ImageImageImageImageImage

Raps' Official 2013 Offseason Transaction Idea Thread, Pt. 2

Moderators: Morris_Shatford, 7 Footer, DG88, niQ, Duffman100, tsherkin, Reeko, lebron stopper, HiJiNX

User avatar
witnessraps
RealGM
Posts: 10,860
And1: 4,670
Joined: Sep 08, 2010
Location: bruno bandwagon
   

Re: Raps' Official 2013 Offseason Transaction Idea Thread, P 

Post#1361 » by witnessraps » Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:14 pm

Ice102 wrote:
CanadaB-Ball wrote:Just spitballing here, but what about something like this?

Toronto

In: Gordon, Schroeder, 2014 Atlanta 1st rounder (with at least lottery protection)
Out: Gay, Ross, Gray, 2016 NYK 1st, a second-rounder

Charlotte

In: Gay, Ross, 2016 NYK 1st rounder
Out: Gordon, MKG

Atlanta

In: MKG, Gray, second-rounder
Out: Schroeder, 2014 1st rounder

I usually don't do proposals, but I thought this one made some sense. If it doesn't, my apologies.


I like this trade proposal a lot, but I'd change it up a bit to this:

Toronto

In: Gordon, Schroeder
Out: Gay, Ross, Gray, 2016 NYK 1st, a second-rounder

Charlotte

In: Gay, Ross, 2016 NYK 1st rounder, ATL 2014 1st rounder, second rounder
Out: Gordon, MKG

Atlanta

In: MKG, Gray
Out: Schroeder, 2014 1st rounder

Atlanta's 1st would be top-5 protected. They're getting a lot of value with a second overall pick in MKG coming back so they need to give (even if Schroeder looks to be a legit prospect)

Charlotte is giving up a lot, but they get a 2014 pick, a future 1st and a top-tier wing to pair with Jefferson. I think they might not do this trade because MKG is valuable to them, but it's an option.

Toronto doesn't need the future 1st. They do this trade for Schroeder and go in tank mode.

Great trade idea though.


Charlotte wouldn't include MKG in a deal for Rudy I wouldn't think. That's like us trading Jonas for Al-Jeff
Ice102
Banned User
Posts: 830
And1: 207
Joined: Jan 15, 2013

Re: Raps' Official 2013 Offseason Transaction Idea Thread, P 

Post#1362 » by Ice102 » Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:17 pm

Yes, I agree. But with that Jefferson deal, I have no idea how their front office thinks.
Marvin Martian
General Manager
Posts: 9,267
And1: 7,538
Joined: Aug 13, 2012

Re: Raps' Official 2013 Offseason Transaction Idea Thread, P 

Post#1363 » by Marvin Martian » Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:18 am

Val + Derozan + Ross and bargs picks for Joakim Noah and Jimmy Butler

Lowry
Butler
Gay
Amir
Noah
sweetcity
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,772
And1: 1,289
Joined: May 19, 2010

Re: Raps' Official 2013 Offseason Transaction Idea Thread, P 

Post#1364 » by sweetcity » Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:49 pm

Marvin Martian wrote:Val + Derozan + Ross and bargs picks for Joakim Noah and Jimmy Butler

Lowry
Butler
Gay
Amir
Noah


thats (Please Use More Appropriate Word).
Ice102
Banned User
Posts: 830
And1: 207
Joined: Jan 15, 2013

Re: Raps' Official 2013 Offseason Transaction Idea Thread, P 

Post#1365 » by Ice102 » Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:27 pm

Marvin Martian wrote:Val + Derozan + Ross and bargs picks for Joakim Noah and Jimmy Butler

Lowry
Butler
Gay
Amir
Noah


Umm...what?
User avatar
LoveMyRaps
RealGM
Posts: 29,523
And1: 49,836
Joined: Jun 10, 2013
       

Re: Raps' Official 2013 Offseason Transaction Idea Thread, P 

Post#1366 » by LoveMyRaps » Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:32 pm

Marvin Martian wrote:Val + Derozan + Ross and bargs picks for Joakim Noah and Jimmy Butler

Lowry
Butler
Gay
Amir
Noah


BAN.
In Masai We Trust :meditate:
Image
Marvin Martian
General Manager
Posts: 9,267
And1: 7,538
Joined: Aug 13, 2012

Re: Raps' Official 2013 Offseason Transaction Idea Thread, P 

Post#1367 » by Marvin Martian » Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:59 pm

LoveMyRaps wrote:
Marvin Martian wrote:Val + Derozan + Ross and bargs picks for Joakim Noah and Jimmy Butler

Lowry
Butler
Gay
Amir
Noah


BAN.


