unknown star at the other swing position.
That team probably doesn't quite make the playoffs in 2015 without seasoning, but by 2016 (if you draft right) it should be a playoff team, and then after that it's about finding the right fits, a good coaching system and ancillary players, etc. Is that a contender in 2017 onwards? Not unless you get a blue chip star in the 2014 draft I wouldn't think. Still, it'll be a playoff team with young guys the fans can cheer for, and that'll be good for rebuilding the fanbase and Brand.

[Elden Payton]

Firstly I'd have to say that I agree completely about the difference between being a playoff contender and championship contender, you are correct imo and I honestly think it is way too early to even mention the P word (playoffs) and hence a lot of us haven't.

That is all I agree with though and the rest of your post screams of errors and stereotypical ESPN BS.

Firstly the Bobcats only had one historically bad season which was an absolute trainwreck, I watched over half of it too and trainwreck is the ideal word for it, but, the Bobcats weren't even the worst team last season, that honour went to the Orlando Magic so I don't know what this "substantial margin" is that you speak of.

Just because you finish with a bad record does not mean that not a single player on your team is "particularly good" for the record the Magic have some awesome young players on their team in Vucevic and Harris who I believe are "particularly good"

Cody Zeller is an awesome prospect imo and I'm so glad we picked him but he has not played an NBA game yet so it is impossible to decide if he is in fact a better prospect than either Kemba Walker or Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Lamarcus Aldridge is a lazy comparison imo and reeks of Chad Ford or some BS, Chris Bosh would be more apt because Zeller probably projects as a better rebounder and defender than Aldridge despite what some of the experts believe.

With the MKG/Gerald Wallace comparison I'd say again that is lazy and stereotypical, considering that most of this board has seen them both extensively I'm sure they'd tell you that MKG is a better ball handler, playmaker and has a higher bball IQ than Crash probably ever did, MKG has a long way to go to get to Crash standard but MKG is the better of the two as prospects and MKG is a more natural baller over complete athletic freak Gerald.

Why do people actually assume that we signed Al Jefferson to aim for playoffs?, you just answered your own statement as impossible as that sounds, No team has ever successfully built around Jefferson...what do you think we are trying to do? But yes he is a name and we needed one (who would help more off the court)

Biyombo has shown tremendous improvement although unfortunately he's still not very good, he still did manage to lead our team in both blocks and rebounds last season so he actually provides at least something for a project, and, that is what he is, a project.

Hendo is a mid tier SG, for 6m a year that is a steal, great deal for a guy that can give you 20 every other night.

Kemba Walker basically averaged 18/4/6/2 on 42 percent, excellent for a second year PG and your statement "not even an average point guard really" is blatantly false.

For the record the list of point guards invited to the Team USA minicamp was Irving, Wall, Walker, Conley, Lillard, Lawson and Smart; what is "not even average" about that list?

The rest of our team doesn't matter in projecting 2-3 years down the road? What about guys like Ramon Sessions and Jeff Taylor?

What do think of this team in 2 years?

Kemba/Sessions
Henderson/Taylor
MKG/Taylor
Zeller/Biyombo
Jefferson/Biyombo

+

Charlotte 2014 first rounder, Detroit 2014 first rounder (top 8 protected) and Portland 2014 first rounder (top 12 protected)

+

20 million in cap space in 2014.

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I think that team, dare I say it, could make the 2015 playoffs easily.

[Durins Baynes]

You were the real worst team last year, with the worst SRS, the Magic just tanked to improve their odds. If they had been trying half as hard as you, they'd have easily finished ahead. They even opened the season 12 wins, 13 losses, before they lost Big Baby (and the coach started revving the tank up to full per the front office's instructions).

As to the rest, there isn't a lot of the violent disagreement you spoke of, except to assert MKG will be better than Gerald Wallace (I doubt it), and that Kemba is above average for his position because he went to the USA Mini-camp (almost meaningless for determining that, a lot of guys who are not close to all-stars go to that, and many players turn it down, or put it out there that they aren't even interested). Average means you are in the middle of the pack for your position. I can definitely name 14 point guards better than Kemba, so at best he's shooting for average.

[Elden Payton]

You were the real worst team last year, with the worst SRS, the Magic just tanked to improve their odds. If they had been trying half as hard as you, they'd have easily finished ahead. They even opened the season 12 wins, 13 losses, before they lost Big Baby (and the coach started revving the tank up to full per the front office's instructions).

