OT: Canada vs. Brazil Aug 26th - Team Canada Discussion

[bballsparkin]

I wonder what the attendance was? Maybe I'm cheap but the ticket prices seem to be high. An exhibition game between Canada and Jamaica for 30-52 dollars? Get real. Maybe I'm wrong and it was sold out.

i believe it was standing room only.

I was there. Wasn't sold out but pretty full. My buddies kept tell me there was NHLer's in attendence but I can't remember/barely cared who they said. No big names for sure.

Ah that's cool. I'd feel better about watching the game live if there is a good showing from the crowd. I had to work but will be watching the game on Saturday.

[Weems]

Random: didn't know Carl English was quite so prolific overseas.

-6 straight seasons in Spanish ACB (best foreign domestic league), 1 season in Adriatic league (top 3 domestic league), 1 season in Italy Serie A (2nd ranked domestic league at the time)

-Lead the Spanish ACB in scoring last season with 17.2 PPG in 27.5 MPG; his shot distribution and FT to 2-PT FGA ratio was neat (7.4 2-PT FGA, 5.8 3-PT FGA, 5.1 FTA)

-Has scored 15+ PPG 5 of the last 7 seasons (consider the 40 minute games and lower scoring environment overseas) and has had over 55 TS% 6 of the last 7 seasons. Averaged 20.3 PPG on 55 TS% in Adriatic league.

-Two Eurocup appearances in which he averaged over 15.5 PPG on over 55 TS% and one mostly forgettable Euroleague appearance

-One (or more) domestic league titles. Some notable players on his ABC title-winning team included: Splitter, Huertas, Teletovic, Herrmann. Won the Croatia Cup, whatever that is.

-Played on the former teams of illustrious Raptors such as: Rasho, Garbajosa, Calderon, Ukic, David Anderson, Tabak, Mensah-Bonsu, Moiso, Baston, Archibald, and maybe more. What a wonderful list!

[Pooh_Jeter]

Is Kris Joseph still with the team?

Rautins definitely didn't do any favours for himself in that first game. Didn't shoot the ball well and made a couple bad turnovers. He will probably still make the team, but his place with the national team looks to be winding down quickly.

Doornekamp simply doesn't fit with all the young athletes this team is going to have. This is really the first I've seen of Landry, he definitely isn't the quickest or most athletic guy out there, but for a 5th big you could do a lot worse. We are going to have so much depth up front this will likely be his only shot to make an impression. Kendall is really nice, he can score and defensively he works hard.

Shepherd was fine, but his lack of outside shooting is going to hold him back. Heslip's shooting really opened things up for Canada. Joseph and Cadougan aren't good 3 point shooters so playing them and Shepherd together is tough.

I saw some people complaining about the quality of the game yesterday, but I feel the exact opposite. For an exhibition game with two teams that have had limited practice time together I thought it was pretty damn good. Looking forward to Saturday's game.

[SuperSant]

Random: didn't know Carl English was quite so prolific overseas.

-6 straight seasons in Spanish ACB (best foreign domestic league), 1 season in Adriatic league (top 3 domestic league), 1 season in Italy Serie A (2nd ranked domestic league at the time)

-Lead the Spanish ACB in scoring last season with 17.2 PPG in 27.5 MPG; his shot distribution and FT to 2-PT FGA ratio was neat (7.4 2-PT FGA, 5.8 3-PT FGA, 5.1 FTA)

-Has scored 15+ PPG 5 of the last 7 seasons (consider the 40 minute games and lower scoring environment overseas) and has had over 55 TS% 6 of the last 7 seasons. Averaged 20.3 PPG on 55 TS% in Adriatic league.

-Two Eurocup appearances in which he averaged over 15.5 PPG on over 55 TS% and one mostly forgettable Euroleague appearance

-One (or more) domestic league titles. Some notable players on his ABC title-winning team included: Splitter, Huertas, Teletovic, Herrmann. Won the Croatia Cup, whatever that is.

-Played on the former teams of illustrious Raptors such as: Rasho, Garbajosa, Calderon, Ukic, David Anderson, Tabak, Mensah-Bonsu, Moiso, Baston, Archibald, and maybe more. What a wonderful list!

Nice find!

Where is Carl English by the way? Is he injured or they just didn't want to play him?