For what? It works in the trade checker.
User avatar
LoveMyRaps
RealGM
Posts: 29,523
And1: 49,836
Joined: Jun 10, 2013
       

Re: Raps' Official 2013 Offseason Transaction Idea Thread, P 

Post#1368 » by LoveMyRaps » Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:19 pm

Marvin Martian wrote:
LoveMyRaps wrote:
Marvin Martian wrote:Val + Derozan + Ross and bargs picks for Joakim Noah and Jimmy Butler

Lowry
Butler
Gay
Amir
Noah


BAN.


For what? It works in the trade checker.


First of all, no it doesn't.
Second of all, how stupid are you to even suggest this?
In Masai We Trust :meditate:
Image
Ice102
Banned User
Posts: 830
And1: 207
Joined: Jan 15, 2013

Re: Raps' Official 2013 Offseason Transaction Idea Thread, P 

Post#1369 » by Ice102 » Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:20 pm

Why would you give up Val so easily though? Especially with throwing in picks and Ross.
Marvin Martian
General Manager
Posts: 9,267
And1: 7,538
Joined: Aug 13, 2012

Re: Raps' Official 2013 Offseason Transaction Idea Thread, P 

Post#1370 » by Marvin Martian » Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:13 pm

LoveMyRaps wrote:
Marvin Martian wrote:
LoveMyRaps wrote:
BAN.


For what? It works in the trade checker.


First of all, no it doesn't.
Second of all, how stupid are you to even suggest this?



It did when I added a scrub from CHI.

Secondly, I think it's a good deal. Adding 2 positive impact players who were integral pieces to a surprise playoff run last year will dramatically improve this team. It's better than asking Derozan and a second year big man with less than 82 games of experience to perform at an even similar level.

Ice102 wrote:Why would you give up Val so easily though? Especially with throwing in picks and Ross.


IMO picks and Ross isn't giving up much when considering the return. I'd rather trade for an all-star than pray for Val to become one.
Ice102
Banned User
Posts: 830
And1: 207
Joined: Jan 15, 2013

Re: Raps' Official 2013 Offseason Transaction Idea Thread, P 

Post#1371 » by Ice102 » Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:21 pm

Ross and picks, I don't mind.

But Val is projected to be just as good as Noah, maybe better in some ways. If you trade for Noah, fine. But that means you try to win now. He's going to be 29 this year and relies on energy. In other words, not someone that you're going to rely on long-term.

And that roster is not a win-now team.

So what's the next move if you go this route? Do you keep Rudy? And Lowry?
User avatar
JYD
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 32,532
And1: 7,209
Joined: Aug 07, 2001
Location: NOT POSSIBLE! NOT POSSIBLE!

Re: Raps' Official 2013 Offseason Transaction Idea Thread, P 

Post#1372 » by JYD » Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:04 pm

We should be trying to deal with the Bucks. Aug 30, we could deal Lowry for Giannis A straight up...Knight isn't a starting caliber PG for them. We could also try to expand that idea and try to pry Henson from them, using a combo of Amir, Ross, and the picks from the Bargs trade.

If we could deal Lowry for Giannis, MU gets a prospect he likes, and we're now weak at PG, enabling the tank from day one. Then we have time to shop guys like Gay and DD around before the deadline, when more opportunities to deal Gay especially should present themselves.
Ice102
Banned User
Posts: 830
And1: 207
Joined: Jan 15, 2013

Re: Raps' Official 2013 Offseason Transaction Idea Thread, P 

Post#1373 » by Ice102 » Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:33 pm

So, here's my objectives with the following proposals:

-Acquire draft picks that can be used to either a) draft prospects who will be on long-term, effecient rookie-scale contracts and/or b) package together to move up in the draft.

-Rebuild this team and create an identity through tanking for one year and building a team that is strong at every position, two deep. I envision our 'max contracts' being 12 million per position (some spots will have make more, others less - in other words, at Center, we'd have Val making 10 mill/per [long-term thinking] and his backup making 3-4 mill, putting us at about 1-2 mill over and needing to subtract that from another position - yes, writing that does sound awkward)

Our assets:

Amir
DeRozan
Rudy
Lowry (expiring)
Ross (If I'm GM, I'm bringing in guys I want here. I like Ross's potential, but I'm not a fan personally and he wouldn't have been my pick)
Novak, Hansbrough, Daye, Augustine (short-term, efficient contracts)

The trades:

-Amir Johnson and Terrence Ross to OKC for Kendrick Perkins, Jeremy Lamb, Perry Jones, OKC 2014 1st rd pick, DAL 2014 1st rd. pick

OKC needs to shed Perkins' massive contract but will still need a big. We take on Perkins' loaded contract and take it off their hands, save them over 4 million in two years and upgrade their big rotation. That's their pick and Jones. We give them a legit, affordable replacement who plays defence and hustles. That's DAL's pick and Lamb. And for them throwing in Lamb, we need to offer Ross to lessen the blow for them.

