Steve Nash a top 20 PG?

[redjays]

We will all see and enjoy a different Nash next year... He will impose his will on the team and be a leader... He deferred to Kobe too much last year...

I really hope this is true. When Nash was injured with the leg in the beginning of the season people said that when he comes back with mike d as coach he was gonna kill. Look how that turned out

That wasn't on Nash. We never found a way to get Kobe/Dwight/Nash/Pau firing on all cylinders. Though when we'd have 3 of them, things would look fine. With Dwight gone it means we can do more pick-and-roll, more MDA-style offense, rather than getting Dwight post touches.

This also places Pau in a role with more responsibility and he's gonna flourish. Nash will both feed into and feed off of that. So long as he's healthy.

The MDA offense!!!?? You still want that crap around here? How did we fare last season with that in place? Once the system was changed to a slow pace post up style offense at the end of the year the team went 28-12. Why would he go back to that stupid up tempo offense when this team is not built that way. Jordan hill and pau gasol are not running up and down the floor, and the guy you expect to run that offense is 40? Not to mention his fellow backcourt running mate is coming off major surgery to his Achilles. I don't see them running that to any success

[crazyeights]

I really hope this is true. When Nash was injured with the leg in the beginning of the season people said that when he comes back with mike d as coach he was gonna kill. Look how that turned out

That wasn't on Nash. We never found a way to get Kobe/Dwight/Nash/Pau firing on all cylinders. Though when we'd have 3 of them, things would look fine. With Dwight gone it means we can do more pick-and-roll, more MDA-style offense, rather than getting Dwight post touches.

This also places Pau in a role with more responsibility and he's gonna flourish. Nash will both feed into and feed off of that. So long as he's healthy.

The MDA offense!!!?? You still want that crap around here? How did we fare last season with that in place? Once the system was changed to a slow pace post up style offense at the end of the year the team went 28-12. Why would he go back to that stupid up tempo offense when this team is not built that way. Jordan hill and pau gasol are not running up and down the floor, and the guy you expect to run that offense is 40? Not to mention his fellow backcourt running mate is coming off major surgery to his Achilles. I don't see them running that to any success

you're really something special.

Mike D'Antoni doesn't have ONE offense. He has principles. Read everything that he's been saying. Obviously we're not doing 7 seconds or less, genius. His principles are about setting a lot of screens, the ball finding movement, better spacing and outside shooting. Hopefully this means running it more through Nash and Pau than Kobe ISOs. Hopefully that means more pick-and-roll. Hopefully it's cohesive and fluid.

I said "MDA style offense," but you appear to just want to argue with people, maybe call an 800 number or do some yoga. We've got Nash for the next two years, if you can't handle that, then don't watch.

[redjays]

That wasn't on Nash. We never found a way to get Kobe/Dwight/Nash/Pau firing on all cylinders. Though when we'd have 3 of them, things would look fine. With Dwight gone it means we can do more pick-and-roll, more MDA-style offense, rather than getting Dwight post touches.

This also places Pau in a role with more responsibility and he's gonna flourish. Nash will both feed into and feed off of that. So long as he's healthy.

The MDA offense!!!?? You still want that crap around here? How did we fare last season with that in place? Once the system was changed to a slow pace post up style offense at the end of the year the team went 28-12. Why would he go back to that stupid up tempo offense when this team is not built that way. Jordan hill and pau gasol are not running up and down the floor, and the guy you expect to run that offense is 40? Not to mention his fellow backcourt running mate is coming off major surgery to his Achilles. I don't see them running that to any success

you're really something special.

Mike D'Antoni doesn't have ONE offense. He has principles. Read everything that he's been saying. Obviously we're not doing 7 seconds or less, genius. His principles are about setting a lot of screens, the ball finding movement, better spacing and outside shooting. Hopefully this means running it more through Nash and Pau than Kobe ISOs. Hopefully that means more pick-and-roll. Hopefully it's cohesive and fluid.

I said "MDA style offense," but you appear to just want to argue with people, maybe call an 800 number or do some yoga. We've got Nash for the next two years, if you can't handle that, then don't watch.