[frumble]

Is Kris Joseph still with the team?

Rautins definitely didn't do any favours for himself in that first game. Didn't shoot the ball well and made a couple bad turnovers. He will probably still make the team, but his place with the national team looks to be winding down quickly.

Doornekamp simply doesn't fit with all the young athletes this team is going to have. This is really the first I've seen of Landry, he definitely isn't the quickest or most athletic guy out there, but for a 5th big you could do a lot worse. We are going to have so much depth up front this will likely be his only shot to make an impression. Kendall is really nice, he can score and defensively he works hard.

Shepherd was fine, but his lack of outside shooting is going to hold him back. Heslip's shooting really opened things up for Canada. Joseph and Cadougan aren't good 3 point shooters so playing them and Shepherd together is tough.

I saw some people complaining about the quality of the game yesterday, but I feel the exact opposite. For an exhibition game with two teams that have had limited practice time together I thought it was pretty damn good. Looking forward to Saturday's game.

Yes, Kris Joseph is still with the team, and I expect him to be the starting 3. Not sure if he didn't play because he is nursing an injury, because Triano didn't want to show Jamaica too much of the team they will face on Aug 30, or because Triano wanted to give a bubble guy like Doornekamp a closer look.

I think Doornekamp is competing with Landry as much as he is with Shepherd. Doornekamp has played 4 for Canada in the past, and could be the emergency 5th big.

I would list Rautins as a maybe rather than a probable. IMHO his game is too similar to that of English and Heslip, and they only need two of these guys (with English being a lock for one of those spots). D. Joseph, more so than Rautins or Heslip, can create his own shot.

Another factor in deciding among these guys is ability to serve as emergency PG behind C. Joseph and Anderson. D. Joseph played some point at Minnesota and Oregon, Rautins and English have played point for Canada in the past (results were not great), and Heslip played almost exclusively point for Canada at the University games a few weeks ago (with very good results - his unit consistently outperformed Pangos').

Look forward to seeing how D. Joseph does on Saturday. Kabongo too (though I think he is a real longshot to make the squad).

[UcanUwill]

Adriatic league is not domestic.

[Chuck Newhouse]

Anyone know if it was worth it, watching live? Thinking of buying some ticks, 30$ doesnt sound too bad, depends on the level of competition.

Wasn't pretty basketball I will tell you that.

Don't listen to this guy, it's always a good thing to support your country.

Go out and have fun on Saturday. It's likely as close as you'll get to some of these NBA guys in a much smaller setting.

No it's not...that is the talk of the brainwashed! Patriotism is massively over rated!

[MEDIC]

Wasn't pretty basketball I will tell you that.

Don't listen to this guy, it's always a good thing to support your country.

Go out and have fun on Saturday. It's likely as close as you'll get to some of these NBA guys in a much smaller setting.

No it's not...that is the talk of the brainwashed! Patriotism is massively over rated!

Absolutely nothing wrong with being proud of the country that you were born in or live in. It shapes who we are as people. You can't separate the two.

I'm not sure when this popular trend of anti-patriotism all started (didn't really hear this view until recent years.......& only on this website), but I think it's cute in a way. It is funny how these ideologies get passed around.

What's next? We shouldn't be proud of our families? Proud of who we are as individuals?

Let's just get rid of pride all together. We can all walk around hanging our heads in complete shame. Sounds like a fun place to live.

[MEDIC]

I had no idea that Junior Cadougan & Dwight Buycks were so close.

Came across this article from the Sun:

Dwight Buycks’ family helped make life comfortable for Junior Cadougan while they were at Marquette and Cadougan intends to return the favour for the new Raptors point guard.

Buycks, a Milwaukee native, and Cadougan, from Toronto, were teammates for two seasons in Wisconsin, battling for playing time and bonding in the process.

“That’s like my brother, we were the closest on the team when we were at Marquette,” Cadougan told the Sun this week.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/07/31/raptors-dwight-buycks-will-be-comfy-in-toronto

[UcanUwill]

Absolutely nothing wrong with being proud of the country that you were born in or live in. It shapes who we are as people. You can't separate the two.

I'm not sure when this popular trend of anti-patriotism all started (didn't really hear this view until recent years.......& only on this website), but I think it's cute in a way. It is funny how these ideologies get passed around.

