BSOTS: Suns in real danger of joining Bobcats, Kings

[rsavaj]

With no transcendent superstars on the rise, the Phoenix Suns run the very real risk of joining the bottom of the NBA barrel for several years to come.
...
To rise from the NBA lottery ashes, a team needs at least two star players with one of those being in the top three at his position in the game and in MVP consideration.

Without a budding pair of NBA stars, the Suns will wallow in lottery land for the foreseeable future. We are all excited by the direction of the team and the front office. But the Suns still must have one of Eric Bledsoe, Alex Len or Archie Goodwin reach their ceiling to become annual All-Star talents. And even then, the Suns will watch lottery balls bounce until that guy is joined by an even better player with MVP talent and skill.

#RigginforWiggins

But if one of those three doesn't rise to All-Star status, next year's draft won't have much impact on the Suns win total. And the lotto balls may keep bouncing for years and years to come.

More: http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2013/ ... stons-rank

Good, sobering read. You basically do need two All-Star caliber players to be successful, and we don't have any right now. We've given ourselves a better shot at getting there(Bledsoe + 2014 draft pick hopefully), but until then, we have a looooooooong way to go.

[Gorilla Warfare]

More: http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2013/ ... stons-rank

Good, sobering read. You basically do need two All-Star caliber players to be successful, and we don't have any right now. We've given ourselves a better shot at getting there(Bledsoe + 2014 draft pick hopefully), but until then, we have a looooooooong way to go.

The 2010-2011 Indiana Pacers would suggest otherwise. Pre-stud status for Paul George and Hibbert only being a decent big man, that team almost beat the Miami Heat. All based on just straight teamwork.

While I think yes it's going to be a rough year for us this season, I think the future is pretty bright for us, especially if Archie continues to be Archie, Bledsoe turns into the stud I think he's going to now that he's a starter, and we pick Wiggins, Randle, or Parker next years draft. We won't need a top 3 position player, but we would need a top 20 player to pair with them, and I honestly think Kevin Love would be the best fit for us, because of his rebounding and his ability to stretch the floor.

A future starting lineup of Dragic/Bledsoe/Wiggins/Love/Len would make me a pretty happy Suns fan.

[suns1977]

Being a lifelong fan, there's one thing I know about the Suns. They don't dilly-dally around in mediocrity for very long.

They rebounded (pun intended) from the terrible mid-80's.

They made due with small ball in the late 90's, and still found a way to be a very entertaining team to watch.

They made up for the crap in the early 00's with SSOL and arguably one of the most entertaining teams ever.

Let's not all get too crazy about the Suns being terrible for years to come. The franchise finds a way to dig from the ashes and rise like a Phoenix. (more bad puns)

[MathiasPW]

The article confuses correlation with causality.

It is not because several teams that are doing well have two superstars that it is mandatory that you have two superstars to do well.

GWF Bouncing-Boobs posted the example of the Pacers, which is the best example of that, but certainly not the only one in recent history. The same Pacers not so long ago did very well with team-based effort, as did the Pistons.

Good, strong team-culture that gets a buy-in from the players can be as powerfull as a team that has 2 superstars that carry the rest on their back. I believe McDonut and Hornacek agree with that, as they have stated several times that this season is all about establishing a culture of effort and teamplay.

[grumpysaddle]

Meh. That article is just a product of a bored summer bloggers. There's just going to be rehashing of things everyone is currently aware of until the season starts. Houston had nothing really, until they pulled off the Harden trade. I doubt Parsons would be what he was last season without Harden taking most of the pressure off of him. But yeah, I don't need to read the same things over and over about how the Suns "could" be like the Bobcats. The Bobcats never had to get rid of a superstar like Steve Nash. The Bobcats, outside of a couple playoff appearances here and there have always been trash.

If "ifs" and "buts" was candy and nuts...

[Flying Colors]

Meh. That article is just a product of a bored summer bloggers. There's just going to be rehashing of things everyone is currently aware of until the season starts. Houston had nothing really, until they pulled off the Harden trade. I doubt Parsons would be what he was last season without Harden taking most of the pressure off of him. But yeah, I don't need to read the same things over and over about how the Suns "could" be like the Bobcats. The Bobcats never had to get rid of a superstar like Steve Nash. The Bobcats, outside of a couple playoff appearances here and there have always been trash.