-Kyle Lowry, Aaron Gray, three second round picks (NYK x2, TOR) and Perry Jones to MIL for MIL PROTECTED 1st rd. pick and Drew Gooden

Gooden's redundant there and a waste of their cap space. We take him off their hands, throw in Gray to slide in for garbage minutes. Lowry gives them a real point guard this year and is an expiring. They will have ample capspace next summer, so they can either resign him or let him walk. They get back a prospect in Jones to entice that protected 1st out of them.

-Rudy Gay, Cash and Jeremy Lamb to DET for Villanueva, Stuckey and Caldwell-Pope

Detroit wants Rudy. Fact. The offer was on the table without the valuable KCP. Now, under my scenario, we have Lamb. I prefer KCP to Lamb and add Cash to the table to make this offer work for Detroit. They get Rudy for expirings and we get our SG for the future.

-TOR out: DeRozan, Novak, Hansbrough, Daye, and Augustine
TOR in: SAC Future Protected 1st, Hayes, Ben Gordon

CHA in: Salmons, Hansbrough
CHA out: Gordon, CHA 2nd round pick

SAC in: DeRozan, Daye, Augustine, CHA 2nd round pick
SAC out: SAC Future protected 1st rd. pick, John Salmons, Chuck Hayes

Toronto does this for Sacramento's pick. Though it is heavily protected, it is another first and we move on from DeRozan, whom I like as a player and person but don't envision as a long term piece for this team. We give up short term, efficient contracts.
Sacramento does this for DeRozan, pairing him with Cousins and their perimeter scorers. They give up a pick, but it's got great protection on it. They rid themselves of Hayes' contract in the process.
Charlotte does this because Gordon is a nuisance and Salmons and Hansbrough are upgrades and also expirings (like Gordon). For said upgrade, they give up a second round pick.


What we're left with:

Picks:

TOR 2014 1st
OKC 2014 1st
DAL 2014 1st
NYK future 1st
MIL PROTECTED 1st
SAC Future Protected 1st

Prospects:

Caldwell-Pope
Acy
Val

2014 Draft

Guaranteed three first round picks (top-5 with ours most likely, 12-20 with DAL most likely, 25-30 with OKC).
We package DAL and OKC picks with (if needed!) MIL, SAC and NYK future 1sts to move up for a pick in the 5-12 range.

With our pick, I'd look at Julius Randle, barring getting Wiggins.
With the other pick, Kasey Hill (potentially a great pick and roll point guard, with good vision and speed)

Moving Forward:

Val, Acy, Randle, Caldwell-Pope, Hill. Use the 2015 draft to strengthen our bench and our big rotation and use future expiring in a season or two to acquire more picks and more efficient contracts.
User avatar
LoveMyRaps
RealGM
Posts: 29,523
And1: 49,836
Joined: Jun 10, 2013
       

Re: Raps' Official 2013 Offseason Transaction Idea Thread, P 

Post#1374 » by LoveMyRaps » Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:42 pm

I like you Ice102 you make intelligent posts
And you no longer sign off your posts.
In Masai We Trust :meditate:
Image
Ice102
Banned User
Posts: 830
And1: 207
Joined: Jan 15, 2013

Re: Raps' Official 2013 Offseason Transaction Idea Thread, P 

Post#1375 » by Ice102 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:01 am

Thank you, appreciate the compliment my dude.

Any thoughts on the above scenario?
User avatar
CanadaB-Ball
Rookie
Posts: 1,120
And1: 325
Joined: Apr 09, 2011

Re: Raps' Official 2013 Offseason Transaction Idea Thread, P 

Post#1376 » by CanadaB-Ball » Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:06 am

How about this?

Toronto

In: Gordon, Schroeder
Out: Gay, Ross, Buycks, 2016 NYK first-rounder, Option to switch 2016/2017 (whichever they prefer) first-rounder (unprotected), 2 second-round picks

Charlotte

In: Gay, Ross, 2016 NYK first-rounder, 2014 Atlanta first-rounder (top-10 protected), 2 second-round picks
Out: Gordon, MKG

Atlanta

In: MKG, Buycks, 2016 or '17 option to switch first-round picks (unprotected),
Out: Schroeder, 2014 first-round pick (top-10 protected)

Toronto

This is a lot to give up. Admittedly, I think it may be too much. I swapped out Gray for Buycks since Atlanta would need a back-up point-guard more than they would need a back-up centre. I threw in an unprotected option to switch first-rounders in 2016 or '17 to offer additional incentive for Atlanta to part with their 2014 first-rounder. I also added an additional second-rounder to make the deal more enticing for Charlotte. When I look at all that we're giving up, I believe it may be too much, but I'm not sure how I can appease all the teams without parting with what is being parted with. Maybe take out the NYK first-rounder or put top-3/5 protection on the pick-swap? Feel free to voice your opinions.

