Clutchness in elimination games..stats of Jordan, Kobe..

[Rasho_libre]

Take out Kobe's stats from his first 3 years.

Then we should do that with everyone. Why does Kobe get the special treatment. Lets start with melo. Gc pantaloons ran the stat I believe from 2001 they were still less than stellar, but not exactly bad per say.

[kabstah]

Just noticed...


00’ G7 vs. POR – 25 PTS, 11 RBS, 7 AST, 0 STL, 4 BLK, 2 TOV, 9/19 FG, 1/4 3P, 6/12 FT

The Lakers were up 3-1 in that series so there should be 3 elimination games from that series alone.....suspect.

Elimination game means facing elimination, not eliminating the other team. Otherwise the very next game on Kobe's list, 2002 G6 vs. SAC, would not qualify. Should've done your homework, part'na.

[N8N]

Dirk and Lebron should go at it again before Dirk retires. They're both impressive in the playoffs.

Also, the way Kobe was defended is much much different than the way Lebron was defended (to be fair). It's just mind-boggling to me why the former would take really difficult shots in spite of it. It's not that Kobe isn't smart - he is, but his shot selection, man...

[Rasho_libre]

Just noticed...


00’ G7 vs. POR – 25 PTS, 11 RBS, 7 AST, 0 STL, 4 BLK, 2 TOV, 9/19 FG, 1/4 3P, 6/12 FT

The Lakers were up 3-1 in that series so there should be 3 elimination games from that series alone.....suspect.

Elimination game means facing elimination, not eliminating the other team. Otherwise the very next game on Kobe's list, 2002 G6 vs. SAC, would not qualify. Should've done your homework, part'na.

, I think unbiased fan was talking about these games as swing games. They are definitely importing as well but it will bring the averages of a lot of these guys up as well. Usually when you're 3-1 or 3-0 in a series it's usually done unless your tmac. Those situations although important usually mean your team is much better and will close out with relative ease in most situations again unless you're tmac .

[Rasho_libre]

Dirk and Lebron should go at it again before Dirk retires. They're both impressive in the playoffs.

Also, the way Kobe was defended is much much different than the way Lebron was defended (to be fair). It's just mind-boggling to me why the former would take really difficult shots in spite of it. It's not that Kobe isn't smart - he is, but his shot selection, man...

Kobe's basketball knowledge is up there with anybody in nba history really. In 17 years I have yet to figure out why on the court he's the complete opposite, especially when it comes to shot selection.

[NBA4EVA2010]

Don't try to act like a valedictorian when you aren't doing your homework..part'na

Bad reading comprehension I see?

[blackrook]

Dirk in Elimination Games
Total Games: 19

You missed two games. In 2001 the Mavericks were down 0-2 against the Jazz, they faced elimination 3 times.

Gm3: 33 pts, 10 trb, 2 ast, 1 blk, 2 tov, 9/19 fg, 2/7 3p, 13/14 ft and W
Gm4: 33 pts, 8 trb, 2 ast, 0 tov, 10/19 fg, 5/10 3p, 8/9 ft and W

11 wins, 10 losses in 21 games with: 28.9 ppg, 11.4 rpg, 2.8 apg, 1.0 spg, 1.1 bpg, 1.8 tpg, 48.5 fg%, 40.8 3p%, 90.8 ft%

That's a good catch. Definitely an oversight.

[Winsome Gerbil]

This may have been targeted at Kobe, don't know or care. But certainly he looks like the biggest disappointment on the list.

On the other hand TMac, for all the mockery about not making it out of the first round and whatnot, certainly looks like he did his share and then some. Those aren't choker numbers.

[LakerLegend]

Kobe's numbers will be down because you're including:

3 years when he was ages 18-20.

2011 and 2012 when he clearly wasn't "himself", meaning those knee issues, as Phil cited in his book.

OP should have included minutes played too...

[Rasho_libre]

Kobe's numbers will be down because you're including:

3 years when he was ages 18-20.

2011 and 2012 when he clearly wasn't "himself", meaning those knee issues, as Phil cited in his book.

OP should have included minutes played too...

They were removed by the pantaloons guy it's in the thread, they still don't look nice. Again why would we removed games just for Kobe? Then you should remove bad starts he's from everyone.

[NBA4EVA2010]

Kobe's numbers will be down because you're including:

3 years when he was ages 18-20.

2011 and 2012 when he clearly wasn't "himself", meaning those knee issues, as Phil cited in his book.

OP should have included minutes played too...

wt..

[boateng]

this whole kobe-issue in each and every thread gets tiresome

what I've learned (and already assumed) from this thread is that Lebron and Dirk are the kings of elimination games over the past 15 years.

whenever someone askes me which player I want to have on my team to close it out, my vote goes to either of the two.

i was about to write this

he must be the most interesting man in the world

every thread turns into a kobe debate/bashing/ or overrating

[AshyLarry]

good job OP... couple of myths are being exposed here. dirk and lebron chokers? false...kobe the most clutch? false.....MJ lived up to his hype? true!

[Massamba]

this whole kobe-issue in each and every thread gets tiresome

what I've learned (and already assumed) from this thread is that Lebron and Dirk are the kings of elimination games over the past 15 years.

whenever someone askes me which player I want to have on my team to close it out, my vote goes to either of the two.

i was about to write this

he must be the most interesting man in the world

every thread turns into a kobe debate/bashing/ or overrating

The reason : there is a gap between his reputation and what stats show. He is known as the ultimate clutch player, the ultimate skilled player, the ultimate hard worker, the best playoff performerm the best under pressure etc.. but stats always show players that are better than him. When i saw the title of the thread i knew we will focuse the debate on Kobe.
People should assume that stats will never put Kobe on the top of the list. We have to respect Kobe's legacy. He has 5 rings. We should to stop making statistic comparisons between Kobe and other players, it never ends well.

[Captain_Obvious]

07 G6 vs GS- 8 PTS, 10 RBS, 2 AST, 1 STL, 0 BLK, 3 TOV, 2/13 FG, 0/6 3PT, 4/4 FT L


Oh god. That was Dirk's MVP year too...

*Puts homer glasses on* That never happened!

I'm a Kobe fan and all, but Jordan and LeBron are in their own little group.

[NBA4EVA2010]

good job OP... couple of myths are being exposed here. dirk and lebron chokers? false...kobe the most clutch? false.....MJ lived up to his hype? true!

agreed

[kyphi]

Career playoffs average Larry Bird ( but don't count the last 3 years because of his injuries )


164 - post season games

42.0 minutes

23.8 points

47.2 fg%

89.0 ft%

10.3 rebounds

6.5 assists

1.8 steals

0.9 block


Playoffs totals

Games: 164

Win-Lost: 99-65

Points: 3897

Rebounds: 1683

Assist: 1062

[lilroddyb]

Can someone check out Hakeem elimination games. I think He was monster in most of them

[semi-sentient]

No context is being applied whatsoever.

What context do you need for a sample size of 19 games that spans over 16 years? Even if you only count the games from 01-10 he still averaged a paltry 25/7/3.5 on 50% TS. Kobe's dropoff in games where his back is against the wall is something that we don't see from any other all time greats. I don't know why some people can't assume that Kobe is simply terrible when he's at the risk of being put in a negative light. If one has a detailed explanation on how Kobe playing bad in those 19 games isn't his fault I would love to hear it.

Do you even know what context is?

That thing sitting on top of your neck? Try using it.

[kyphi]

Can someone check out Hakeem elimination games. I think He was monster in most of them

yes, he was - I am surprised he and Bird weren't even mentioned