He doesn't have one style offense? I beg to differ. I saw him try to fit a square peg into a round hole last year. He was running the run n gun score 120 pts first offense. He had Gasol coming off the bench. He had gasol sitting on the bench in crunch time. Kobe had to hit him upside the head and make this team slow it down. Melo also ran this fool out of NY cause he tried making that team something they're not

[crazyeights]

The MDA offense!!!?? You still want that crap around here? How did we fare last season with that in place? Once the system was changed to a slow pace post up style offense at the end of the year the team went 28-12. Why would he go back to that stupid up tempo offense when this team is not built that way. Jordan hill and pau gasol are not running up and down the floor, and the guy you expect to run that offense is 40? Not to mention his fellow backcourt running mate is coming off major surgery to his Achilles. I don't see them running that to any success

you're really something special.

Mike D'Antoni doesn't have ONE offense. He has principles. Read everything that he's been saying. Obviously we're not doing 7 seconds or less, genius. His principles are about setting a lot of screens, the ball finding movement, better spacing and outside shooting. Hopefully this means running it more through Nash and Pau than Kobe ISOs. Hopefully that means more pick-and-roll. Hopefully it's cohesive and fluid.

I said "MDA style offense," but you appear to just want to argue with people, maybe call an 800 number or do some yoga. We've got Nash for the next two years, if you can't handle that, then don't watch.

He doesn't have one style offense? I beg to differ. I saw him try to fit a square peg into a round hole last year. He was running the run n gun score 120 pts first offense. He had Gasol coming off the bench. He had gasol sitting on the bench in crunch time. Kobe had to hit him upside the head and make this team slow it down. Melo also ran this fool out of NY cause he tried making that team something they're not

Last year was just that: last year.

Move on.

[redjays]

you're really something special.

Mike D'Antoni doesn't have ONE offense. He has principles. Read everything that he's been saying. Obviously we're not doing 7 seconds or less, genius. His principles are about setting a lot of screens, the ball finding movement, better spacing and outside shooting. Hopefully this means running it more through Nash and Pau than Kobe ISOs. Hopefully that means more pick-and-roll. Hopefully it's cohesive and fluid.

I said "MDA style offense," but you appear to just want to argue with people, maybe call an 800 number or do some yoga. We've got Nash for the next two years, if you can't handle that, then don't watch.

He doesn't have one style offense? I beg to differ. I saw him try to fit a square peg into a round hole last year. He was running the run n gun score 120 pts first offense. He had Gasol coming off the bench. He had gasol sitting on the bench in crunch time. Kobe had to hit him upside the head and make this team slow it down. Melo also ran this fool out of NY cause he tried making that team something they're not

Last year was just that: last year.

Move on.

What do you mean last year was last year so just move on? The present is based on what's happened in the past. The bobcats had a bad year last year but hey this upcoming season they are going to contend for a title, you know why? Cause last year was just last year

[crazyeights]

you're really something special.

Mike D'Antoni doesn't have ONE offense. He has principles. Read everything that he's been saying. Obviously we're not doing 7 seconds or less, genius. His principles are about setting a lot of screens, the ball finding movement, better spacing and outside shooting. Hopefully this means running it more through Nash and Pau than Kobe ISOs. Hopefully that means more pick-and-roll. Hopefully it's cohesive and fluid.

I said "MDA style offense," but you appear to just want to argue with people, maybe call an 800 number or do some yoga. We've got Nash for the next two years, if you can't handle that, then don't watch.

He doesn't have one style offense? I beg to differ. I saw him try to fit a square peg into a round hole last year. He was running the run n gun score 120 pts first offense. He had Gasol coming off the bench. He had gasol sitting on the bench in crunch time. Kobe had to hit him upside the head and make this team slow it down. Melo also ran this fool out of NY cause he tried making that team something they're not

Last year was just that: last year.

Move on.

Also, work on your reading comprehension. That's two posts in a row where you've misrepresented me. Get this:

There is a difference between "ONE offense" and then conflating it with an "MDA style offense."

It's, as I said before, about principles.

Mike D'Antoni has said before that he didn't necessarily want a SSOL offense. It's about his principles, the flow of the ball, having the team moving, screening, and shooting in a rhythm.

Yeah, he pushed the pace before, because that's what MANAGEMENT hired him to do. Your thread bitching about Nash and now MDA is pointless, because you're not accepting reality. You wanna scapegoat MDA? Fine, but why hire the guy if you're not going to let him coach. And guess what? You give Kobe praise for ultimately MDA's call to change it up....so when a guy changes, it's someone else's success, and when the guy doesn't change from the get go it's his own fault? Try some consistency in your nagging.