As for why Toronto may do this; they receive a great point-guard prospect in Schroeder, who would hopefully develop into the perfect (great play-maker, who can make open threes and play fantastic defence) starting point-guard for this team in the future. He may not project to be a game-changer (in the sense that he can put up 20 points a night), but he does project to be a great facilitator and defender. This also clears up some future cap-space, and increases our chances at a top-5 pick.

Charlotte

I know some people don't think Charlotte would part with MKG, but I think this is a great deal for them. It allows them to compete now with Gay, (to a degree) Ross and the pieces they already have in place. It also gives them a number of pieces that can be a big part of their future (Ross, and the myriad of picks). This would potentially (depending on the results of the teams) give Charlotte 3 (or four if Charlotte doesn't do well) first-round picks next year, as well as an additional 2016 first-rounder and two second-round picks. They can use these picks to trade up in the draft, or they could keep them and add a number of quality future depth. They could also go the 'James Harden-like' trade route.

Atlanta

Atlanta receives the SF of their future (something they desperately need). Schroeder looks like a good prospect, but he's not enough to receive MKG straight up, so they add a protected (which ensures they won't miss out on the absolute cream of the crop if their season turns into a disaster) first-round pick. They also receive the option to switch first-round picks with Toronto in either 2016 or '17 (their choice), and a back-up point-guard to replace the minutes Schroeder was going to give them. I think this is a good deal for Atlanta (could potentially be incredible if Toronto happens to be terrible in 2016 or '17).

------------------------------------------------------

I also think these two deals would supplement the above deal.

Trade 1

Toronto

In: Perkins, Lamb, 2014 OKC first-rounder (top-20 protected)
Out: Amir

OKC

In: Amir
Out: Perkins, Lamb, 2014 first-rounder (top-20 protected)

Toronto

Toronto receives two pieces that should be a part of their future (Lamb and the first-rounder), but also have to take on Perkins awful contract. While Perkins does suck, he's okay defensively, so he may be a positive influence on the growth of Jonas in that are of the game (probably a stretch, I know). Toronto does this deal to get Lamb and the first-rounder, while also increasing their chances at getting a top-5 pick.

OKC

Amir is perfect for OKC. He's not a ball dominant player (which is good when you're playing with Westbrook, Durant and Ibaka), and Ibaka and Amir could be a great defensive front-court (which will help in the playoffs). Amir can also contribute offensively (with great efficiency), grab a good deal of rebounds, facilitate the ball reasonably well and is an absolute warrior (which will also come in handy in the playoffs). He's also on a very good deal, which is certainly enticing to a small market like OKC. They also get rid of Perkins' contract. I was going to make it Dallas' pick, but I believe it becomes unprotected at some point, so I didn't feel (if true) that would be fair for OKC.

Trade 2

Toronto

In: Adetokunbo or a 2014 lottery protected first-round pick
Out: Lowry

Milwaukee

In: Lowry
Out: Adetokunbo or 2014 first-rounder

Toronto

They receive a future piece (either the pick or Adetokunbo) and further increase their chances at a top-5 pick.

Houston

They're apparently still interested in competing , in which case Lowry would definitely help them do so. They sacrifice a piece of their future (either Adetokunbo or the pick, whichever they prefer), for a (greatly improved) chance to make the playoffs.

If it turns out Milwaukee isn't interested in competing, Toronto could look to Houston (where Lowry would be a perfect fit) as a team that would trade future pieces to improve their team's present outlook that could use a point-guard like Lowry.

