Please critique my commentary

[jazzfan1971]

#6 - Los Angeles Clippers

PG - Chris Paul, Darren Collison
SG - J.J. Redick, Jamal Crawford
SF - Jared Dudley, Matt Barnes
PF - Blake Griffin, Byron Mullens
C - DeAndre Jordan, Ryan Hollins
D - Willie Green, Reggie Bullock

Chris Paul said that the Clippers' season "will definitely go as Blake goes." I can't disagree with Chris Paul on this one. This team reminds me a little of the Jazz. Stockton and Malone - Paul and Griffin. Redick and Dudley - Hornacek and Russel. Jordan - Ostertag. Mullens - Okur. It's not a perfect comparison to be sure. But, you get a hint of what the Clippers could become. And that is going to land squarely on Blake Griffin's shoulders. Can he be a hall of fame player? Can he be good enough to build around? I think that's the question that needs to be answered.

Griffin's production has gone down for 2 consecutive years now with his point and rebound production dropping each year. That's not a good sign for a 24 year old. His numbers should be on the incline at this point of his development if he's going to be a franchise player. But, I think there is hope for Blake. He's going to be surrounded by shooters, especially when they run Mullens at 5 (which looks like it could be often to my eye) and have one of the top passers/creators in the league to get him easy looks. Opposing coaches will have some tough decisions to make when they see a lineup of Paul, Redick, Dudley, Griffin, and Mullens. Who do you leave to help defend Griffin in that scenario? It's a much easier decision when Jordan is on the floor. I'm of the belief that with the additional shooting and a new coach that Blake Griffin's numbers and impact are going to exceed most folks expectations. That's why I have the Clippers as the #2 team in the West.

I love the additions the Clippers made this year. Redick, Dudley, Mullens, and Collison are all fantastic additions by my eye; and going from Del Negro to Doc Rivers should be a huge boost as well. I just wish the frontcourt was deep enough to not have to have to list Ryan Hollins. If you have to list Ryan Hollins in your 10 man depth chart you know you are lacking in quality bigs. Maybe a trade or signing is forthcoming. I'd like to think so. It's time to go all in if you are listening Clipper front office.

They need some health, and signing another big that can walk and chew gum at the same time would be a bonus, but, if all goes well I could easily see the Clippers as the West's representatives in the coming year's finals. They will definitely go as far as Blake goes. Time to step up big fella.

Projected record: 56/26

[TheNewEra]

I would just say the decline of Griffin is by circumstances. The first year was due to adjusting to having Chris Paul on the team with good depth down later on. Last year was the same thing production went down but so did minutes and shot attempts . I do think things need to change a a bit maybe Blake needs to be more focused on.

[Neddy]

blake's numbers went down because he played less minutes via vinny del's decision. his per 36 numbers stayed the same while his efficiency went up each year. his rebounding took a small hit because he was taking more mid range Js and he did make them at a much improved % than previous years.

nothing to see here.

[jazzfan1971]

I think you are missing the rationale for Vinny playing him less minutes.

[McAdoo]

Blakes average minutes also went down since the Clippers bench would come in and blow teams out so that the starters wouldn't have to play in a lot of fourth quarters.

[TheNewEra]

Clips were blowing out teams by default he did not have to play more anytime a game was close he was in the game. Its not like a better player was behind him his time went down and Ronny, Hollins and Odom all got more burn.

[QRich3]

I think you're falling for the same mistake most people does which is looking at Blake's raw numbers and think he's regressed. His offensive efficiency has improved, as has his overall defense and he plays with a bit more poise now. His offensive efficiency numbers already look a lot like Malone's peak numbers, obviously he took more shots ang got more to the line where he was a good shooter, and I'd love for Blake to improve there, but he's not the same kind of player so it's not fair to compare him like that. I think it wouldn't necessarily be better for us if Griffin started taking 4 or 5 more shots a night even if he did it on good %, we have a lot more options to score and it's good that the role players are involved in the offense for them to buy in. Definitely don't want us to become a two man show on offense.

What we need is being able to play top tier defense when the occasion requires it, and Jordan's improvement is the key for that. If he can become a high impact defender and we can play defense at a top 5 rate, we wouldn't need any vast improvement in our offense to be real contenders, but that's a big if. Doc has spoken about DJ's improvement as if it was already a fact, hopefully he's right with his vision.

[mttwlsn16]

Ya. Like everyone else said. His numbers went down bc of less minutes. He played less minutes bc of many blowouts. His per 36 has been right about the same all along.