MDA will encourage guys to get in the offense, to set screens, pick-and-roll, space the floor, and we'll modify it to fit our roster's needs. But if you expected a coach to walk on 5 games in-- he himself on pain medication, coming out of surgery-- with a completely modified offense, while he was trying to get a fledgling team back on track, while he's juggling 4 superstar's egos, the most important to executing this new change, Nash, was injured, another of which, Dwight, had one foot out the door (the dude never gave MDA a chance, if Dwight would have committed to Mike's pick-and-roll centric vision for him [which btw: DWIGHT SHOULD HAVE] we'd have had a much better season)--all this while apparently having to appease troll fans who can't understand that what your expectations are don't fit reality.

What is it that you want? Who exactly are you mad at? Are you upset with Father Time, because Nash is coming on 40? Are you sad that we didn't hire Phil Jackson? You pissed that Dwight left? You scared Kobe won't be the same? Let it all out, brother...

Why you mad?

[what would jack bauer do?]

Didn't Rick Carlisle admit that the 2011 championship Mavs essentially ran the D'antoni offense? Not the SSOL portion of it, but the floor spacing, ball movement and 3pt shooting? Yeah it's that same offense that the knicks and I think warriors are mimicking at times right now.

This current roster has guys capable of lighting it up from outside. With Gasol, Nash, and Kobe's passing ability and takeover ability; we have the potential to be unstoppable to a point where the offense will be effortless. No more of that huge struggle that was last year. And yeah I know the game is won inside out, which is why I'm optimistic about this season. Unlike other D'antoni style teams in the past we have big guns in Gasol and Bryant that can do work in the post when the game turns into a grind it out playoff-style game later in the season and into the post season. We have unstoppable half court options much like Dirk was for the Mavs with that 17ft fadeaway jumper in 2011.

I've always thought we won our last two championships despite our 3 point shooting. Kobe/Gasol/Odom were so dominant we willed our way to championships. We haven't been stacked with good shooters like this in a long long time.

[JohnVancouver]

27 pots and ... waived

[gotokyo]

So Nash is the 34th best point guard in a league with 30 teams?



Good work OP. Good work.

[redjays]

He doesn't have one style offense? I beg to differ. I saw him try to fit a square peg into a round hole last year. He was running the run n gun score 120 pts first offense. He had Gasol coming off the bench. He had gasol sitting on the bench in crunch time. Kobe had to hit him upside the head and make this team slow it down. Melo also ran this fool out of NY cause he tried making that team something they're not

Last year was just that: last year.

Move on.

Also, work on your reading comprehension. That's two posts in a row where you've misrepresented me. Get this:

There is a difference between "ONE offense" and then conflating it with an "MDA style offense."

It's, as I said before, about principles.

Mike D'Antoni has said before that he didn't necessarily want a SSOL offense. It's about his principles, the flow of the ball, having the team moving, screening, and shooting in a rhythm.

Yeah, he pushed the pace before, because that's what MANAGEMENT hired him to do. Your thread bitching about Nash and now MDA is pointless, because you're not accepting reality. You wanna scapegoat MDA? Fine, but why hire the guy if you're not going to let him coach. And guess what? You give Kobe praise for ultimately MDA's call to change it up....so when a guy changes, it's someone else's success, and when the guy doesn't change from the get go it's his own fault? Try some consistency in your nagging.

MDA will encourage guys to get in the offense, to set screens, pick-and-roll, space the floor, and we'll modify it to fit our roster's needs. But if you expected a coach to walk on 5 games in-- he himself on pain medication, coming out of surgery-- with a completely modified offense, while he was trying to get a fledgling team back on track, while he's juggling 4 superstar's egos, the most important to executing this new change, Nash, was injured, another of which, Dwight, had one foot out the door (the dude never gave MDA a chance, if Dwight would have committed to Mike's pick-and-roll centric vision for him [which btw: DWIGHT SHOULD HAVE] we'd have had a much better season)--all this while apparently having to appease troll fans who can't understand that what your expectations are don't fit reality.

What is it that you want? Who exactly are you mad at? Are you upset with Father Time, because Nash is coming on 40? Are you sad that we didn't hire Phil Jackson? You pissed that Dwight left? You scared Kobe won't be the same? Let it all out, brother...

Why you mad?