As to the rest, there isn't a lot of the violent disagreement you spoke of, except to assert MKG will be better than Gerald Wallace (I doubt it), and that Kemba is above average for his position because he went to the USA Mini-camp (almost meaningless for determining that, a lot of guys who are not close to all-stars go to that, and many players turn it down, or put it out there that they aren't even interested). Average means you are in the middle of the pack for your position. I can definitely name 14 point guards better than Kemba, so at best he's shooting for average.

Firstly Orlando had the worst record last season and were the worst team in the league, about a third of the league was tanking including Charlotte so your logic makes no sense, Charlotte's record is because they suck but Orlando was just tanking...ok then

You are mistaking your opinion with fact " they would have easily finished ahead had they tried half as much as you" is not factual evidence of anything.

MKG is a better prospect than Wallace was is what I was saying.

In regards to Kemba now you are using a strawman argument, you actually said that Kemba is "not even an average point guard " and now you're saying he is an average point guard so which is it?

While you're at it can you please name the 14 point guards better than Kemba?

The team USA minicamp is where the USA basketball program hand selects the best young prospects in the game to get a closer look at their ability and their international potential.

You post like anyone can get an invite.

[Durins Baynes]

Charlotte was behind the Magic all year, then the Magic front office had the team tank harder to improve their odds. They could easily have finished with an extra win or two, they just chose not to. The Bobcats on the other hand legitimately sucked. The SRS of the two teams confirms this observation, as the Bobcats were far worse.

As for Kemba, he isn't even average really. There are more than 15 starters better than him. But since you responded that he was above average, I just thought I'd clarify what "average" actually meant. In no particular order the following are all better point guards than Kemba: Chris Paul, Tony Parker, Rondo, Deron Williams, Ty Lawson, D.Rose, M.Conley, K.Lowry, S.Nash, S.Curry, Rubio, J.Wall, Westbrook, Holiday, Lillard, Irving, and arguably several others too like J.Teague, Dragic, etc. That's already 17 though. There are potentially more too, depending on how we define point guards, given guys like Olapido will be playing the point this year, but will be Combo guards who need a Combo guard next to them.

[Elden Payton]

Charlotte was behind the Magic all year, then the Magic front office had the team tank harder to improve their odds. They could easily have finished with an extra win or two, they just chose not to. The Bobcats on the other hand legitimately sucked. The SRS of the two teams confirms this observation, as the Bobcats were far worse.

As for Kemba, he isn't even average really. There are more than 15 starters better than him. But since you responded that he was above average, I just thought I'd clarify what "average" actually meant. In no particular order the following are all better point guards than Kemba: Chris Paul, Tony Parker, Rondo, Deron Williams, Ty Lawson, D.Rose, M.Conley, K.Lowry, S.Nash, S.Curry, Rubio, J.Wall, Westbrook, Holiday, Lillard, Irving, and arguably several others too like J.Teague, Dragic, etc. That's already 17 though. There are potentially more too, depending on how we define point guards, given guys like Olapido will be playing the point this year, but will be Combo guards who need a Combo guard next to them.

What part of Charlotte was tanking too are you not comprehending?

Again you are confusing your opinion with reality "The Bobcats on the other hand legitimitely sucked" was particularly insightful.

That PG list is terrible also, Lowry? Nash? Holiday? Lillard? and you do know Rubio shoots 36 percent right? None of these guys at this point are clearly better than Kemba aside from Holiday and even that's debatable.

Teague & Dragic?

Oladipo has proven nothing in this league and you name him?

What are the chances Oladipo averages 18/4/6/2 this season or next? Not good I'd say.

I do not know what you're trying to achieve coming to the Charlotte board to tell us how terrible we are? Especially when your posts are illogical, disingenuous and are obviously trolling.

[Durins Baynes]

Go to the Player Comparison board and ask people if they'd take Kemba over those guys. They're largely no-brainers.

The Bobcats were just bad, their SRS was historically poor, while the Magic were just a team turning the gas pedal off to get better odds as the season went on. The Bobcats are slightly different, because although their front office tanked, they did it by putting together a team with minimal talent, not resting guys and letting close games go on purpose (indeed, the Bobcats weren't that bad in close games). The Bobcats were trying as hard as they could, they just weren't very good.

[mcaponi2]

Kemba put up an 18.8 PER last season which is indeed well above the league average for point guards. In fact it was weay better than lillards 16.4 and nash and lowry. If I'm not mistaken Kemba's PER ranked 8th among staring point guards and his EFF rating ranked 11th.

[messed_up_todd]

There is simply no way to justify taking Jeff Teague over Kemba Walker.

[Durins Baynes]

I really don't care what his PER was, it's a terrible way to assess players.