[jazzfan1971]

I'm not 100% convinced on the blowout argument. For instance Lebron played 37.9 mpg last year. I'm guessing Miami had as many blowouts as the Clippers (I could be wrong). I'm just not sure I can attribute his reduction in minutes to blowouts. (Durant played 38.5 minutes and judging by win differential they probably had the most blowouts in the league)

Convince me.

[og15]

You'll have to go watch the games, or just look at Paul's minutes (33.4) and the minutes of all the starters. Why do you think he was playing less? Clippers bench was great on defense, they could maintain and sometimes extend leads and Vinny trusted them, so starters sat 3-4 mins more than they would on other teams.

Clearly Spoelstra didn't trust Miami's backups as much.

Blake at 32.5 MPG was second in the team in MPG to Paul who played 33.4 MPG, and no one else was over 30. If that isn't self explanatory, I don't know what is.

Decline needs context. Adding more scorers and getting less shots but hitting a higher percentage isn't a decline, it's a role adjustment and it's being on a better team. It's the same way all the Celtics or Heat players "declined" when they got together, except with the Clippers it was more spread out.

PPG went down about 1 pt/36, assist rate is up, steals are up, shooting is better, blocks are even up, defensive focus and intensity is better. Biggest thing last season was the decline in rebounding. Everything else isn't an issue for the teams success.

Actually the teams biggest need is defense, it isn't about Blake becoming a HOF scorer, it's about defending like an actual good team. DeAndre Jordan being a high impact defender will be the determinant of how far this team can go in the playoffs, not whether Blake can score a lot of points.

[Sofia]

Og15 doesn't have near enough and1s. Dude is absolute quality across all teams.

Og, I apologise in advance for the notification flood you'll receive, but Clippers board need to start hitting that and1 button for this guy.

[Quake Griffin]

I think you are missing the rationale for Vinny playing him less minutes.

you can't say this


and then say

Convince me.

he played less minutes because we were blowing teams out.
he would miss entire 4th quarters. That's not on me to go find. It's on you to go to basketball reference and click game logs.

[Verballer]

#6 - Los Angeles Clippers

PG - Chris Paul, Darren Collison
SG - J.J. Redick, Jamal Crawford
SF - Jared Dudley, Matt Barnes
PF - Blake Griffin, Byron Mullens
C - DeAndre Jordan, Ryan Hollins
D - Willie Green, Reggie Bullock

Chris Paul said that the Clippers' season "will definitely go as Blake goes." I can't disagree with Chris Paul on this one. This team reminds me a little of the Jazz. Stockton and Malone - Paul and Griffin. Redick and Dudley - Hornacek and Russel. Jordan - Ostertag. Mullens - Okur. It's not a perfect comparison to be sure. But, you get a hint of what the Clippers could become. And that is going to land squarely on Blake Griffin's shoulders. Can he be a hall of fame player? Can he be good enough to build around? I think that's the question that needs to be answered.

Griffin's production has gone down for 2 consecutive years now with his point and rebound production dropping each year. That's not a good sign for a 24 year old. His numbers should be on the incline at this point of his development if he's going to be a franchise player. But, I think there is hope for Blake. He's going to be surrounded by shooters, especially when they run Mullens at 5 (which looks like it could be often to my eye) and have one of the top passers/creators in the league to get him easy looks. Opposing coaches will have some tough decisions to make when they see a lineup of Paul, Redick, Dudley, Griffin, and Mullens. Who do you leave to help defend Griffin in that scenario? It's a much easier decision when Jordan is on the floor. I'm of the belief that with the additional shooting and a new coach that Blake Griffin's numbers and impact are going to exceed most folks expectations. That's why I have the Clippers as the #2 team in the West.

I love the additions the Clippers made this year. Redick, Dudley, Mullens, and Collison are all fantastic additions by my eye; and going from Del Negro to Doc Rivers should be a huge boost as well. I just wish the frontcourt was deep enough to not have to have to list Ryan Hollins. If you have to list Ryan Hollins in your 10 man depth chart you know you are lacking in quality bigs. Maybe a trade or signing is forthcoming. I'd like to think so. It's time to go all in if you are listening Clipper front office.

They need some health, and signing another big that can walk and chew gum at the same time would be a bonus, but, if all goes well I could easily see the Clippers as the West's representatives in the coming year's finals. They will definitely go as far as Blake goes. Time to step up big fella.

