CHA/UTA/CLE/PHI

[No Offense]

Those years are over that he made less so who cares...

And I'm the cherry-picker because I mentioned that Varejao scores "about" the same amount of PPG as Young on less shot attempts.

Yes because to you one less shot attempt is less shots and 1 more point is "about the same".

It's close enough.

Notice how I kept referring to Andy's statline 14, 14 and 3? Why didn't you correct me for not saying that it's 14.1, 14.4 and 3.4?

I'm consistent. I'm rounding up and down on players raw stats for the sake of the conversation. I do it with my guy as well as yours.

[sixerswillrule]

You're arguing that your guy is better

I never argued that.

You're arguing that...the guy who plays on the Cavs won't put up the same numbers moving forward. What you are basing this one is beyond me.

HISTORY AND LOGIC. Clearly that is beyond you. Perhaps the third time is the charm:

I'm not saying it isn't possible for him to do it again, because it is, and you may very well end up being right. But any logical person would trust the first 444 games and 11,000 minutes of Varejao's career as opposed to the last 25 games and 900 minutes.

Once again, show me that 25 game stretch where Thad Young even came close to doing what Varejao did last year.

It's not even necessary because the only reasonable conclusions that could be drawn would be in a comparison of a LARGE sample size of Young versus a LARGE sample size of Varejao. Anyway, Young has averaged a PER of 18.5 over the past three seasons and 221 games (you'd have to go back to 08-09 to total that many Varejao games), so it's quite likely that there's a 25 game stretch in there with a PER of 21-22 like Varejao put up. Not gonna bother with it though because again, not necessary.

I'm done here because you're not even processing any of this and putting words in my mouth on top of that, and you'd have to be delusional to think that it's some foregone conclusion that Varejao will reproduce such a ridiculously small sample size relative to his entire career.

[No Offense]

You're arguing that your guy is better

I never argued that.

You're arguing that...the guy who plays on the Cavs won't put up the same numbers moving forward. What you are basing this one is beyond me.

HISTORY AND LOGIC. Clearly that is beyond you. Perhaps the third time is the charm:

I'm not saying it isn't possible for him to do it again, because it is, and you may very well end up being right. But any logical person would trust the first 444 games and 11,000 minutes of Varejao's career as opposed to the last 25 games and 900 minutes.

Once again, show me that 25 game stretch where Thad Young even came close to doing what Varejao did last year.

It's not even necessary because the only reasonable conclusions that could be drawn would be in a comparison of a LARGE sample size of Young versus a LARGE sample size of Varejao. Anyway, Young has averaged a PER of 18.5 over the past three seasons and 221 games (you'd have to go back to 08-09 to total that many Varejao games), so it's quite likely that there's a 25 game stretch in there with a PER of 21-22 like Varejao put up. Not gonna bother with it though because again, not necessary.

I'm done here because you're not even processing any of this and putting words in my mouth on top of that, and you'd have to be delusional to think that it's some foregone conclusion that Varejao will reproduce such a ridiculously small sample size relative to his entire career.

In other words, you concede that Thad Young has never had a 25 game stretch as good as Varejao's.

[HartfordWhalers]

In other words, you concede that Thad Young has never had a 25 game stretch as good as Varejao's.

No, he's pretty clearly saying a small sample would be just that, a small sample.

Since his argument is that a small sample isn't a good basis for judging a player, why would he bother and go look for one to judge another player? The request was on its face silly.

[No Offense]

This reminds me of when Kramer claims that he won the bet with Jerry that he'd create an Egyptian "levels" design in his apartment because he decided he didn't want to do it.

[rjgraca]

PER is a measure of offense--- NOT defense. Young's PER hasn't gotten the 76er's that far in the last 3 seasons.

Young is still the best Tank driver for the 76ers this season.

As stated previously, this is spot on:

I just think that Thad is more of a PF than he is a SF which means the Cavs have absolutely no need for him to begin with. The rest of this argument is superfluous. Not to mention the fact that he has 2 more years of salary.

[No Offense]

I am saying that. Usually players who are 32 and have chronic injury problems won't do that well the next year. Also that stretch of 25 games was one of the best of his life, but it was only 25 games... If it was even 50+ I'd agree with you, but 25 games is no sample size when talking about a 31 year old who exceeded all of his previous stats...

Once again, show me that 25 game stretch where Thad Young even came close to doing what Varejao did last year.

I keep asking you for that, but you consistently bring up hypothetical to me. I want to see this stretch, since you're so positive that it exists.

I'm doing the numbers right now. Chill. It takes time. Also Thad makes a little less every year which adds up.