What's next? We shouldn't be proud of our families? Proud of who we are as individuals?

Let's just get rid of pride all together. We can all walk around hanging our heads in complete shame. Sounds like a fun place to live.

Yeah, there is a difference between deserved pride and undeserved pride. I doubt most people are patriotic because they think their country earned it. Thats not how it works, it sounds loose, and Patriotism is not a loose point of view. Being proud of your country, most of the time, is like being proud of the color of your skin or hair. It is not really an accomplishment now is it?

I do support my national teams in sports, Its great, and I respect people who support their national teams, I love that, though the whole idea can get ugly at times, and at the end, there is no rational thought behind it in my opinion. Saying there is nothing wrong with being patriotic is just not true. It can create blinded following, hypocrisy (we witness this all the time in sports and politics), its sickening. Makes you feel undeserved sense of accomplishment and all that. Seriously, Patriotism is not a rational thing.

[SharoneWright]

The Rauti are expressly banished to the Canadian-basketball wilderness after Jay bounces Andy... no hard feelings?

[Chuck Newhouse]

Absolutely nothing wrong with being proud of the country that you were born in or live in. It shapes who we are as people. You can't separate the two.

I'm not sure when this popular trend of anti-patriotism all started (didn't really hear this view until recent years.......& only on this website), but I think it's cute in a way. It is funny how these ideologies get passed around.

What's next? We shouldn't be proud of our families? Proud of who we are as individuals?

Let's just get rid of pride all together. We can all walk around hanging our heads in complete shame. Sounds like a fun place to live.

Yeah, there is a difference between deserved pride and undeserved pride. I doubt most people are patriotic because they think their country earned it. Thats not how it works, it sounds loose, and Patriotism is not a loose point of view. Being proud of your country, most of the time, is like being proud of the color of your skin or hair. It is not really an accomplishment now is it?

I do support my national teams in sports, Its great, and I respect people who support their national teams, I love that, though the whole idea can get ugly at times, and at the end, there is no rational thought behind it in my opinion. Saying there is nothing wrong with being patriotic is just not true. It can create blinded following, hypocrisy (we witness this all the time in sports and politics), its sickening. Makes you feel undeserved sense of accomplishment and all that. Seriously, Patriotism is not a rational thing.

That is so well said and exactly the point I was making. The original quote that I was contradicting used the word "always" and that is the way patriotism gets you into trouble. "One world" is a much more rational thought process. Patriotism is something like racism's ugly step brother.

[YoungD23]

I had no idea that Junior Cadougan & Dwight Buycks were so close.

Came across this article from the Sun:

Dwight Buycks’ family helped make life comfortable for Junior Cadougan while they were at Marquette and Cadougan intends to return the favour for the new Raptors point guard.

Buycks, a Milwaukee native, and Cadougan, from Toronto, were teammates for two seasons in Wisconsin, battling for playing time and bonding in the process.

“That’s like my brother, we were the closest on the team when we were at Marquette,” Cadougan told the Sun this week.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/07/31/raptors-dwight-buycks-will-be-comfy-in-toronto

I think he was hanging out with Bennett too.

[Reg00]

Absolutely nothing wrong with being proud of the country that you were born in or live in. It shapes who we are as people. You can't separate the two.

I'm not sure when this popular trend of anti-patriotism all started (didn't really hear this view until recent years.......& only on this website), but I think it's cute in a way. It is funny how these ideologies get passed around.

What's next? We shouldn't be proud of our families? Proud of who we are as individuals?

Let's just get rid of pride all together. We can all walk around hanging our heads in complete shame. Sounds like a fun place to live.

Yeah, there is a difference between deserved pride and undeserved pride. I doubt most people are patriotic because they think their country earned it. Thats not how it works, it sounds loose, and Patriotism is not a loose point of view. Being proud of your country, most of the time, is like being proud of the color of your skin or hair. It is not really an accomplishment now is it?

I do support my national teams in sports, Its great, and I respect people who support their national teams, I love that, though the whole idea can get ugly at times, and at the end, there is no rational thought behind it in my opinion. Saying there is nothing wrong with being patriotic is just not true. It can create blinded following, hypocrisy (we witness this all the time in sports and politics), its sickening. Makes you feel undeserved sense of accomplishment and all that. Seriously, Patriotism is not a rational thing.