If "ifs" and "buts" was candy and nuts...

not even that, they only made the playoffs once and then they just procedded to get sweeped

[suns1977]

Suns and Bobcats don't even belong in the same sentence. Except for the one I just typed.

Suns are 4th winningest franchise in NBA, and the #1 winningest franchise (in all 4 major sports) without a ring.

The Bobcats.....um....yeah.

As I said before, they will come around the corner and get back to winning. They always do.

[TheSunGod]

Personally I highly doubt we'll enter that territory. Obviously after the 2010 playoff run, it was tough to see how the team was managed but now it seems we're headed on the right path. McD is doing what he can to correct the mistakes and who knows what else can happen from now until the draft. We'll be back to relevancy but it's going to take time.

[nevetsov]

I think BS has really gone down hill of late. A lot of the articles are just pessimism and speculation. So much for "bright side"...

[thamadkant]

Suns have a "clean" canvas with no "overpaid" dud on the team.

They have a GM who has stated that they will not do "stop gap" moves, they want to contend.

The team has a high ceiling players in Bledsoe, Goodwin and Len; just give them minutes, correct coaching and clear roles and they will contribute.

The Suns FO have their eyes on the 2014, 2015 talent pool, in the NBA and in the high school/college ranks.
They have cap room for NBA Free agents and via trades, and first round picks galore.




Only way to sabotage the Suns bright and high potential future is by cashing in assets now and next year for mediocre players on max or near max contracts.

[phrazbit]

Thats a pretty dumb article...

You wanna claim you need two all-stars, one of whom being elite to be a TITLE contender, sure, I'd agree with something along those lines. But to make the playoffs?!?! Thats pretty a stupid hypothesis.

Teams in just the last 2 years to prove that wrong:

2013- Bulls, Hawks, Bucks, Nuggets (the 3 seed!!!).
2012- Pacers, Sixers, Nuggets, Mavericks, Jazz

[DRK]

It's "that" time in the offseason again.

Here's a tip BSOTS, if there is nothing to write about, dont write it.

That article has not made me more informed at all about our current Team, in fact, it has made me more bored than I already am, and it is based solely on speculation and the opinion of one "professional writer."

2/10 did not impress

[bwgood77]

Thats a pretty dumb article...

You wanna claim you need two all-stars, one of whom being elite to be a TITLE contender, sure, I'd agree with something along those lines. But to make the playoffs?!?! Thats pretty a stupid hypothesis.

Teams in just the last 2 years to prove that wrong:

2013- Bulls, Hawks, Bucks, Nuggets (the 3 seed!!!).
2012- Pacers, Sixers, Nuggets, Mavericks, Jazz

I was thinking the same thing when I read the quote. Top 3 at position. Well, using math, there are 15 people who would fit that description, and 16 teams make the playoffs. There are what, 24 all stars, several teams with more than one (and some that don't make the playoffs with one, like Kyrie Irving), and yet again, 16 teams make the playoffs. So basic math didn't support that statement to begin with.

So not only is that statement wrong right now, but it could never be right.

[RunSunRun]

For every Bobcats/Kings, there's a Clipper/Grizzlies/OKC counter-point that shows that a bad team can become great with the right players. The primary problem with the Bobcats/Kings are that they have missed on many of their draft picks

Kings: Evans and Cousins hasn't worked out yet and they gave away Thomas Robinson. However, no more Maloofs so they should improve. McLemore could be the steal of the draft.

Bobcats: Okafor, Felton, Adam Morrison, D.J. Augustin, Biyombo, yuck. However, they have finally hit on a few picks in Kemba and MKG, they should be improving as well, not a fan of the Cody Zeller pick, but maybe he proves me wrong.

[BurningHeart]

How long did it take for the Clippers and Warriors to become good?

Languishing is not a good strategy.

[phrazbit]

How long did it take for the Clippers and Warriors to become good?

Languishing is not a good strategy.

The Warriors had their turn around very rapidly after their new owner replaced the front office. While the Clippers owner for decades made Sarver look like a big money spender. The Clips were willfully bad, and not in a tanking way, a "owner does not care" way.

[carey]

How long did it take for the Clippers and Warriors to become good?

Languishing is not a good strategy.