I'm mad people bring up Steve Nash as a positive when refereeing to the lakers chances this year. He's an average starter at best now. I'm mad management got Nash at his ridiculous salary when he's 40 years old. I'm mad management currently has no direction. They want to get better? You do that though the draft. You don't get a good pick when you sign guys like Nick young and Kaman. Those guys are keeping you good enough to get bounced in the 1st round. They are gonna be hovering around the 8/9 slot which offers no decent position in the draft. Also you hire MDA to run an up tempo offense?? You have a 40 year old PG. How is that supposed to work? Everyone brags about this "cap space" they're gonna have. Man they ain't signing crap next year. Lebron ain't coming that's all that's worth anything. Indy is matching whatever offer PG gets.

[redjays]

Didn't Rick Carlisle admit that the 2011 championship Mavs essentially ran the D'antoni offense? Not the SSOL portion of it, but the floor spacing, ball movement and 3pt shooting? Yeah it's that same offense that the knicks and I think warriors are mimicking at times right now.

This current roster has guys capable of lighting it up from outside. With Gasol, Nash, and Kobe's passing ability and takeover ability; we have the potential to be unstoppable to a point where the offense will be effortless. No more of that huge struggle that was last year. And yeah I know the game is won inside out, which is why I'm optimistic about this season. Unlike other D'antoni style teams in the past we have big guns in Gasol and Bryant that can do work in the post when the game turns into a grind it out playoff-style game later in the season and into the post season. We have unstoppable half court options much like Dirk was for the Mavs with that 17ft fadeaway jumper in 2011.

I've always thought we won our last two championships despite our 3 point shooting. Kobe/Gasol/Odom were so dominant we willed our way to championships. We haven't been stacked with good shooters like this in a long long time.

Who are the good shooters?

[redjays]

So Nash is the 34th best point guard in a league with 30 teams?



Good work OP. Good work.

In my opinion, at times he is. There are such things as backup PGs. And last season got balled up by Darren Collison with Dallas( now a backup with the clippers) Thats just one example

[what would jack bauer do?]

Didn't Rick Carlisle admit that the 2011 championship Mavs essentially ran the D'antoni offense? Not the SSOL portion of it, but the floor spacing, ball movement and 3pt shooting? Yeah it's that same offense that the knicks and I think warriors are mimicking at times right now.

This current roster has guys capable of lighting it up from outside. With Gasol, Nash, and Kobe's passing ability and takeover ability; we have the potential to be unstoppable to a point where the offense will be effortless. No more of that huge struggle that was last year. And yeah I know the game is won inside out, which is why I'm optimistic about this season. Unlike other D'antoni style teams in the past we have big guns in Gasol and Bryant that can do work in the post when the game turns into a grind it out playoff-style game later in the season and into the post season. We have unstoppable half court options much like Dirk was for the Mavs with that 17ft fadeaway jumper in 2011.

I've always thought we won our last two championships despite our 3 point shooting. Kobe/Gasol/Odom were so dominant we willed our way to championships. We haven't been stacked with good shooters like this in a long long time.

Who are the good shooters?

Well Nick Young is geared to take Metta's minutes. And he's a much more pure and natural shooter. Wesley Johnson is more of a pure shooter than Metta despite his numbers, 33.6% on his career (we'll see how he does on a team with a lot more open looks available than in Minnesota and PHX). Nash and Blake are returning, though Blake's minutes are gonna be cut a lot. Farmar is a good shooter as well. Meeks is really just a streaky volume shooter and I doubt he'll be a huge staple in our rotation, but still he's adequate. And Kobe is Kobe, he's always been a great shooter when he isn't basically running point. Kobe's outside percentages tend to drop as he drives more and draws fouls, plays point, and defends opposing pgs. His jump shooting was spectacular last year in November and December up until he was asked to do the bulk of the pg work. Tends to be the story of his career, great shooting from outside the first half of the season then it dips the second half of the season as he tends to drive and post up more often.

Career 3pt shooting
Metta- 34.2%

Young- 37.4%
Johnson- 33.6%
Blake- 38.5%
Farmar- 36.7%
Nash- 42.8%

But Young eating Metta's minutes will be huge in terms of outside shooting. With Gasol and Kobe's ability to draw double teams in the post we could potentially see 4 players near 40% in Nash, Young, Farmar, and Blake. Yeah, Farmar is a better shooter off the bounce, but he'll get much more rhythm since he's gonna have much more freedom than he's ever had in the past here in LA. He did shoot 44% from threes his last year in Brooklyn.