Projected record: 56/26

Im sorry JazzFan,I really love your insight but Griffins development has only gone up,not down.
Not only did he have to play off Paul on LESS minutes this year,he also had injury issues which really destroyed his rebounds this year.2 years ago Jordan started playing more and then he took a drop inTRB%
advanced stats wised he's improved really well but his raw stats say otherwise.
Also if the Clips mesh well we are not getting 56 wins again.I predict we win 60 this season :O

[jazzfan1971]

26.3 mpg in the playoffs last year.

You can dress that up however you like. Coaches fault. Injuries. Blowouts. Whatever. But, 26.3 minutes just isn't what I want from my franchise player in the post season.

His per minute production in the regular season may be level, but, his gross production is trending down. The context may be important, but, I'd rather see my franchise guy improving in both gross production and efficiency. And I think he'll trend upwards this year. Especially in his gross numbers.

And I"m hoping when the playoffs come this year he's more of a 39 minute guy than a 26 minute guy.

I'm sorry if that is too superficial. But, sometimes the trees are as important as the forest.

[Quake Griffin]

before i read all of that.

he sat the 4th quarter of game 1...giving him 25 minutes in that game.
and he rolled his ankle in practice before game 5.
so he played 19 minutes in game 5.
he didn't start in game 6 and ended up playing 13 minutes.

outliers...outliers dragging the average down.
this is not complicated stuff. a simple search of "blake griffin baske...." should give u blake's basketball reference page and u can click game logs and piece that together with facts that a forum mod should know about this year's playoffs

trying to get in front of an argument by saying "you can dress that up however you want" isn't valid unless you have an argument to combat the dressing up that would be going on.


he played 35 MPG in the 2012 playoffs btw
do you want to have an actual discussion about Griffin or about how someone on the periphery sees Griffin?
we'll all be here when you want the former.

[Neddy]

sometimes the trees are as important as the forest.

hahaha... no.

[og15]

26.3 mpg in the playoffs last year.

You can dress that up however you like. Coaches fault. Injuries. Blowouts. Whatever. But, 26.3 minutes just isn't what I want from my franchise player in the post season.

His per minute production in the regular season may be level, but, his gross production is trending down. The context may be important, but, I'd rather see my franchise guy improving in both gross production and efficiency. And I think he'll trend upwards this year. Especially in his gross numbers.

And I"m hoping when the playoffs come this year he's more of a 39 minute guy than a 26 minute guy.

I'm sorry if that is too superficial. But, sometimes the trees are as important as the forest.

You should REALLY do a better job with research though, lol

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/may/01 ... n-20130430

He played 26 MPG for the same reason that Rose and Rondo played 0 MPG in the playoffs and Westbrook only played 2 games. Yea, VDN isn't some great coach, but you can't possibly think he's just a super terrible coach and randomly decided to bring his second best player off the bench in game 6 of the playoffs and play him 16.8 MPG in games 5/6 of the post-season

Some of what you're saying doesn't really make sense. Gross production is related to minutes. Gross production won't "improve" if you play less minutes, You might be worried about that because you like the numbers, but I can assure you we aren't too worried about it. Rebounding is the only thing we would care about.

Don't worry we also hope he doesn't severely injure his ankle in practice again

[og15]

Og15 doesn't have near enough and1s. Dude is absolute quality across all teams.

Og, I apologise in advance for the notification flood you'll receive, but Clippers board need to start hitting that and1 button for this guy.

Thanks for the vote of confidence that I am contributing well to the discussion

[Verballer]

26.3 mpg in the playoffs last year.

You can dress that up however you like. Coaches fault. Injuries. Blowouts. Whatever. But, 26.3 minutes just isn't what I want from my franchise player in the post season.

His per minute production in the regular season may be level, but, his gross production is trending down. The context may be important, but, I'd rather see my franchise guy improving in both gross production and efficiency. And I think he'll trend upwards this year. Especially in his gross numbers.

And I"m hoping when the playoffs come this year he's more of a 39 minute guy than a 26 minute guy.

I'm sorry if that is too superficial. But, sometimes the trees are as important as the forest.

It gets to the point where he would destroy his team playing 39 minutes.
He hobbled for those 26 minutes.
Actually looking at it
He averaged above 30 for the first four games BEFORE he got injured.I'm sorry I'd rather have Pippen lead the show than have a hobbled Jordan "will" his way to a 2/4/5 performance.

[Kyle]

Just a pretty awful job and take from Jazzfan on Blake. Glad everyone in ClipperNation is lockstep with me saying everything I would say about the minutes going down and the injuries in the playoffs. Cant debate cold hard facts Jazzy. Blake hasn't regressed at all. Do your research before coming into Clipperland. We arent laker "fans", we actually watch our games and pay attention to the details!