Is 8 hours enough time to find that 25 game stretch where Thad Youmg was as good as Andy was last year?

[No Offense]

In other words, you concede that Thad Young has never had a 25 game stretch as good as Varejao's.

No, he's pretty clearly saying a small sample would be just that, a small sample.

Since his argument is that a small sample isn't a good basis for judging a player, why would he bother and go look for one to judge another player? The request was on its face silly.

I showed that Andy has vastly improved in his 81 games and these two keep harping on his 25 game season. Which, made me request that they find a 25 game stretch as good as Andy's. I was told that it would be found.

[HartfordWhalers]

PER is a measure of offense--- NOT defense. Young's PER hasn't gotten the 76er's that far in the last 3 seasons.

Young is still the best Tank driver for the 76ers this season.

As stated previously, this is spot on:

I just think that Thad is more of a PF than he is a SF which means the Cavs have absolutely no need for him to begin with. The rest of this argument is superfluous. Not to mention the fact that he has 2 more years of salary.

Philly's been in the playoffs 2 of the last 3 years, and won 10 more games than Cleveland last year with Thad the team's best player. If your argument is that Thad doesn't equal winning, its a pretty horrible argument compared to the Cavs the last 3 seasons.

TheOutlaw's is a fine argument and one I would agree with. But the introduction to it here is really just flawed, wrong and dumb.

[loserX]

PER is a measure of offense--- NOT defense. Young's PER hasn't gotten the 76er's that far in the last 3 seasons.

Kyrie Irving's PER has gotten the Cavs even less far in the last two seasons. And?

Not saying that the Cavs should do this deal (they shouldn't), but the whole "your team is bad therefore all the good players on it must be useless" argument is nonsense, and a Cavs fan should know that.

Young is still the best Tank driver for the 76ers this season.

As stated previously, this is spot on:

I just think that Thad is more of a PF than he is a SF which means the Cavs have absolutely no need for him to begin with. The rest of this argument is superfluous. Not to mention the fact that he has 2 more years of salary.

This part I agree with. The Cavs simply don't need Thad so there's no point in pursuing it.

[eliasrapp98]

Once again, show me that 25 game stretch where Thad Young even came close to doing what Varejao did last year.

I keep asking you for that, but you consistently bring up hypothetical to me. I want to see this stretch, since you're so positive that it exists.

I'm doing the numbers right now. Chill. It takes time. Also Thad makes a little less every year which adds up.

Is 8 hours enough time to find that 25 game stretch where Thad Youmg was as good as Andy was last year?

Sorry. Ended up going out and just got back recently. I really don't feel like proving this to you though. Thad did have a great 25 game stretch, but I don't think a 25 game stretch is a good sample size so it'd be hypocritical for me to use it.

[rjgraca]

PER is a measure of offense--- NOT defense. Young's PER hasn't gotten the 76er's that far in the last 3 seasons.

Kyrie Irving's PER has gotten the Cavs even less far in the last two seasons. And?

Not saying that the Cavs should do this deal (they shouldn't), but the whole "your team is bad therefore all the good players on it must be useless" argument is nonsense, and a Cavs fan should know that.

Young is still the best Tank driver for the 76ers this season.

As stated previously, this is spot on:

I just think that Thad is more of a PF than he is a SF which means the Cavs have absolutely no need for him to begin with. The rest of this argument is superfluous. Not to mention the fact that he has 2 more years of salary.

This part I agree with. The Cavs simply don't need Thad so there's no point in pursuing it.

Not a fan of PER despite Irving have a good one. Irving will become a truely great player when he learns to play defense. Not sure why you have the need to post something obvious.

[rjgraca]

PER is a measure of offense--- NOT defense. Young's PER hasn't gotten the 76er's that far in the last 3 seasons.

Young is still the best Tank driver for the 76ers this season.

As stated previously, this is spot on:

I just think that Thad is more of a PF than he is a SF which means the Cavs have absolutely no need for him to begin with. The rest of this argument is superfluous. Not to mention the fact that he has 2 more years of salary.

Philly's been in the playoffs 2 of the last 3 years, and won 10 more games than Cleveland last year with Thad the team's best player. If your argument is that Thad doesn't equal winning, its a pretty horrible argument compared to the Cavs the last 3 seasons.

TheOutlaw's is a fine argument and one I would agree with. But the introduction to it here is really just flawed, wrong and dumb.

Young has done what in the playoffs that lifted them and how was he the reason that the 76er's where in the playoffs? I guess we will have to wait for this season to see his true value which I suspect is along the line of Antwaan Jamison for the Cavs a couple of years ago. Curious as to why some mods have a need to post the flawed, wrong and dumb either, but since the comment is not specific as to why I will take it as a personal opinion.