Just remember the equivalent of shooting 45% in 2-pointers is 30% from 3's. Hence the huge success of the Spurs, Warriors, and Knicks last year. Don't worry Kobe and Gasol will still be primed to do work in the half court come playoff time though.

[mcscotty]

Farmar put up impressive numbers overseas, as well.

[laduane1]

Top 20, yes maybe 10 years ago. He will be 40 soon. Why did the Lakers give up two #2 picks and I believe two #1 picks. Lakers could have used those assets to find younger players. Nash is here for another 2 years. Lets hope he can stay healthy and is worth the over price they paid to get him.

[Vae Victus]

[/quote]I'm mad people bring up Steve Nash as a positive when refereeing to the lakers chances this year. He's an average starter at best now. I'm mad management got Nash at his ridiculous salary when he's 40 years old. I'm mad management currently has no direction. They want to get better? You do that though the draft. You don't get a good pick when you sign guys like Nick young and Kaman. Those guys are keeping you good enough to get bounced in the 1st round. They are gonna be hovering around the 8/9 slot which offers no decent position in the draft. Also you hire MDA to run an up tempo offense?? You have a 40 year old PG. How is that supposed to work? Everyone brags about this "cap space" they're gonna have. Man they ain't signing crap next year. Lebron ain't coming that's all that's worth anything. Indy is matching whatever offer PG gets.[/quote]

Yea +1 all the way here. Unless Nash somehow brought the Phoenix Suns staff with him and can at least channel 2011 Nash, we're so freaking boned unless Kobe also finds a way to turn back the clock. Hell we also need Pau to give us 09/10 levels as well to have a chance at a championship.

The Lakers management screwed up big time TRADING for and SIGNING Nash to that ridiculous contract of his (1 year too long). Dwight bolting at least means you get monster capspace and its not like we traded anything of real value for him (either 1 year of healthy of gimp Bynum, regardless Dwight would provide greater value). I'm sure we'd all feel a helluva lot better if we entered 2013/14 with ZERO contracts on the books and with all of our 1st round picks. Instead we got like picks every other year AND have old worthless 42 year old Nash eating up 9 mil. Oh AND we gave up unprotected 1st rounders in an era where we may just purely suck due to bad luck (hellooooo Dwight bolting).

The Lakers future is very bleak and a huge reason for it is due to Nash.

However, at this point as a fan looking for a shred of hope. With Nash essentially given the keys to the kingdom due to no choice hopefully he can give us 28 mins a game of elite offensive production. Kobe comes back mid season and plays strong the rest of the way, Pau is reinvigorated due to having the low block all to himself til Kobe comes back and no Dwight. At the very we'd rack up a decent regular season and be an entertaining knockout 1st round team.

[Tee212]

this was never a topic the day we signed him, after his injury and down season was the only reason for this thread. not warranted imo. judge him after this season.

[IamBBAnalysis]

Top 20, yes maybe 10 years ago. He will be 40 soon. Why did the Lakers give up two #2 picks and I believe two #1 picks. Lakers could have used those assets to find younger players. Nash is here for another 2 years. Lets hope he can stay healthy and is worth the over price they paid to get him.

Because Nash was an all-star that season before he signed (yes, he made the all-star team for a weak Suns team...that is how good he was playing). And because they wanted Howard to come and to play with a quality pg?

[IamBBAnalysis]

this was never a topic the day we signed him, after his injury and down season was the only reason for this thread. not warranted imo. judge him after this season.

Right. This would be the year to judge Nash and Laker FO for giving him the contract. Last year it was not just the injury but also the multiple coaches and being asked to try to run the pick and roll with a player that didn't want to and couldn't catch a bounce pass (Howard obviously). Its too bad things didn't work out last season and now we can see the reason "why". However, I wouldn't classify Nash as a mistake yet....like other things clearly were mistakes (pairing Howard with Gasol and Nash, not getting shooters last season, the coaching mess, etc).

[Tee212]

I think if howard made bynums ft% we would at least have 7-10 more wins. gasol and ab worked pretty well together for the most part. Nash decision making on the floor and fg/ft/3p's can and will make gasol and kobe more lethal. He also makes left and right handed point blank layups which is something we can all be happy about coughs ...fisher.