That is so well said and exactly the point I was making. The original quote that I was contradicting used the word "always" and that is the way patriotism gets you into trouble. "One world" is a much more rational thought process. Patriotism is something like racism's ugly step brother.

I think Nationalism is the word usually used to describe patriotic feelings gone wrong. Being blindly nationalistic and the "greatest nation in the world" thinking.

Being patriotic is being passionately involved/interested with the world around you. Because we all belong in a world organized along state boundaries (until my anarchist utopia happens!), the term Canada actually best describes how a society behaves and is viewed in the global sphere. Our domestic/foreign polices helps shape who you are (even if you don't want to admit it) and how the world sees us. Ya like healthcare? Ya like peace keeping? You like calmer attitudes toward gay marriage and pot use (although Harper could change that)? All things fought for by patriotic Canadians.

You can "always" be patriotic, but that doesn't mean always agreeing with a fellow Canadian or going along with any Nazi, fascist, anarchistic government policy out there.

In this case; I love basketball, hugely passionate about it. The national team represent fellow Canadians playing a sport I would like to see become a bigger force in, so I support them. Although I'm one of the types that can watch Canadian high school basketball on Rogers and still have a good time.

Waiting until they are a great team in order to care enough about them is pretty apathetic. I don't think we'd have healthcare if people only waited until they personally were sick. I actually don't get how someone who enjoys basketball wouldn't want to support it on a local level.

In fact not being patriotic, and not caring, can allow a lot of people do terrible things in government and the world at large. Or in this case, not having a good national basketball program (which for me is certainly as important as healthcare or our drug policy)

[frumble]

The Rauti are expressly banished to the Canadian-basketball wilderness after Jay bounces Andy... no hard feelings?

Was Rautins cut or is this just a prediction?
As I noted above, I would not be surprised if Rautins did not make the team, but I would be surprised if the cut came before Monday.

[MEDIC]

Absolutely nothing wrong with being proud of the country that you were born in or live in. It shapes who we are as people. You can't separate the two.

I'm not sure when this popular trend of anti-patriotism all started (didn't really hear this view until recent years.......& only on this website), but I think it's cute in a way. It is funny how these ideologies get passed around.

What's next? We shouldn't be proud of our families? Proud of who we are as individuals?

Let's just get rid of pride all together. We can all walk around hanging our heads in complete shame. Sounds like a fun place to live.

Yeah, there is a difference between deserved pride and undeserved pride. I doubt most people are patriotic because they think their country earned it.

I can only speak for myself as a Canadian in terms of patriotism. Every country has its warts and Canada certainly has some, but even you and I as individuals do. Nothing is perfect.

Overall, I think Canada is a great country. Very peaceful & for the most part open minded & accepting.

If Canada suddenly started initiating attacks on other countries, or violent internal fighting (political/ religious), that pride would quickly fade.

You are going with the notion that most people are sheep that simply follow political lead. As Canadians we have developed a mindset to form our own opinions as individuals & not simply follow big brother.

Canadians are far from jingoistic. If we want to agrue jingoism vs patriotism, then I might agree a little more. If we want to argue that patriotism (or as Reg said......nationalism) in non-democratic, society can be dangerous, I can't disagree. Painting every country/ political system with the same brush is wrong though.

I think Nationalism is the word usually used to describe patriotic feelings gone wrong. Being blindly nationalistic and the "greatest nation in the world" thinking.

Being patriotic is being passionately involved/interested with the world around you. Because we all belong in a world organized along state boundaries (until my anarchist utopia happens!), the term Canada actually best describes how a society behaves and is viewed in the global sphere. Our domestic/foreign polices helps shape who you are (even if you don't want to admit it) and how the world sees us. Ya like healthcare? Ya like peace keeping? You like calmer attitudes toward gay marriage and pot use (although Harper could change that)? All things fought for by patriotic Canadians.

You can "always" be patriotic, but that doesn't mean always agreeing with a fellow Canadian or going along with any Nazi, fascist, anarchistic government policy out there.

In this case; I love basketball, hugely passionate about it. The national team represent fellow Canadians playing a sport I would like to see become a bigger force in, so I support them. Although I'm one of the types that can watch Canadian high school basketball on Rogers and still have a good time.