-------------------------------------------------------------

These trades would give the Raptors this roster next year:

Augustin/Schroeder
DeRozan/Lamb/Gordon
Fields/Daye/Adetokunbo
Hansbrough/Acy/Udoh
Valanciunas/Perkins/Gray

And potentially this roster the following year:

Augustin/Schroeder/FA or late first-rounder
DeRozan/Lamb
Top-5 pick or FA or Fields/Adetokunbo/DeRozan
Top-5 pick or FA or Hansbrough/Hansbrough or Acy
Valanciunas/Perkins/FA or late first-rounder

Just for fun, imagine a line-up like this for 2014/2015:

Augustin/Schroeder
DeRozan/Lamb
Wiggins/Adetokunbo/Fields
Favors or another FA/Hansbrough/Acy
Valanciunas/Perkins/Patric Young (2014 late first-rounder)

The other option is to save the cap space that would be spent on Favors or another free-agent, and try and attract a big free-agent like Durant in 2016 (just so everyone knows, he's a free-agent after the 2015/16 season). This scenario would likely also result in another top-10 pick in 2015 (even the roster above is probably bad enough for a lottery pick for one more year) to add another quality piece. That team would then be ready to make a run at the playoffs in 2015/16 and would be considered an up-and-coming team with the cap space to sign a max player (like Durant).

Just take a moment to imagine this line-up in 2016/17:

Schroeder/Tyus Jones (top-10 2015 pick)
Lamb/DeRozan
Wiggins/Adetokunbo/DeRozan
Durant/FA (defense-first type)/Acy
Valanciunas/Young

That is just beyond incredible. Obviously not a realistic scenario (a lot of things would have to go right), but the point is that tanking offers this kind of potential reward; the type of reward that the Raptors current core can't offer.

Heck, even this future line-up (a little more realistic) looks incredible:

Schroeder/2015 draft pick
Lamb/DeRozan
Wiggins/Adetokunbo/DeRozan
Favors/Adetokunbo/Acy
Valanciunas/Young

You could replace Wiggins with Jabari and it still looks incredible. You could also have Randle, Exum, Gordon etc. in there (obviously adjusting the free-agent signings and trades to make it all fit together, which wouldn't be difficult since we'd have both the assets and cap-space to do so in this scenario) and it would still look fantastic.

Please don't think this is what I expect the team to look like in three years, I just thought it would be cool to look at potential scenarios, even the one's that aren't overly realistic. Essentially my point is that, this core simply doesn't offer the potential that rebuilding does in almost any 'tanking' scenario.
Image
Marvin Martian
General Manager
Posts: 9,267
And1: 7,538
Joined: Aug 13, 2012

Re: Raps' Official 2013 Offseason Transaction Idea Thread, P 

Post#1377 » by Marvin Martian » Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:22 am

Ice102 wrote:Ross and picks, I don't mind.

But Val is projected to be just as good as Noah, maybe better in some ways. If you trade for Noah, fine. But that means you try to win now. He's going to be 29 this year and relies on energy. In other words, not someone that you're going to rely on long-term.

And that roster is not a win-now team.

So what's the next move if you go this route? Do you keep Rudy? And Lowry?

Val projecting to be better than Noah is your opinion; not a fact. And I'm not seeing how Noah relies on energy. He has very solid fundamentals skills on both sides of the ball which are reflected in the stats.

What the argument for that roster not being a win now team? Noah and Butler were key pieces on a team that won 45 games last year with no PG, and loul deng as their leading scorer. Put those 2 guys here and the Raps can win just as many games if not more.
DreamTeam09
RealGM
Posts: 17,600
And1: 10,955
Joined: Jan 06, 2009
Location: Scarborough
 

Re: Raps' Official 2013 Offseason Transaction Idea Thread, P 

Post#1378 » by DreamTeam09 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:11 am

Ideally I'd like to get away with fields + Ross + 2 maybe 3picks for Horford.
Image

In Raptor Ball I Trust
User avatar
DarkSaturn
Pro Prospect
Posts: 783
And1: 985
Joined: Jul 14, 2008
     

Re: Raps' Official 2013 Offseason Transaction Idea Thread, P 

Post#1379 » by DarkSaturn » Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:02 am

After watching the two Canada vs. Jamaica games, think Levon Kendall deserves a look to fill out our roster. Guy plays like a Canadian version of Garbajosa. Hustles, rebounds, high-effort all the time, team game, looks to have a decent shot. 6-10, 240lbs, PF.

While a FA center probably would fill out the roster more conventionally, but don't see any issues filling the C position with Val, backed up by Johnson and Hansbrough. Don't think Hansbrough has played much C as a pro, but playing on a team with Hibbert and Mahinmi that's not surprising. Guy has the frame for it.
User avatar
ballislife
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,992
And1: 2,005
Joined: Apr 27, 2010
     

Re: Raps' Official 2013 Offseason Transaction Idea Thread, P 

Post#1380 » by ballislife » Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:16 am

I wouldn't mind bringing in Lou Amundson with a min. contract if we can do it. He'd provide good depth at C. He could backup Valanciunas for 15 mins a night.
Image

Return to Toronto Raptors