[loserX]

PER is a measure of offense--- NOT defense. Young's PER hasn't gotten the 76er's that far in the last 3 seasons.

Kyrie Irving's PER has gotten the Cavs even less far in the last two seasons. And?

Not saying that the Cavs should do this deal (they shouldn't), but the whole "your team is bad therefore all the good players on it must be useless" argument is nonsense, and a Cavs fan should know that.

Young is still the best Tank driver for the 76ers this season.

As stated previously, this is spot on:

<TheOUTLAW's quote snipped>

This part I agree with. The Cavs simply don't need Thad so there's no point in pursuing it.

Not a fan of PER despite Irving have a good one. Irving will become a truely great player when he learns to play defense. Not sure why you have the need to post something obvious.

My point is not that PER is a great stat; it certainly has weaknesses as well as strengths and you're free to take it with a grain of salt. My point is just that "Thad Young's PER hasn't gotten the Sixers far" is a poor argument against his value.

It is perfectly possible for good players to have value despite the fact that their team didn't make the second round of the playoffs or whatever cutoff we choose.

[TheOUTLAW]

I'd agree with that 100 times out of 100 as should anyone that is defending the merits of Varejao. He is the very definition of a player who is better than his stats say.

[rjgraca]

Kyrie Irving's PER has gotten the Cavs even less far in the last two seasons. And?

Not saying that the Cavs should do this deal (they shouldn't), but the whole "your team is bad therefore all the good players on it must be useless" argument is nonsense, and a Cavs fan should know that.



This part I agree with. The Cavs simply don't need Thad so there's no point in pursuing it.

Not a fan of PER despite Irving have a good one. Irving will become a truely great player when he learns to play defense. Not sure why you have the need to post something obvious.

My point is not that PER is a great stat; it certainly has weaknesses as well as strengths and you're free to take it with a grain of salt. My point is just that "Thad Young's PER hasn't gotten the Sixers far" is a poor argument against his value.

It is perfectly possible for good players to have value despite the fact that their team didn't make the second round of the playoffs or whatever cutoff we choose.

I understand the point of those the boosters of PER. The stat by itself is no predictor of team success. I didn't say that Young didn't have value other than he was being over valued for his PER (offensive ability).

This season will be a true indicator of the value of PER with Young being counted on to be a major option. Antwaan Jamison, similar player to Young, for the most part always had good PERs too and that didn't seem to be much of an impact to the Cavs a couple of seasons ago which I suspect will be what will happen to Young this season where those offensive stats won't seem so impressive.

[HartfordWhalers]

The point that people have been trying to make is that saying Young's value will be judged by his team's success when he is on the team with the least talent in the league seems incredibly foolish.

The argument is simplistic at best, and again pretty clearly flawed. But if you insist to stick with it, then you need to apply to to Varejao and not just Young.

Cavs winning percentage with Varejao last season 20%.
Cavs winning percentage without Varejao last season 33%.

Applying you logic, we have seen exactly how valuable Varejao is and that is that he makes teams worse. However, I would argue that that is a dumb argument, when made for both Young and Varejao.

[CoreyGallagher]

I'd agree with that 100 times out of 100 as should anyone that is defending the merits of Varejao. He is the very definition of a player who is better than his stats say.

Not butting into this, however the same can be said of Thad Young.

[No Offense]

I'm doing the numbers right now. Chill. It takes time. Also Thad makes a little less every year which adds up.

Is 8 hours enough time to find that 25 game stretch where Thad Youmg was as good as Andy was last year?

Sorry. Ended up going out and just got back recently. I really don't feel like proving this to you though. Thad did have a great 25 game stretch, but I don't think a 25 game stretch is a good sample size so it'd be hypocritical for me to use it.

I'll take this as a win.

If you don't want to find a 25 game streak as good as 14, 14 and 3 (which you already told me you would do), I beg you to find 82 games as good as Varejao's last 3 years.

[eliasrapp98]

Is 8 hours enough time to find that 25 game stretch where Thad Youmg was as good as Andy was last year?

Sorry. Ended up going out and just got back recently. I really don't feel like proving this to you though. Thad did have a great 25 game stretch, but I don't think a 25 game stretch is a good sample size so it'd be hypocritical for me to use it.

I'll take this as a win.

If you don't want to find a 25 game streak as good as 14, 14 and 3 (which you already told me you would do), I beg you to find 82 games as good as Varejao's last 3 years.

1. I didn't say 14 and 14. I said 17 and 9 or something like that. Also one of those years Andy averaged 8 PPG. Not too good for a guy that isn't a great defender at all.