Waiting until they are a great team in order to care enough about them is pretty apathetic. I don't think we'd have healthcare if people only waited until they personally were sick. I actually don't get how someone who enjoys basketball wouldn't want to support it on a local level.

In fact not being patriotic, and not caring, can allow a lot of people do terrible things in government and the world at large. Or in this case, not having a good national basketball program (which for me is certainly as important as healthcare or our drug policy)

Excellent post Reg00.

It's a GOOD thing to have pride in your community (which a country essentially is). To feel that you are part of a larger group that share the good values/ beliefs that you have. It helps us look out for one another. Some countries still have infighting because of drastic political, social or religious views. There is too much segregation within the country.

I have pride in the fact that I believe that citizens shouldn't have the right to carry guns to defend themselves. That has been Canada's influence on me. Who knows what my belief would be if I was raised in Florida or Ohio.

If the world as a whole could follow Canada's lead, it would be much more peaceful overall. If you honestly believe this notion (as I do), why wouldn't you feel patriotic about your country?

[SharoneWright]

The Rauti are expressly banished to the Canadian-basketball wilderness after Jay bounces Andy... no hard feelings?

Was Rautins cut or is this just a prediction?
As I noted above, I would not be surprised if Rautins did not make the team, but I would be surprised if the cut came before Monday.

Sorry - just a prediction because I can see it happening followed by Leo continuing to contort himself into complimenting Canada Basketball and Steve Nash and Jay and all the guys that chose against both him and his son.

[frumble]

The Rauti are expressly banished to the Canadian-basketball wilderness after Jay bounces Andy... no hard feelings?

Was Rautins cut or is this just a prediction?
As I noted above, I would not be surprised if Rautins did not make the team, but I would be surprised if the cut came before Monday.

Sorry - just a prediction because I can see it happening followed by Leo continuing to contort himself into complimenting Canada Basketball and Steve Nash and Jay and all the guys that chose against both him and his son.

What I find funny is how Leo and the rest of the crew go on about how much the talent has improved over the last couple of years, implicitly making excuses for Leo's disastrous performance at the helm.

With the absence of Olynyk, Bennett, and Wiggins, the talent on this team isn't much better than the team at the 2011 Tournament of the Americas that went 2-5 and finished 6th under Leo.

At guard/wing, the roster is almost the same. Anderson, C. Joseph, English, Shepherd, Rautins and Doornekamp were on the 11 team and probably make this team. The only changes are Denham Brown being replaced by K. Joseph.

Brown and K. Joseph are very similar in that both were fringe NBAers (2nd round picks, D-league), although K. Joseph did at least have a cup of coffee in the NBA.

Maybe also D. Joseph makes it over Doornekamp or Rautins, and that would be another change, but likely not significant.

In any case, not an appreciable difference in the two rosters in terms of guards/wings.

Up front, Kendall and Anthony were on the 11 team and will be on the 13 team.

Landry instead of Ferguson as the 5th big is likely an improvement, but the 5th big isn't likely to play much.

That leaves Olynyk and Young being replaced by Thompson and Nicholson.
Maybe slight advantage to TT and Nicholson, but Olynyk was very good in 11 and Young brought a ton of international experience to the table, and I am not sure how well suited TT is for the international game.

Bottom line is that there won't be much turnover from the 11 team to the 13 team.

[DG88]

Was listening to G98.7 and the program World Beat Sports was on. They interviewed Johnny Williams the President of the Jamaican Basketball Association. He played in the D-League and even had a chance to work in an NBA office, but chose to help run the Jamaican Basketball Program. It was a pretty informative on the history of basketball on the island. Basketball has been around before the NBA even started. It's gone through highs and lows throughout the decades. Williams believes that basketball is the fast growing sport in the island. This an island where track and field, soccer and cricket dominate the sports landscape. A lot of the players on the team are of Jamaican descent. They've tried to recruit those players like Roy Hibbert, Ryan Hollins and Patrick Ewing Junior. They tried to get Tristan Thompson and Anthony Bennett both who are of Jamaican descent. The team hasn't even had training camp yet. Just 2 practices and 1 shoot around, so they're not up to game speed yet. They're hoping to get a spot in the for the World Championships. It was a nice interview. I knew the sport was growing on the island and it's good to see that it's in good hands.

[itbobby007]

Grange: Thompson going righty an historic move