The Warriors had their turn around very rapidly after their new owner replaced the front office. While the Clippers owner for decades made Sarver look like a big money spender. The Clips were willfully bad, and not in a tanking way, a "owner does not care" way.

Come on Phraz. They already had Curry, Thompson, and a pick high enough for Barnes. They have made some good moves since then but I think they will regret letting Jack and Landry go. Workhorses, both.

[phrazbit]

The new ownership took over in the summer of 2010. Barnes wasnt even out of high school yet, a full year later they drafted Klay Thompson. They made some good cost cutting trades, the clearly started drafting better, they stopped handing out stupid long contracts, they hired a real coach. They wisely dumped Ellis (a move the fans hated at the time) because they recognized that he was an empty stat player and hindering Curry's development.

Their turn around was seriously fast once the new ownership got in there, especially considering they took over a team that was Curry and a bunch of vet players mostly on bad deals. They rapidly turned that into a young and exciting team, that some now feel is a contender.

Jack and Landry are both nice players, but Igoudala is a flat out stud, way more valuable than the two of them combined, and Barnes continued growth should more than make up for the loss of Landry.

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/nam ... e-warriors

Seriously... THAT is the team in place when Golden State's new regime took over. Seth Curry and a ton of baaaaaaad veteran players. They quickly blew that team to pieces and completely overhauled it during the next two summers.

If the Suns play their cards right there is no reason to think that they can't, largely through smart drafting, have a similar renaissance over the next few seasons. And its also a good reason to expect a complete roster overhaul along with it. Anyone on the team before McD got here I think will likely be gone by 2015-16.

[ATTL]

Now that we've actually started our rebuild instead of dicking around fighting for 9th I don't think we'll be in this slum for long. We finally have a competent GM that I have faith in making good moves for our future success. He flipped Dudley into a good expiring contract and a coveted young PG.

Goodwin has looked great in summer league and looks to be a great addition to our team. We haven't had the opportunity to see Len play but if he can get and stay healthy this has the potential to be our best draft in over a decade.

Handing out absurd contracts to middling players while making egregious draft picks will keep us in the cellar for awhile. I don't think Ryan will be so bad as to allow us to Clippers/Warriors/Raptors level cellar dwellers.

[Durins Baynes]

Being a lifelong fan, there's one thing I know about the Suns. They don't dilly-dally around in mediocrity for very long.

They rebounded (pun intended) from the terrible mid-80's.

They made due with small ball in the late 90's, and still found a way to be a very entertaining team to watch.

They made up for the crap in the early 00's with SSOL and arguably one of the most entertaining teams ever.

Let's not all get too crazy about the Suns being terrible for years to come. The franchise finds a way to dig from the ashes and rise like a Phoenix. (more bad puns)

The Suns are doing 100% the right thing by tanking (finally). That said, if you think you will rebound in a year or two you need to get ready for disappointment. The article is right- you have no star players now, and nobody who can really develop into one (not Len I suspect, and certainly not Bledsoe). I am very familiar with how the Suns turned things around in the past, but you need to come to grips with the post 99 CBA's which make this almost impossible to do (especially the newest incarnation). It's hard enough for even good teams to get star players in free agency, add to that the fact your team will be bad and is in a small market, and it's effectively impossible. Nor is reloading via trades really feasible. You can do that around the edges, but not to get the core of your team. That has to come from the draft for you guys. If done right, 3 years is probably a realistic timeframe for a good front office to rebuild a team. Given their lack of credentials I'd add 2 years on to that timeframe however, especially if the team still has the same scouts who made boneheaded moves like drafting K.Marshall.

Lakers fans are in for much of the same disappointment, though it won't be as bad there I suspect. You don't have to be the Kings, they've been managed in an appalling way. If you want my advice, the first thing your franchise should have done was hired someone credible from the Spurs front office to manage the team as your GM. There are currently about 5 other teams with ex-Spurs running their front offices, and all of them look like they're going in the right direction. And I don't mean like Steve Kerr... he was never regarded by the Spurs front office (just look at how they and other teams have never tried to bring him back), I mean guys like the Magic, Jazz, Hawks, Thunder and (to a lesser extent) the Pelicans got... people who were scouts in that front office, and rising stars looking to be poached one day so they could run their own shop.